Should I date this girl?

[Wirraway]

… it’s a bad idea to date someone hoping they will do so. …

my wife is the daughter of a bible thumping (they actually do thump bibles during a fire and brimstone sermon) baptist minister. but slowly over time, not quite yet, but soon, she’ll be in RCIA.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

– Hold hands or cuddle, if one person or the other or both do it out of lust and/or for sexual pleasure.
…
(I am trying to stop looking at pornopgrahy and go to confession often and pray).

Um… you’re trying to stop looking at pornography… but you won’t hold hands… If you’re not motivated or determined enough to stop looking at porn, don’t harass this poor girl with complaints about hand-holding.

Porn is the worst of all the things you listed here. You have to stop that before you can make any progress. Don’t blame it on hand-holding.

 

[grandfather]

Well agreed. I personally have done almost everything there is to do and I regret a lot of it. I wasn’t that strong in my faith at the time and being in college as I am now it was and still is tough. But now I’m closer to God and I am trying to be a second born virgin in a sense in waiting until marriage. Granted I only had 1 partner in college, it still was devastating and a big negative experience and the relationship ended a few weeks after so I will not go through that again.

In terms of the rest of the “bases” in a relationship. It really depends on each and every person. You have to ask " is what I’m doing out of love or lust?" You can even give a sloppy wet kiss and not sin in my opinion. But if you do it for lust and get sexually aroused and keep kissing to a point. Then yes it’s like driving a car to 100mph and hitting the breaks before a cliff. It’s not wise and your playing with fire. Its also sinful since it is lustful intent.

But yes cuddling, hand holding, and even kissing (even french if not prolonged) isn’t sinful if it’s purely out of emotions. That is just my opinion though but kissing is as far as I will go since I’ve learned from past mistakes its hard to stop once you get too far.

Very wise!

 

[grandfather]

Um… you’re trying to stop looking at pornography… but you won’t hold hands… If you’re not motivated or determined enough to stop looking at porn, don’t harass this poor girl with complaints about hand-holding.

Porn is the worst of all the things you listed here. You have to stop that before you can make any progress. Don’t blame it on hand-holding.

Great advice. There is a problem and it is not holding hands.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Whoa, I came into this topic to see if I could give honest advise and now I am afraid to read much more since I saw how somone thinks French Kissing is a mortal sin… Sigh. I never ever considered it before. I hope its not…

I don’t recommend interfaith dating at all. At some point, unless the other is willing to convert up front - its not going to work in general. There will be resentments. There is much more to be shared with a common faith. The precedence is all in the OT of the Jews not intermarrying outside their beliefs and I honestly believe God does not want us intermixing strange and heretical faiths. I have heard too much idealism that takes the form “well who is to say I can’t convert her etc.” Well, who is to say one does not cave in one’s faith to keep the peace and to get the affections?

Maybe date socially on a friendship level to get a feel if she is hard over on her current beliefs - but I’d not get involved. It’s hard enough finding a true practising Catholic date who is not secularized and ultra liberal in their beliefs.

James

 

[Emily2009]

Quote:

So how can it be right to French Kiss out side of marriage if one of the persons or both know that they will be aroused sexually and entering a near occasion of sin? And for that matter if one knew hand holding would arouse them it would be their responsibility to stay away from that. (Again not saying it’s grave matter to hold hands and for most I assume it is just done out of loving affection, but for those who struggle and are so easily set off I would assume it is a different story when avoiding the near occasion of sin).

Some people are called to live chaste single lives which would mean avoiding near occasions of sin like French kissing.
.

I’ve got a question–is being aroused a near occasion of sin or is it a sin?.. …And, please, answer only if you have some reason to back it up and not just in your opinion.

 

[J1234]

I’ve got a question–is being aroused a near occasion of sin or is it a sin?.. …And, please, answer only if you have some reason to back it up and not just in your opinion.

Marriage is Like Christ and the Church

Ephesians 5:22-32
22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.

24 But as the church is subject to Christ, **so also **the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, **just as **Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,

27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;

29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,

30 because we are members of His body.

31 FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.

**Hebrews 13:4 **

**4Marriage is to be held in honor **among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

How do you become “united” or “one flesh”? .

Genesis 1:22
God blessed them and said, “**Be fruitful and increase in number **and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.”…

…1 Corinthians 7
1Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man **not to touch a woman. **

2But because of** immoralities**, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

1 Corinthians 9
9But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Jude 1:7 **
7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in **gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire…

…The Bible is God’s written word. Many verses show that sex outside of marriage is wrong. It’s not an opinion its His Law. And His church continues to teach it.

Read Leviticus 18 if you don’t believe He gave “rules” with sex.

**Luke 10:16 **
16"The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."

When we hear the bishops’ teaching on the faith, we hear Christ Himself.

Matthew 5:27-28 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.” 28 But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

1. Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself , isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

Sex outside Marriage is sinful and getting aroused
is wrong if it’s not done in the context of Marriage in the procreative act. (Although sometimes it is possible to get aroused out non-sexual reasons, like when a man has to use the bathroom really bad, it happens sometimes.)

I’m sorry I should have said they have already sinned if they, or one of them have,done so knowingly, (Filling the 3 requirements for mortal sin, grave matter, full consent of the will, and full knowledge).

 

[Emily2009]

So arousal is always a sin–but, it is not a sin if one doesn’t consent to it?.. I am fairly young (17) and I do not have problems with this, but my 16 year old boyfriend does… .and, it’s even when we don’t do anything. If we are in the same room, talking, eventually it happens for him… …[he has told me such things so as to not upset me if he cannot hug me or hold my hand on a certain day…] He is not lustful, nor I. And, it angers him… …is this a sin, too?.. …is there anything to make it stop? Is it worse because we both know that it probably will happen?
Presumably,marriage is not an option, as we’re only 16 and 17, though, if we could, we’d be okay with that, too…

And as for the sex before marriage deal, I know that. We’re both Catholic and terribly stubborn and know that that is NOT an option. And wouldn’t EVER be tempted to partake in such matters until we’re (hopefully) married (sometime in the future)…

 

[Emily2009]

Oh, and J1234, thank you…

 

[CentralFLJames]

So arousal is always a sin–but, it is not a sin if one doesn’t consent to it?.. I am fairly young (17) and I do not have problems with this, but my 16 year old boyfriend does… .and, it’s even when we don’t do anything. If we are in the same room, talking, eventually it happens for him… …[he has told me such things so as to not upset me if he cannot hug me or hold my hand on a certain day…] He is not lustful, nor I. And, it angers him… …is this a sin, too?.. …is there anything to make it stop? Is it worse because we both know that it probably will happen?
Presumably,marriage is not an option, as we’re only 16 and 17, though, if we could, we’d be okay with that, too…

And as for the sex before marriage deal, I know that. We’re both Catholic and terribly stubborn and know that that is NOT an option. And wouldn’t EVER be tempted to partake in such matters until we’re (hopefully) married (sometime in the future)…

Emily, the best thing to do at your age is to go out together all in groups and do activities that are not going to lead to temptations. There will be much less opportunity to sin in a group setting. If somone gets out of the group “norm” the others will reel them in and make them stop.

James

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

1. Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself , isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

This makes sense to me.

The trouble is, from my point of view, that men and women are attracted to each other. This is how God made us. It is not some sort of perversion or disorder. If an unmarried man sees an unmarried woman and finds her beautiful, his body will react. This reaction may only be in his mind, but it is a reaction, likely resulting in at least some enjoyment. Some would even call it the beginnings of “arousal.” So, it could be said that this man derived sexual pleasure from a woman who is not his wife. Has this man committed a mortal sin? I certainly don’t think so, but perhaps some would disagree…?

I agree that lust is sinful, as defined in the Catechism. I don’t agree that it is immoral for men to be attracted to women or for women to be attracted to men.

 

[J1234]

Well I think I read before on this forum or something that if a man is attracted to a women at first sight that this is, obviously, normal. The man should thank God for making this women so beautiful. But if a man is to continually stare and then ENTERTAIN impure thoughts about this women, then it has become lust. Also to note, if the man has a passing impure thought, as long as he does will to keep the thought in his mind, he has not sinned, it’s when we entertain the thoughts. I would say the same for women to men.

So arousal is always a sin–but, it is not a sin if one doesn’t consent to it?.. I am fairly young (17) and I do not have problems with this, but my 16 year old boyfriend does… .and, it’s even when we don’t do anything. If we are in the same room, talking, eventually it happens for him… …[he has told me such things so as to not upset me if he cannot hug me or hold my hand on a certain day…] He is not lustful, nor I. And, it angers him… …is this a sin, too?.. …is there anything to make it stop? Is it worse because we both know that it probably will happen?
Presumably,marriage is not an option, as we’re only 16 and 17, though, if we could, we’d be okay with that, too…

And as for the sex before marriage deal, I know that. We’re both Catholic and terribly stubborn and know that that is NOT an option. And wouldn’t EVER be tempted to partake in such matters until we’re (hopefully) married (sometime in the future)…

I can’t answer those questions because I’m unsure myself but, if you didn’t already know, the apologictics on the ask an apologist forum on this site, could probably help you much better than I (But they do get many questions and sometimes it takes a while to have your question answered, sometimes they don’t answer the questions for many reasons, they say why under the ask an apologist forum)

God Bless.

 

[Emily2009]

okay, thanks.
If/when I finish my calculas homework, I’ll ask them… [speaking of which, I should get off of this and do that…].

 

[po18guy]

You are dealing with two separate issues here - one of of purity, the other of vocation. Discerning a vocation, even that of marriage, is an often lengthy process. Discerning a vocation to the consecrated life can be a protracted, gut-wrenching decision.

If you are willing to give your life back to the Lord, forgoing all worldly pleasures and compensations in exchange for the spiritual life and eternal rewards, you may have a vocation to the consecrated life.

If you are consistently attracted to the vocation of marriage it, too, must be carefully discerned over a considerable period of time.

Properly done, each takes mental, physical and spiritual effort and is intended to be made once in a lifetime.

I would counsel you to seek spiritual direction from your priest or the parish spiritual director. Neither vocation should be entered into lightly.

Christ’s peace.

 

[chaz0426]

Whoa, I came into this topic to see if I could give honest advise and now I am afraid to read much more since I saw how somone thinks French Kissing is a mortal sin… Sigh. I never ever considered it before. I hope its not…

I don’t recommend interfaith dating at all. At some point, unless the other is willing to convert up front - its not going to work in general. There will be resentments. There is much more to be shared with a common faith. The precedence is all in the OT of the Jews not intermarrying outside their beliefs and I honestly believe God does not want us intermixing strange and heretical faiths. I have heard too much idealism that takes the form “well who is to say I can’t convert her etc.” Well, who is to say one does not cave in one’s faith to keep the peace and to get the affections?

Maybe date socially on a friendship level to get a feel if she is hard over on her current beliefs - but I’d not get involved. It’s hard enough finding a true practising Catholic date who is not secularized and ultra liberal in their beliefs.

James

Not true! My whole family is catholic and it spread through my family through my grand parents ect. but my grand father on my father’s side was baptist I believe and converted to catholicism when getting married.

Nothing is wrong with interfaith dating but yes you should keep that in the back of your mind and really bring up the issue if your relationship gets to the point of considering marriage. If a partner agrees to convert then your fine. If not then there are going to be some problems. The problems isn’t in dating itself but marriage. The church does allow you to marry other faiths especially Christian faiths but doesn’t encourage it.

I think at the very least you should be able to raise your kids catholic even if your spouse doesn’t convert. If you can do that then your marriage may be fine. Otherwise it gets complicated.

 

[newbetx]

-IAlmost every time (but not every single time) I see her though I think about making out with her or some sort of lustful thought, and this on my own, not like she’s doing anything (other than wearing perfume) to set me off.

Should I date her or should a stop seeing her all together to avoid the near occasion of sin? Does it look like I am called to something like living a single, chaste life like becoming a monk?

Son, you still have a problem. Please do not continue a relationship with this young woman lest you fail and do something you may regret. Until you can see her as “your sister” you are not thinking of her as a wife but as a mate. I recall your troubles form other posts and I assure you that you are not alone. However, I suggest you get professional assistance in your struggle and pray, pray, pray that you receive His Grace a become free from this torture.

 

[DL82]

We can often have a deep love for someone which means we want to share the gospel with them, help them grow in their faith, and be close friends with them.

If we have this kind of evangelical love, and also have some measure of attraction or desire (not to say lust, it can be good and pure attraction) for a member of the opposite sex, it can sometimes seem a lot like we are called to marital love for that person.

The trick is discerning, is this someone I could give myself totally, fruitfully, unconditionally to? If not, if you’re setting conditions “she’d have to be Catholic first”, then don’t date, but do remain friends, and do explain to her why.