Should I be friends with homosexuals?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I would like you to show me where, exactly, that the Catholic church teaches that homosexual sins are worse than any other sexual sin.
Any sin is bad, as it seperates us from God. Being a homosexual is difficult enough, and people who espouse horrible ideas like you make it even more difficult.
To be honest, I am not sure, as a heterosexual person, if I would want your friendship either.

I believe the OP has been insincere in his posting. This has obviously gone off the rails onto the ridiculous so I really hesitate to post this but…

catholic.com/qa/what-are-sins-that-cry-to-heaven-for-vengeance-and-sins-against-the-holy-spirit

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I meant that the average number of homosexual partners a homosexual has is 300. That was what was in my college textbook, it is in Social Problems classes textbooks in college.

Here is just one website that lists some studies.
carm.org/statistics-homosexual-promiscuity

It has now become obvious you have never befriended a gay person. Ever.

 

[at9009]

You say somethings like it is not their choice to be homosexual, you mention it is not their choice to have homosexual feelings. What do you mean by homosexual feelings? Do you mean lust or covetousness? Those are choices of the free will, those sins are full of choices that are full of ingratitude, evil, and presumption and direct disobedience to God, it is saying “I will not serve you God, I prefer sin over you God.” That is a choice. No one makes me sin, biology certainly doesn’t make me sin. See, if it wasn’t a choice then it the Catholic Church would not call them sins. These sins like all sins are a choice. No one makes me do them, biology certainly doesn’t cause me to lust or covet, biology doesn’t make me have sex, that is a free choice. I freely choose to not have heterosexual sex, and I also freely choose to not have homosexual sex. All that is a choice. Do you think you don’t have a choice??? Now that being said, I think our free will is not as free as most people think it is. It takes grace to get out of inclinations to sin and on the road to holiness. But, that too is a choice, I can choose to go to God or not. All that involves a choice. Yes, grace does lead one to choose God, but it is still a choice.

I would probably homeschool my children if I had any. I would definitely choose homeschool over boarding school. That too would be my choice, and you would have no right to infringe on it, lol! Someone who doesn’t parent their children away from sexual sins, that goes for all sexual sins, but especially one as absolutely evil as homosexuality is not being a good parent. See, I wouldn’t want my child to go to hell, I would want them to go to heaven. A person who lives the homosexual lifestyle, having tons of homosexual sex is seriously gravely sinning.

There was a study, I am sure you are familiar with already. It said that the number of homosexual partners a homosexual has in their lifetime was 300. Some have 500 partners and the bottom 10% only have 100 partners in their lifetime. That is a major sexually disordered problem. And homosexual marriages don’t work either, 99% end up in divorce or they have plural sex partners in marriage. Gay men never want a truly monogamous homosexual marriage, they want tons of other sexual partners, well cause that sin is hugely disordered and it doesn’t work out for them.

You are kinda playing the change the definition of word game to fit your argument which is a rather counterproductive.

I’ve read StudentMI’s post and my post have clearly and concisely stated that Church teaching has said and always will say that homosexual acts (defined as lust or physical actions) are sinful and are objectively disordered meaning there is no scenario in which expression of the acts are acceptable.

In most people’s definitions, when one says homosexual, it is generally meant as a person who is exclusively attracted to others of the same sex. It does not reflect any worldview or actions. I mean even some of the Vatican documents use the world homosexual. Experiencing attractions to the same sex is not sinful and in the VAST MAJORITY of cases, is not a choice. You are inappropriately by your poor wording and lacking on preciseness implying that a person is sinning for having attractions which is NOT and HAS NEVER been Catholic teaching. If someone ever expresses that view than basically the entire gospel is worthless because they person is implying that to be tempted is to sin which has no backing by scripture or tradition. You are correct that it is your choice to not to have heterosexual sex or to lust after an opposite sex person. But tell me, did you choose to have that temptation? No one (in 99.999%) of cases choose their temptations. We can only choose how to react to them. There is no sin in temptation. Your lack of precise wording honestly shows that you despite having gay friends/ex-friends you have not dealt deeply on this subject but rather just have been making empty assumptions.

What we do know that God does not promise to remove our crosses or temptations (He can in some cases but often doesn’t). HOWEVER, He promises we will not be tempted beyond what we can bear, we have the Holy Spirit to strengthen us, and He provides us an out to flee our temptations. Also by the Grace of God we have the ability to receive Christ every mass via the Eucharist (when one is able to and in a state of Grace) to strengthen us and we have access to the Sacrament of Confession when needed (a tremendous grace).

All of your posts including about having a kid who is a homosexual implies lack of charity of the homosexual person and assumes always that they are deeply sin simply because when they are tempted sexually it’s of someone of the same sex and not an opposite sex person (you should read this article as well: spiritualfriendship.org/2015/03/29/the-self-defeating-sexualization-of-gay-and-same-sex-attracted-christians/). You are not seeing the individual but rather seeing a person solely as the sin they are tempted to. By the view of sending your kid to boarding school if they were gay, you are implying that the child is nothing more than a problem to be fixed to be banished and hidden till the attractions are gone and they are then ‘deemed acceptable’ to rejoin society. Furthermore, since there are numerous stories of both Christian and non-Christian LGBT/ssa people who are disowned from their families, viewed as nothing more than a black sheep, put through abusive ‘orientation change’ methods simply for having attraction not even acting on them, your entire attitude shows rather blatant ignorance on the topic.

I would highly recommend reading various sources from celibate gay/ssa people like Wesley Hill, Ron Belgau, and Eve Tushnet. The blog spiritualfriendship.org is also a good source.

 

[at9009]

I meant that the average number of homosexual partners a homosexual has is 300. That was what was in my college textbook, it is in Social Problems classes textbooks in college.

Here is just one website that lists some studies.
carm.org/statistics-homosexual-promiscuity

Just an FYI the website carm is not a reputable or acceptable source for anything as they already distort and present mistruths or false truths as fact.

From the website: carm.org/roman-catholicism

They intentionally lie and misunderstand the basic core teaching of the Catholic Church to depict it as not being ‘true Christians.’

carm.org/transubstantiation here is where they deny the real prescence of Christ in the Eucharist

It should be obvious to anyone who believes the word of God that the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation is not biblical. For the reasons listed above, we urge that Roman Catholics recognize that Jesus Christ died once for all, and that there is no need to participate in a ritual where His re-sacrifice is practiced.

So I recommend never using that worthless site here because they views are not worth listening too. It’s ironic that they view they can call the Catholic Church and Orthodox church as not Christian considering without the tradition and establishment of the early church we would not have biblical canon let alone any number of positions against the early heresies.

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

I’m gay. You can be my friend.

Now seriously, as a chaste and very Catholic but gay man, practically all my friends are gay. None of them is an actual Catholic, although many pretend they still are (the “I believe in God not in religion” ilk).

I am so strong in my faith and comfortable in my chastity (and in no way an apologetical featherweight if I may say so), I have no problem with their friendship. I preach by example… and they cannot now say chastity is impossible.

Bendito sea Dios.

 

[billcu1]

It has now become obvious you have never befriended a gay person. Ever.

As they say, “Please don’t feed the Trolls.”

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Just an FYI the website carm is not a reputable or acceptable source for anything as they already distort and present mistruths or false truths as fact.

From the website: carm.org/roman-catholicism

They intentionally lie and misunderstand the basic core teaching of the Catholic Church to depict it as not being ‘true Christians.’

carm.org/transubstantiation here is where they deny the real prescence of Christ in the Eucharist

So I recommend never using that worthless site here because they views are not worth listening too. It’s ironic that they view they can call the Catholic Church and Orthodox church as not Christian considering without the tradition and establishment of the early church we would not have biblical canon let alone any number of positions against the early heresies.

I’ve met Matt Slick personally. His daughter as well.
And I’ve suspected he has come onto this site several times under false pretenses. Also, some of his followers from CARM.

 

[babochka]

One lady I listen to on a pod cast pointed out that Jesus did sit with publicly known sinners. But he didn’t go to their table, they came to where He was eating. They wanted to be His friend, and learn from Him.
.

I think the lady was wrong.

Zacchaeus the Tax Collector
19 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “**He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”
**
8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

 

[Vonsalza]

To the question posted in the thread title:

Yes.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I think the lady was wrong.

I get the feeling those who have the same attitude as the OP, will say that the fact Jesus went to dine with Zach doesn’t change anything because Jesus knew he was repentant already, “but he never went to dine with UNrepentant sinners, so we shouldn’t either!”

However the Bible is silent as to whether Zach had repented at the time he went to see Jesus, or did so AFTER Jesus spoke to him. Though of course you could argue Jesus knew he would repent.

I am getting the same troll-y vibe from the OP as many others now, though. Actually I started to get that vibe around the time he stated he didn’t want to be hanging out with homosexuals when God decided to strike them down and insinuated they were possessed by the Devil.

 

[michael7777]

I’m gay. You can be my friend.

Now seriously, as a chaste and very Catholic but gay man, practically all my friends are gay. None of them is an actual Catholic, although many pretend they still are (the “I believe in God not in religion” ilk).

I am so strong in my faith and comfortable in my chastity (and in no way an apologetical featherweight if I may say so), I have no problem with their friendship. I preach by example… and they cannot now say chastity is impossible.

Bendito sea Dios.

Well obviously you are a repentant of your homosexual sins, if you ever had any. I obviously would love to be your friend.

 

[michael7777]

Just an FYI the website carm is not a reputable or acceptable source for anything as they already distort and present mistruths or false truths as fact.

From the website: carm.org/roman-catholicism

They intentionally lie and misunderstand the basic core teaching of the Catholic Church to depict it as not being ‘true Christians.’

carm.org/transubstantiation here is where they deny the real prescence of Christ in the Eucharist

So I recommend never using that worthless site here because they views are not worth listening too. It’s ironic that they view they can call the Catholic Church and Orthodox church as not Christian considering without the tradition and establishment of the early church we would not have biblical canon let alone any number of positions against the early heresies.

I didn’t read that site to find out more what they said, only I was looking for studies to show that yes, active homosexuals (those engaging in sins) are much more promiscuous. I really did take a sociology class and in that class and book, it did state the facts that I listed. I specifically remember them saying (by PhD’s) that the average number of partners a homosexual has is 300. I didn’t make that fact up, I researched this years ago, and yes, those studies in my textbook were correct and accurate. It is common knowledge that most homosexuals are very promiscuous… I am not saying everybody fits in that group, but obviously that is the average.

 

[michael7777]

I’ve met Matt Slick personally. His daughter as well.
And I’ve suspected he has come onto this site several times under false pretenses. Also, some of his followers from CARM.

Sorry for using that site, shouldn’t have. I should have researched that site more, sorry.
I am not Matt Slick, I am Catholic.

 

[michael7777]

Also, the Baltimore Catechism #4 does say that we are to avoid bad company when it teaches on the 6th commandment. And yes, unrepentant homosexual sinners (Sodomites) are bad company. Ok. And yes, we should even avoid the bad company of unrepentant heterosexual sinners, and all grave sinners for that matter. Why? Because they corrupt good morals.

No more need to discuss this, I greatly have benefited from it, and I hope anyone who read it did too. Your comments helped me understand the situation better. Thanks to everyone!

And yes, I love everyone, including active unrepentant homosexuals. I also love all my old friends who are unrepentant in this sin. Maybe they have already repented of it, I don’t know, I sure hope they have.

And I made it clear that just cause you are attracted to the same sex, doesn’t mean you are sinning. I am attracted to women, doesn’t mean I am sinning. Temptations too, are not sins, they are only temptations. I already stated that.

Now it really is true that the more serious the sin, and you overcome that sin, well there is more merit before God. So a homosexual (Sodomite) overcoming his sin, well there is more merit than overcoming my heterosexual sins.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I am still waiting for a reference, from the Church that says homosexual sins are worse than heterosexual sins.
Will you please provide that information.

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

Stay tuned to our next episode:

I am Jewish. Can I be friends with people who eat bacon?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Stay tuned to our next episode:

I am Jewish. Can I be friends with people who eat bacon?

Yes. However, if you own a deli, you must make ham sandwiches cut into swastikas for a nazi wedding…

Let’s get Godwin’s law out of the way early so we can continue…

 

[victrolatim]

. I specifically remember them saying (by PhD’s) that the average number of partners a homosexual has is 300.

Just because somebody has a Ph.D does not make them correct. Use some basic logic here. There are not that many same gendered active homosexuals in an average city to make that statistic viable. I smell manure. This thread needs to have the plug pulled.

 

[michael7777]

I am still waiting for a reference, from the Church that says homosexual sins are worse than heterosexual sins.
Will you please provide that information.

First of all let me say, like St. Faustina in Divine Mercy Diary, “the greater the sinner, the greater his right to God’s mercy.” “There is no sin too great for God’s mercy.”

So don’t despair for anyone committing Sodomy or any other grave sin, all can be overcome with the love of God.

In regards to your specific question, all coming from St. Thomas in the Summa, under his listing of the order of gravity of sins.

newadvent.org/summa/3154.htm#article12

that “of all these,” namely the sins belonging to lust, “that which is against nature is the worst.” (FYI) The saint goes on to say what is against nature… and sodomy is one.

Hence Augustine says (Confess. iii, 8): “Those foul offenses that are against nature should be everywhere and at all times detested and punished, such as were those of the people of Sodom, which should all nations commit, they should all stand guilty of the same crime, by the law of God which hath not so made men that they should so abuse one another. For even that very intercourse which should be between God and us is violated, when that same nature, of which He is the Author, is polluted by the perversity of lust.”

St. Thomas Aquinas on speaking of lust says,
Gravity of a sin depends more on the abuse of a thing than on the omission of the right use. Wherefore among sins against nature, the lowest place belongs to the sin of uncleanness, which consists in the mere omission of copulation with another. While the most grievous is the sin of bestiality, because use of the due species is not observed. Hence a gloss on Genesis 37:2, “He accused his brethren of a most wicked crime,” says that “they copulated with cattle.” After this comes the sin of sodomy, because use of the right sex is not observed. Lastly comes the sin of not observing the right manner of copulation, which is more grievous if the abuse regards the “vas” than if it affects the manner of copulation in respect of other circumstances.

 

[michael7777]

Let me just make a correction, in what I previously wrote, I read St. Thomas Aquinas on pollution during dreams. And he said **it was not a sin **unless one is guilty of it happening because of overeating or over drinking. I remember Father Ripperger saying that caffiene before bed can cause one to have emission during sleep. If I remember correctly. Sorry for the confusion and mistake.