Should I keep this class?

[fakename]

There’s a bit of a liberal professor who wants to talk about religion for a class that I’m taking. And you never want to here a liberal speak about religion -who knows what they’d say? Now I don’t want to stay on-board if this will only further her career of possibly bad-mouthing religion and I certainly don’t want to stay if this will result in me having to hear such non-sense (for that’s what it is).

So should I stay in the class?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

There’s a bit of a liberal professor who wants to talk about religion for a class that I’m taking. And you never want to here a liberal speak about religion -who knows what they’d say? Now I don’t want to stay on-board if this will only further her career of possibly bad-mouthing religion and I certainly don’t want to stay if this will result in me having to hear such non-sense (for that’s what it is).

So should I stay in the class?

I do not know what class is that and what interest you have in this class.
But, I tell you a story. The beloved Pope John Paul Ii, when entering the Conclave that elected him Pope, brought a book to read in the free time. Who was the author? Karl Marx, the Father of communism.

John Paul II was a brilliant mind because he was a doctorate in Philosophy and he knew by heart Communist Philosophers, much better than most Communists.

We, Catholics, cannot be in an aquarium, far from the world. It is good to hear what others have to say about us, even if it is totally nonsense.

Having said that, I am not saying stay or give up, its up to you, just making a reflection.

As for myself, I like to hear what others have to say about Catholics and I do not know the info, then I stay; if I know, I do not waste my time with old-fashioned stereotypes. Or else, if I am in a good mood, I start making questions and arguing which transforms many times the class into an uneven battle: it is all against me, which is brilliant and stimulating.

It happened to me once in a course on Human Sexuality, where they presented the definition of the World Health Organization (WHO) on “sexual act”. It puzzled me that did not appear the word “reproduction”. Of course, I could not shut up and argued…Big confusion…The young and charming ladies who were giving the course just stopped on their tracks. I affirmed that the sexual act, according to WHO, serves to everything but … reproduction!

On that account I got the worst grade on the course …

 

[purplesunshine]

Yes. Run away from liberals. Move out to rural montana, live in a cave and buy meat from gunowners.

Seriously? If your faith is so weak that you cannot handle one colllege class or your tounge so loose you cannot go 55mins without putting your 2 cents in you shouldnt be in college.

 

[ChadS]

A few months Mark Shea wrote a column about a similar situation where a person approached him about a theology class where every book was like a manual on dissent and full of nonsense. This person was obviously looking for a class or texts to get a good solid foundation in Catholic studies and theology.

His advice was take the course and look at the readings as primer in learning the arguments of the ones that are most in opposition to the Church’s teaching. Take this as an opportunity because you will be getting this nonsense straight from the horse’s mouth and no doubt the books they reference will be what the teacher considers the best examples of the argument. Do the work and learn from them and then when you come across this stuff later you’ll know exactly what they are talking about and won’t be caught flat footed.

ChadS

 

[Newbie2]

Exactomundo.

While I wouldn’t ever go looking to take a class where I knew they would be dissing religion in general or Catholocism in specific, if it was required in my major program I’d do the following:

1. Take the class.
2. Keep my mouth shut in class, unless directly engaged, and even then, phrase my arguments as “some people would say…”.
3. IF I knew that I would never have that particular instructor again, I’d write the dean of studies for that department, the president of the university or college and each individual board of regents member and tell them in a matter-of-fact tone why you were disappointed in the instructor and his or her intolerance of religious ideals and values.

Stressing intolerance really bugs the intelligencia, because there is no way to justify it, especially since a majority of them publically denounce intolerance of their far-liberal ideas. Most of them realize the hypocrisy of selective tolerance, and the ones that do not…well, let them go ahead and advertise their ignorance.

1. If I knew there was a chance that I would have him or her again, I’d wait until I graduated, then add that they can save money in postage and phone calls by never contacting you as an alum and asking for money, because you’ll not donate one thin dime to support such intolerance.

 

[I_Thirst]

Keep the class and follow the good council offered by previous posters. Also, keep Matthew 5:11-12 close to your heart.

Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you [falsely] because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Rejoice and be glad that you have the opportunity to take this class.

 

[Joe_5859]

A few months Mark Shea wrote a column about a similar situation where a person approached him about a theology class where every book was like a manual on dissent and full of nonsense. This person was obviously looking for a class or texts to get a good solid foundation in Catholic studies and theology.

His advice was take the course and look at the readings as primer in learning the arguments of the ones that are most in opposition to the Church’s teaching. Take this as an opportunity because you will be getting this nonsense straight from the horse’s mouth and no doubt the books they reference will be what the teacher considers the best examples of the argument. Do the work and learn from them and then when you come across this stuff later you’ll know exactly what they are talking about and won’t be caught flat footed.

ChadS

I agree with this. One of the college courses I took that has served me the best was the “Morality of Abortion” course I took from a pro-abortion, atheist professor. It really gave me insight into the philosophical basis for accepting abortion as morally licit (and how weak that basis is). It was great, too, because he spent the first three weeks of class totally demolishing all of the popular pro-choice arguments that one encounters in the media and public debate. They really are irrational. Of course, then he built his case upon the rejection of Descartes’ dualistic notion of the soul (thereby “proving” the soul does not exist) which is bunk, but at least it’s logically consistent.

Nonetheless, if you really feel that you will be led astray and potentially reject Catholicism because of what the professor says, then dropping the class might be necessary for your spiritual health. The fact that you are here on CAF asking about this, though, would lead me to suspect that your faith is quite important to you and that probably wouldn’t be an issue. Nonetheless, I would take it to prayer and talk through it with a priest who you trust.

 

[skigirl1689]

It’s really tough to attend public university and not have to endure at least one professor like this. I have had one professor like this for two classes so far and I have to take one more of his classes plus he’s advising my senior project/paper (I’m an English major) this semester.

At first he drove me nuts, but I’ve learned to just take what he says with a grain of salt, do my work, and he respects me as a student. But with him, it’s a facade in the classroom that he is unapproachable and disrespectful to digressing viewpoints but if I approach him privately, he’s the total opposite. But I will be glad in the spring when I have the first semester in a year and a half that I won’t to take one of his classes.

My advice is stick it out since you cannot go through life without dealing with these types of people and this professor will teach you how to handle such situations, though he or she would be horrified if he or she knew you were helped in such a way .

Are you involved in a campus ministry? This is my lifesaver that keeps my faith strong and saves my sanity as it reminds me that I have peers who share my worldview and my faith and I am not the only one on campus with these beliefs.

 

[SecretGarden]

Being a student, I know what it’s like to have a teacher that bashes your faith denomination. As a student, you have the right to complain and you also have the right to stand up and stand up for your faith. Depending on the teacher, this could really affect your marks.

You need to pray and ask for guidance on this because class like this can do two things: strengthen your commitment to God, or cause a lot of doubt. If God wants you to be in the class, he’ll give you the strength to endure, if not, or your faith is weak, dropping it is probably the best choice. Before you make a decision, seek advice from an academic adviser because he/she will know your program’s requirements and should be able to provide the best course of action. If you are stuck with the class, ask your friends to pray for protection and it will pass eventually. Just see one asap because I don’t know when the drop date is and if you wait too long, you might be stuck with the class.

 

[Bezant]

There’s a bit of a liberal professor who wants to talk about religion for a class that I’m taking. And you never want to here a liberal speak about religion -who knows what they’d say? Now I don’t want to stay on-board if this will only further her career of possibly bad-mouthing religion and I certainly don’t want to stay if this will result in me having to hear such non-sense (for that’s what it is).

So should I stay in the class?

Well, I think –

Firstly, unless he’s a reputation for it, you don’t know he’ll insult your religion. He might actually surprise you with something you never knew before.

Secondly, even if he chats rubbish, odds are it’s going to fall on you to challenge him and share your perspective. You’re a student, and moreover, a university student.

Thirdly, staying in the class could strengthen your faith to prevail against criticism.

 

[ChadS]

1. Keep my mouth shut in class, unless directly engaged, and even then, phrase my arguments as “some people would say…”.

I really have to disagree with this one. Being vague and non-definite in your argument is simply the best way to devalue it and ignore it. Obviously you don’t have to have footnotes ready with page citations in class, but say why you disagree, what your source is for this disagreement and why you agree with it. Saying “some would say” sounds like the verbal equivalent of either “I don’t know” or “that’s what I think but I can’t back it up.”

Also, just saying “the Church says so” won’t get you too far either. Each encyclical written by the Popes is very logical and has a clear line of argumentation, if you can demonstrate that then when the prof says “he’s a sexist patriarch full of child molesters” hopefully others will recognize that as an ad hominem attack. If the prof is doing their job they’ll have made a big deal about how people have marginalized women and workers etc. etc. for a long time and you shouldn’t discount an argument just because of that. Perhaps other students will say “Hey isn’t that the same thing you’re doing?”

ChadS

 

[Rascalking]

Is this a joke? Are you serious?

Bite your tongue and move on. In the real world, you have to meet and interact with people who don’t share your views. This might shock you, but some might be mean, nasty, rude or insulting-that’s just the way some people are. You need to accept it, not take it personal, and deal with it.

If you can’t deal with those who don’t share your views than you need to see a shrink. Rapidly.

 

[Newbie2]

I really have to disagree with this one. Being vague and non-definite in your argument is simply the best way to devalue it and ignore it. Obviously you don’t have to have footnotes ready with page citations in class, but say why you disagree, what your source is for this disagreement and why you agree with it. Saying “some would say” sounds like the verbal equivalent of either “I don’t know” or “that’s what I think but I can’t back it up.”

Also, just saying “the Church says so” won’t get you too far either. Each encyclical written by the Popes is very logical and has a clear line of argumentation, if you can demonstrate that then when the prof says “he’s a sexist patriarch full of child molesters” hopefully others will recognize that as an ad hominem attack. If the prof is doing their job they’ll have made a big deal about how people have marginalized women and workers etc. etc. for a long time and you shouldn’t discount an argument just because of that. Perhaps other students will say “Hey isn’t that the same thing you’re doing?”

ChadS

I see your point, but the idea is to deflect the wrath and possible vendetta against oneself by the instructor. You could say, for example, “Catholic Theologians would disagree with that characterization of __________” or “Pope JPII wrote about that very thing and said _____________”.

What I was getting at is to avoid “I” when defending the faith in such a situation; you’re not going to change such an instructor’s mind, are unlikely to get them to behave and are likely to jeopardize your grade. I say this as a student of over 20 years.

Besides, if it’s not a religion class, it’s probably an aside and the instructor will probably move on. Granted, there will be some cases where they will let you have your say, but basically they have the bully pulpit in the classroom. Better, than directly challenging the instructor is doing it wisely. Preaching the gospel doesn’t always involve words.

 

[ChadS]

I see your point, but the idea is to deflect the wrath and possible vendetta against oneself by the instructor. You could say, for example, “Catholic Theologians would disagree with that characterization of __________” or “Pope JPII wrote about that very thing and said _____________”.

What I was getting at is to avoid “I” when defending the faith in such a situation; you’re not going to change such an instructor’s mind, are unlikely to get them to behave and are likely to jeopardize your grade. I say this as a student of over 20 years.

Besides, if it’s not a religion class, it’s probably an aside and the instructor will probably move on. Granted, there will be some cases where they will let you have your say, but basically they have the bully pulpit in the classroom. Better, than directly challenging the instructor is doing it wisely. Preaching the gospel doesn’t always involve words.

I suppose it would be better to know what kind of class this is. Is it history, philosophy, theology or religious studies? Depending on what type of course it is would then depends on how much of an attempt should be made to defend the Catholic faith. I mean if it’s an aside and only happens once then it might just be worth it to let it slide. If it’s something more significant to the course then you would want to speak up.

Then again I’ve never been in a situation like this. I’ve never had professors so antagonistic towards religion that the class environment was hostile. I’ve also never seen students fail or receiving lesser grades for speaking their minds.

ChadS

 

[Newbie2]

I suppose it would be better to know what kind of class this is. Is it history, philosophy, theology or religious studies? Depending on what type of course it is would then depends on how much of an attempt should be made to defend the Catholic faith. I mean if it’s an aside and only happens once then it might just be worth it to let it slide. If it’s something more significant to the course then you would want to speak up.

Then again I’ve never been in a situation like this. I’ve never had professors so antagonistic towards religion that the class environment was hostile. I’ve also never seen students fail or receiving lesser grades for speaking their minds.

ChadS

Definitely if the class was a religions class or theology we’d have an obligation to set them straight, particularly on something like “Mary Worship” or the like.

 

[revert_jen]

Yes. Run away from liberals. Move out to rural montana, live in a cave and buy meat from gunowners.

Seriously? If your faith is so weak that you cannot handle one colllege class or your tounge so loose you cannot go 55mins without putting your 2 cents in you shouldnt be in college.

That could have been more charitable.

It is painful to watch a teacher teach lies to people who don’t know enough to disbelieve them. The OP wants to defend the truth, which is admirable. I’m sure you’ve heard the quote, “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” The problem here is that it is highly unlikely that there is anything the OP can do that will do any good.

Unfortunately for me, I wasn’t one of the ones who saw it happening, but one of the ones it happened to. I didn’t know much, and in some areas, I left college knowing less than I went in with, because I “knew” additional wrong stuff. But I can tell you that I believed what the professors said, and nothing another student said would have made any difference, except to make me annoyed at the other student.

So, advice to the OP:
If the professor makes an incorrect statement of fact, like the people who say the Spanish Inquisition killed one million people or something, it is perfectly in order to ask for a reference for that “fact.”

If the professor is bringing in references to religion for no good reason, just to slang religion, that is really bad and should be stopped. But it would be extremely difficult to stop it without severe consequences to your academic career. It’s not just a question of that professor–if you’re ever planning on having another course in that whole department, you are probably unwise to say anything. The consequences to you would be worse than any benefit to anyone, because at best all that will happen to the professor would be a slap on the wrist.

The only thing I can think of that would do any good would be to record the lectures, saving the relevant portions (including enough time at either side for context). Then, you could play them for your parents, and your parents could complain. (Of course, this assumes that your parents would mind–not all parents do!) That would probably involve less danger to you and a little more attentive hearing of the complaint.

Of course, that assumes that the professor does it again. Maybe it was just a one-off, in which case you would be losing out by withdrawing from the class. In any case, withdrawing from the class to punish the professor (I couldn’t tell whether you were considering this) would be pointless because nobody would care.

God bless you and help you to the right decision, which He knows, and I don’t.

–Jen

 

[fakename]

So with some exceptions, it is better to stay in the class and fight the errors, then to leave the class at the mercy of deranged teaching?

 

[Joe_5859]

So with some exceptions, it is better to stay in the class and fight the errors, then to leave the class at the mercy of deranged teaching?

I don’t know if I’d phrase it quite that way.

I guess I have gone both ways. As I mentioned earlier, I took a Philosophy class on the Morality of Abortion that was a very helpful experience. But, I also dropped a class on the History of Christian Thought that was taught by a secular Religious Studies professor when he mentioned on the first day of class that the Catholic Church wasn’t started until the 4th century. At the time, I didn’t have the knowledge, time, or desire to sift through that every day. If I had the opportunity now, I would probably stick with it for the experience. But at the time I wanted to have a firm grasp on the truth of the matter before I waded into those waters.

 

[fakename]

I don’t know if I’d phrase it quite that way.

I guess I have gone both ways. As I mentioned earlier, I took a Philosophy class on the Morality of Abortion that was a very helpful experience. But, I also dropped a class on the History of Christian Thought that was taught by a secular Religious Studies professor when he mentioned on the first day of class that the Catholic Church wasn’t started until the 4th century. At the time, I didn’t have the knowledge, time, or desire to sift through that every day. If I had the opportunity now, I would probably stick with it for the experience. But at the time I wanted to have a firm grasp on the truth of the matter before I waded into those waters.

that’s why I prefaced what I said with “with some exceptions”.

So if it won’t hurt my faith, and if it presents an opportunity to defend it, would it be better for me to stay or go?

 

[Joe_5859]

that’s why I prefaced what I said with “with some exceptions”.

So if it won’t hurt my faith, and if it presents an opportunity to defend it, would it be better for me to stay or go?

I really can’t answer that for you, of course. But if you feel like you can do a good job presenting the Catholic viewpoint to counter any of the rubbish, then I can’t see that being a bad thing.