Should hand holding at the Our Father be a cause for division among the Faithful?

[Rabbititus]

Mass is community public worship. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. If it is not “wrong” among natural family members, it is not wrong in Christian community. Your preference is fine, but has nothing to do with liturgical instructions.

Lux

I never said it was wrong in the Christian Community - I mentioned friends along with family in my post. However it is rude to pressure someone into doing something they might not be comfortable with at such an important time. I consider us all brothers and sisters in Christ, which is why I respect the person next to me by not rudely demanding they take my hand when they may not want to. We can be a family without rigid conformity in all matters.

It’d be like the priest telling everyone that it will now be the norm that everyone hold a missal at a 45 degree angle durring the Gospel reading - even if one doesn’t care to read along and would rather only listen.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I was merely stating that if it is fine for biological family members or friends, it is ok for your larger Christian family—there is no distinction at Mass.

If it is not ok for everyone, then it should not be done as a private thing in community worship.

I said I do agree that no one should be pressured to maintain any position.

Lux

 

[childofmary1143]

My premise is not flawed. Unified posture is instructed. In the spirit of community worship, since handholding is not a abuse (maybe not the best choice, but since no posture is prescribed, it is not an abuse) I personally will go with the manner of worship of the community, unless there is something very wrong.

I agree that no one is to attempt to browbeat anyone into any position at the Lord’s prayer, but it is equally wrong to call a posture an “abuse” when there is nothing wrong with the posture. Since no posture is prescribed, it would be equally wrong to dictate a “folded hands” posture.

Lux

This “hand holding during the Our Father” has been around for many years. I remember Karl Keating discussing this during Catholic Answers radio show a few years back and he specifically stated that even though its not mentioned in the Rubrics that its something we shouldn’t do. I trust Karl to be more knowledgeable about these things than any of us.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

From Archbishop Chaput of Denver, more of an authoriity than Keating, but still not the GIRM
(the USCCB has stated that there is no posture prescribed for the Lord’s Prayer)

The priest stands with his arms outstretched as the prayer begins. The assembly should also stand. There are no options for gestures listed in the General Instruction for this part of the Mass. For many persons, folding their hands during the “Our Father” is the best way to express their prayer. For others, they may hold their hands outstretched. Still others hold hands.

None of these gestures is mandated or forbidden by the Church. So our guiding principles should be respect for the dignity of the Mass, and respect for the freedom of our fellow worshipers.

Lux

 

[childofmary1143]

From Archbishop Chaput of Denver, more of an authoriity than Keating, but still not the GIRM
(the USCCB has stated that there is no posture prescribed for the Lord’s Prayer)

Lux

Thanks for that quote Lux but can you tell me where you found it?

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

sure—sorry I was short on time before…

ARTICLE

AND FROM THE USCCB

Orans

Many Catholics are in the habit of holding their hands in the “Orans” posture during the Lord’s prayer along with the celebrant. Some do this on their own as a private devotional posture while some congregations make it a general practice for their communities.
Is this practice permissible under the current rubrics, either as a private practice not something adopted by a particular parish as a communal gesture?

No position is prescribed in the present Sacramentary for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer.

Email us at bcl@usccb.org
Committee on the Liturgy | 3211 4th Street, N.E., Washington DC 20017-1194 | (202) 541-3000 © USCCB. All rights reserved.

I realize this is not hand holding, but it is saying that no posture is prescribed. If anyone says the instructions forbid handholding or the orans posture, it must also follow that the folded hands posture is forbidden.

Lux

 

[ChristianVet]

It sounds like you are the one being divisive! Why would you care if this family holds hands or not?

If you want to do so, fine, but why try and force someone else?

Do you feel that supposed ‘sign of unity’ a stronger sign when someone is made uncomfortable is they don’t do it?

It was my family. It was my mother.

 

[ChristianVet]

An earlier poster said we are not there for community but for worship only.

Do you really believe that? I think we are there for both. Because think about it. We could “worship” at home by ourselves, albeit we would not have the blessed sacrament.

I think we are there to Worship as Community.

Besides, aren’t we suppose to obey our priests and bishops?

 

[adrift]

An earlier poster said we are not there for community but for worship only.

Do you really believe that? I think we are there for both. Because think about it. We could “worship” at home by ourselves, albeit we would not have the blessed sacrament.

I think we are there to Worship as Community.

Besides, aren’t we suppose to obey our priests and bishops?

What do you mean by community? I think the person meant by community is socializing. We do worship as a community united in the worship of God. We are to obey lawful commands. No we are not to obey blindly. If the priest asks us to do that which is contrary to the Church, than which is true obedience obeying the priest or the Church?

 

[estesbob]

No.

 

[Walking_Home]

sure—sorry I was short on time before…

ARTICLE

AND FROM THE USCCB
Orans

Many Catholics are in the habit of holding their hands in the “Orans” posture during the Lord’s prayer along with the celebrant. Some do this on their own as a private devotional posture while some congregations make it a general practice for their communities.
Is this practice permissible under the current rubrics, either as a private practice not something adopted by a particular parish as a communal gesture?

No position is prescribed in the present Sacramentary for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer.

I realize this is not hand holding, but it is saying that no posture is prescribed. If anyone says the instructions forbid handholding or the orans posture, it must also follow that the folded hands posture is forbidden.
Lux

---

It is not prescribed that we can stick our fingers in our ears, up our nose, in our neighbors ears/nose. So are we then free to do whatever our own inclinations lead. When the GIRM is silent we fall back on tradition and that tradition is folding our hands in prayer.

By the way—the orans is for the priest–not for the laity. It is a priestly action —which we are not to imitate.

By the way

 

[THurifer2]

An earlier poster said we are not there for community but for worship only.

Do you really believe that? I think we are there for both. Because think about it. We could “worship” at home by ourselves, albeit we would not have the blessed sacrament.

I think we are there to Worship as Community.

Besides, aren’t we suppose to obey our priests and bishops?

The lords prayer is a vertical prayer…not a horizontal prayers…some think that holding hands is a sign of unity…the Mass already has a provision in it for unity and that is called the sign of peace (shaking hands etc.) Holding hands during the our father is an unapproved by the vatican and Sacred Congregation for the Discipline of the Sacraments …it is an innovation that changes the meaning of the lords prayer during Mass and is creates a repetitive act of unity which was implemented into the Mass via the exchange of the signe of peace (kiss of peace). The orans posture is reserved for the priest…If this innovation of holding hands could have been somthing else but it came from protestantism. COuld you imagine if we all stood on our heads instead of held hands…Both actions are not in the ruberics and not from the magesterium of the church. I refuse to do it.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

---

It is not prescribed that we can stick our fingers in our ears, up our nose, in our neighbors ears/nose. So are we then free to do whatever our own inclinations lead. When the GIRM is silent we fall back on tradition and that tradition is folding our hands in prayer.

This is personal interpretation, and not a valid argument. Handholding has been around for quite a while, and would have been addressed if the CDW felt it is wrong. The foolish comparisons which you made are also not valid.

By the way—the orans is for the priest–not for the laity. It is a priestly action —which we are not to imitate.

Another personal opinion, which has no merit. The USCCB did not say this when asked directly. Orans is just as legitimate a prayer posture as folded hands.

Lux

 

[Neil_Anthony]

When you hold a non-relative’s hand I think that means you’re dating. (usually)

 

[Walking_Home]

This is personal interpretation, and not a valid argument. Handholding has been around for quite a while, and would have been addressed if the CDW felt it is wrong. The foolish comparisons which you made are also not valid.

Another personal opinion, which has no merit. The USCCB did not say this when asked directly. Orans is just as legitimate a prayer posture as folded hands.

Lux

---

Hand holding has been around because some laity, priests and bishops have taken it upon themselves to take liberties with the Mass. The comparisons are not foolish–since the GIRM is silent–they are as “valid” as the hand holding.

The only ones directed to do the orans is the priest–not the laity. We are not to be “mini priests” by imitating the priests.

 

[theweeper]

When you hold a non-relative’s hand I think that means you’re dating. (usually)

 

[Mary_ann_R]

Maybe someone can help me out with this issue of hand holding during the Our Father. I know it seems to be a huge bone of contention with many Catholics.

Our parish priest, God bless him, has a very difficult job. He is trying to bring together, subtlely, to warring factions within our parish – the far left and the far right.

Now, I know the reasons most believe there should be no hand holding during the Our Father at Mass, and it makes sense to me on some level. However, our Pastor came on board when most of the parish was still using this practice.

He announced several months ago, that it would be the “standard” practice at our parish to hold hands during the Our Father. So in obedience, I went along trying not to show any dismay. So far, as a parish, its been okay.

But I wonder if all the hallaballoo about it is worth it. Last night family came in from out of town to see my son make his Confirmation – at the Our Father I naturally reached over to hold my own mother’s hand, and she refused to hold my hand. Finally, she did, but looked disturbed about it.

Why has this issue become so divisive?

One of the priests in our diocese explained the reason for not holding hands during the Our Father as a representation of unity between Jesus and the people, not unity between the people and each other.

 

[adrift]

This is personal interpretation, and not a valid argument. Handholding has been around for quite a while, and would have been addressed if the CDW felt it is wrong. The foolish comparisons which you made are also not valid.

Another personal opinion, which has no merit. The USCCB did not say this when asked directly. Orans is just as legitimate a prayer posture as folded hands.

Lux

I disagree with your assessment. The GIRM is a positive document that is a fact. It is not a matter of interpretation. It states what can be done. If it tried to do otherwise, I can just imagine the size it would be trying to eliminate unwanted behavior. Walking Home was absolutely correct. I do believe that you should not make judgments by saying it was foolish. That is a personal attack and it was unwarranted and did not add to your opinion.
WH is also right about the orans posture.

 

[katy]

The thing that really bothers me is the pressure to hold hands in many parishes. The priest is even up on the altar holding the server’s hands. I really, really don’t want to and resent the social pressure to do so and the hostile looks down the nose if I don’t. It was one of the reasons I went to a Presbyterian church for almost 10 years (wrong, I know, but I finally came back). They were friendly and welcoming without being physically aggressive about it.

 

[adrift]

The thing that really bothers me is the pressure to hold hands in many parishes. .

Many are just being polite and don’t want to leave you out. I don’t feel bad when I don’t hold their hand. They don’t really mean to pressure you. They take it for granted that you want to hold their hand:shrug: