Should homosexual men be allowed to be priests?

[felra]

Father Baker certainly has a definite view of the subject–and I’m afraid it’s led him to some empty speculation.

On the speculation side, his assertion that sexual complentarity is the basis for comprehension of complentary otherness is absurd and unreasoned. You may certainly take the metaphor of marriage as a symbol of the union between the church and the priest, but then to assume that there is a sexual element to a relationship with the body of Christ

(or a hypostatized institution) that is, as such, best understood by heterosexuals is taking the metaphor to something of an extreme.

And the assertion that homosexual celibacy is qualitatively different from heterosexual celibacy is also unreasoned–what is the basis for this assertion? He doesn’t seem to say.

Besides expressing your personal opinion to discount what Fr. Baker has to say, what information, evidence, source do you counter offer to support your contention that “sexual complentarity is the basis for comprehension of complentary otherness is absurd and unreasoned” and “the assertion that homosexual celibacy is qualitatively different from heterosexual celibacy is also unreasoned”? I prefer to trust the credentials of Fr. Baker thank you: The Rev. Andrew R. Baker, ***a priest of the Diocese of Allentown, Pa., is on the staff of the Congregation for Bishops in Rome. ***

Jesus Christ has an ordered heterosexual orientation.

**2332 *Sexuality ***affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others. (CCC)

**2360 **Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. (CCC)

1548 In the ecclesial service of the ordained minister, it is Christ himself who is present to his Church as Head of his Body, Shepherd of his flock, high priest of the redemptive sacrifice, Teacher of Truth. This is what the Church means by saying that the priest, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, acts in persona Christi Capitis:23

It is the same priest, Christ Jesus, whose sacred person his minister truly represents. Now the minister, by reason of the sacerdotal consecration which he has received, is truly made like to the high priest and possesses the authority to act in the power and place of the person of Christ himself (virtute ac persona ipsius Christi).24 (CCC)

If “prudent doubt” is based on nothing more than a speculation regarding the "possible

simultaneous manifestation" of certain behaviors based solely on the admission of an unexpressed SSA, for instance, then the concept of prudent doubt is spurious. Prudent doubt must be based on more than vain speculation.
See my previous post for a glimpse of some research into the co-morbidty factors associated with the disorder of SSA.

To my knowledge, I do not have an addictive personality, but alcohol addiction runs in my family. If I went into a bar and was denied a drink based solely on the fact that alcholism runs in my family and not based on any documented predilection to abuse alcohol or other substances on my part, I would be upset. And few people could blame me.

You are comparing apples and oranges. There is absolutely no empirical evidence to substantiate the claim that there is a genetic cause “runs in the family” for SSA (unlike Type I and Type II alcoholism).

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

felra:

Besides expressing your personal opinion

to discount what Fr. Baker has to say, what information, evidence, source do you counter offer to support your contention that “sexual complentarity is the basis for comprehension of complentary otherness is absurd and unreasoned”

Felra, I don’t have time right know to respond to all of your post(s), but I wanted to respond to this.

What I am saying here appears, to me at least, to be something like common sense. You do not need to have or desire a sexual relationship with a woman in order to know that there is a difference between male and female or understand gender complementarity. What we are talking about is purely relational and need not have anything to do with the sexual. The recognition of the complementary Other does not necessarily need to have gender or sexuality as it’s basis or root, though gender is, in fact, a ready symbol for the recognition of such complementarity. It is this symbolic aspect of gender that allows many male mystics to characterize themselves as female (or use feminine imagery for themselves) when describing their love for Christ and their desire for intimacy with him.

Fr. Baker’s rationale, however, would have us believe that complementarity can only be rightly understood in sexual terms–you must be heterosexual in order to understand it. My argument is that this reduces the value of male and female, masculine and feminine to mere sexual complementarity and ignores the greater meaning of male and female both within a larger socio-cultural context and within the context of the process of individuation. He effectively denies the role of the male and female in psychology and in culture and limits it to the bedroom. Male and female are reduced to the biological and procreative realities to which they partly refer. To use this logic, to me, would mean that the mystics who play so often with gender symbolism are actually not using gender as a symbol (it’s impossible in this scheme of understanding) and are actually expressing a sublimated desire for gender reassignment in order to more fully (read sexually) understand the complementarity of Christ and the soul. To me, this seems reductive and ridiculous. In short the recognition of complementary Otherness does not necessarily need to have a sexual element in order to be understood.

And for the record, Fr. Baker’s credentials do not protect him from drawing bad conclusions when he is speaking or writing as an individual.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!

 

[Julian_Peters]

Thank you to all those who have participated in this discussion. This thread is now closed.