Should homosexual acts be illegal from a Catholic & Government perspective?

[andrewstx]

The law in Texas should have been struck down for violation of the 14th amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America by making an act criminal if committed by one group, but not another, it was equivalent to making fornication illegal only if you weren’t white.

It was, by the Supreme court no less.

 

[Fairwinds]

It was, by the Supreme court no less.

Lawrence v. Texas

 

[fix]

I wouldn’t have a problem with making sodomy illegal for everyone “gay” or straight

We used to have laws that promoted morality and protected the common good. There is nothing contrary to Church teaching that would prohibit a just anti sodomy law. The Church has endorsed them throughout history.

 

[Fairwinds]

We used to have laws that promoted morality and protected the common good. There is nothing contrary to Church teaching that would prohibit a just anti sodomy law. The Church has endorsed them throughout history.

so how far would you go to enforce or investigate anti-sodomy laws? would you support the idea of a Strike Team to break down doors in a private residence to arrest a couple on Suspicion of Sodomy based on a tip from a peeping tom?

F/

 

[Jessie5000]

It is not moral, especially the death penalty. Should we also make it illegal to lie and prove the death penalty? The gays have suffered from the law before - it was simply persecution.

 

[fix]

It is not moral, especially the death penalty. Should we also make it illegal to lie and prove the death penalty? The gays have suffered from the law before - it was simply persecution.

It is moral, depending on the law. There is no right to unnatural behavior.

 

[fix]

so how far would you go to enforce or investigate anti-sodomy laws? would you support the idea of a Strike Team to break down doors in a private residence to arrest a couple on Suspicion of Sodomy based on a tip from a peeping tom?

F/

We have laws right now that are not enforced in every case or with the same amount of vigor. Why must any law be enforced the exact same way when it is not so currently?

 

[Fairwinds]

We have laws right now that are not enforced in every case or with the same amount of vigor. Why must any law be enforced the exact same way when it is no so currently?

the question was whether you’d support the idea of a Strike Team to break down doors in a private residence to arrest a couple on Suspicion of Sodomy based on a tip from a peeping tom.

your response is an evasion, I’m not asking about raiding drug labs or tax evaders.

or maybe its not an evasion, since your now appear to concede that there’s some right more important that preventing sodomy. because if prosecuting sodomites is that critical to your view, then SWAT teams to invade homes on tips from peepers is not much of a price to pay. right?

F/

 

[fix]

the question was whether you’d support the idea of a Strike Team to break down doors in a private residence to arrest a couple on Suspicion of Sodomy based on a tip from a peeping tom.

If that is all the information available to me then probably I would not. But, how is that relevant to whether particular laws are just? I am sure certain police agencies use those tactics for other crimes that do not warrant those tactics in my view but that does not invalidate the law.

your response is an evasion, I’m not asking about raiding drug labs or tax evaders.

I am not evading anything I am pointing out right now how things work. We do not judge the merits of a particular law based on how particular agencies use, or abuse, their authority.

or maybe its not an evasion, since your now appear to concede that there’s some right more important that preventing sodomy. because if prosecuting sodomites is that critical to your view, then SWAT teams to invade homes on tips from peepers is not much of a price to pay. right?

F/

No, that is not what I am saying. That is how you want to re-frame the issue to make a false point. Whether a law is just or not is not based on how particular agencies enforce the law.

 

[Fairwinds]

If that is all the information available to me then probably I would not. But, how is that relevant to whether particular laws are just? I am sure certain police agencies use those tactics for other crimes that do not warrant those tactics in my view but that does not invalidate the law…

thanks. you’ve conceded that the anti-sodomy law isn’t important enough to enforce all the time. the police will raid drug labs, or a place where there’s a kidnap victim, or even a domestic dispute on a tip from a witness. so anti-sodomy laws are less important, as you see it, from those crimes. I’m just trying to get a perspective on how important this is to you.

F/

 

[fix]

thanks. you’ve conceded that the anti-sodomy law isn’t important enough to enforce all the time. the police will raid drug labs, or a place where there’s a kidnap victim, or even a domestic dispute on a tip from a witness. so anti-sodomy laws are less important, as you see it, from those crimes. I’m just trying to get a perspective on how important this is to you.

F/

Well, do the police generally commit armed raids for non violent crimes? I fail to see your point at all?

 

[Regular_Atheist]

We used to have laws that promoted morality and protected the common good. There is nothing contrary to Church teaching that would prohibit a just anti sodomy law. The Church has endorsed them throughout history.

By who’s standards? The Catholic Church doesn’t own the USA, I’m sure.

 

[Fairwinds]

Well, do the police generally commit armed raids for non violent crimes? I fail to see your point at all?

you explained, at least by omission, the relative unimportance of anti-sodomy laws. about equal with other non-violent offenses. I think we both agree that the OP has overstated his case relating to the government’s interest in suppressing sodomy.

F/

 

[ZRaffles]

It is moral, depending on the law. There is no right to unnatural behavior.

You are so right.

So I can kill you for driving a car, then? Dying your hair?

What **** logic.

 

[fix]

you explained, at least by omission, the relative unimportance of anti-sodomy laws. about equal with other non-violent offenses. I think we both agree that the OP has overstated his case relating to the government’s interest in suppressing sodomy.

F/

I did not say they were unimportant. You are saying that. Is the import only determined by use of armed raids?

I do not think he overstated his case. He asked a question.

The answer is there is nothing unjust about anti sodomy laws if written in conformity with the moral law.

 

[fix]

You are so right.

So I can kill you for driving a car, then? Dying your hair?

What **** logic.

Why would any rational person think the natural moral law says dying hair or driving is prohibited?

 

[fix]

By who’s standards? The Catholic Church doesn’t own the USA, I’m sure.

The USA had plenty of anti sodomy laws up until 10 years ago. Did the Church run the country back then?

 

[Regular_Atheist]

The USA had plenty of anti sodomy laws up until 10 years ago. Did the Church run the country back then?

No, but you were making a case for sodomy laws based completely on your religious beliefs.

 

[ngill09]

Why would any rational person think the natural moral law says dying hair or driving is prohibited?

Ever been to Amish country?

 

[marymary1975]

I agree that it shouldn’t be illegal. As it has been said before it is imposible to enforce and it would be extremely expensive for the State. Also, as someone else said when States start to try to regulate every aspect of.morality it can be problematic and usually that becomes one step away from having an oppressive government.

With regard to Ghana, which is the specific country the OP is talking I want to clarify something. While I don’t agree with Ghana’s law because OS inhumane and extremist the reasons for it have to do more with a concept of national identity. Let me explain, both African countries and latinoamerica have suffered over Americans and Europeans trying to go to their land and impose their culture over them. People in Africa are very different to the US, the culture is Completely and radically different and the beliefs people have are different to the ones Americans have. For example individual liberties while very important for Americans are not that important for them.because they believe the common good is more important so people should sacrifice.their individual liberties for the common good. When it comes to homosexuality, that is so uncommon in Africa that is seen by many as Americanism, is something they hardly know so they believe is a part of American culture that it is being imposed on them. Add to that the fact that the IBD and the IFIS .before lending money to 3rd world countries require them to pass specific laws. Usually there is major pressure against these countries to pass these laws which tend to be unpopular so again people feel those are pressures to impose foreign culture and destroy theirs. This was what happened with Ghana. They were required to pass a law to legalize homosexuality by the BID and having a radical as president his immediate response was to pass the law condemneing homosexuals with death penalty. Again I am against what they are doing probably of it wouldn’t have been for the internatiomal pressure to shovel.Homosexuality into every country’s throat that law wouldn’t have been passed.