Should I move to a different parish?

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joshvanrad

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I am looking to get some completely outside opinions on my situation. The situation:

I had dated the liturgist of my family’s church and we split up on All Souls Day. The end of our relationship was turbulent, to say the least. Since the end of our relationship I have become more active in the church with the free time I have each day. I have found great fulfillment in serving the many ministries of the church. Some time after we split up we agreed that we would just treat each other in a professional manner (ie: parishioner and liturgist) and we would respect each others’ space and avoid seeing each other outside of that. She has not been professional about it or civil, and her perception is that I am just at this church to crowd her space. I had thought it would be possible for us to coexist while I perform my ministries, but she is showing me that that may not be the case.

She has made it very clear that she does not intend to stick around the parish and her time there is limited. She has made it very clear that she wishes to move from my home town and the church. So my question is:

Should I move to a different parish until she leaves to avoid her confrontational attitude, should I stay at the church and continue my ministries there, or should I stay at the church and give up my ministries until she is gone?

Thanks for any advice,
Joshua

Ite in pace!
 
joshvanrad said:
Should I move to a different parish until she leaves to avoid her confrontational attitude, should I stay at the church and continue my ministries there, or should I stay at the church and give up my ministries until she is gone?
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I would, it would be easier for both of you I think. I guess it comes down to whether you can stand it or not. If it’s a problem, just be like water my friend. :nunchuk:
 
As she is making it clear she don’t intend on sticking around, if you can, I would stick it out as its your parish church. Is she there for training and once trained will move on?

Just keep your head down so to speak and keep as quiet as you can for the time she is left there. Talk to your parish priest too so he will understand why you are finding some bits harder at the moment.

I would stay if at all possible, even if just to do the minimum you feel comfortable at, at the moment. It doesn’t matter if she isn’t being too professional. Don’t play her game. But ask God to keep you safe and keep your distance as its tough to reach that happy medium with her.
 
joshvanrad said:
I am looking to get some completely outside opinions on my situation. The situation:

I had dated the liturgist of my family’s church and we split up on All Souls Day. The end of our relationship was turbulent, to say the least. Since the end of our relationship I have become more active in the church with the free time I have each day. I have found great fulfillment in serving the many ministries of the church. Some time after we split up we agreed that we would just treat each other in a professional manner (ie: parishioner and liturgist) and we would respect each others’ space and avoid seeing each other outside of that. She has not been professional about it or civil, and her perception is that I am just at this church to crowd her space. I had thought it would be possible for us to coexist while I perform my ministries, but she is showing me that that may not be the case.

She has made it very clear that she does not intend to stick around the parish and her time there is limited. She has made it very clear that she wishes to move from my home town and the church. So my question is:

Should I move to a different parish until she leaves to avoid her confrontational attitude, should I stay at the church and continue my ministries there, or should I stay at the church and give up my ministries until she is gone?

Thanks for any advice,
Joshua

Ite in pace!
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Otherwise you are satisfied with the parish and your work there? It seems she has the problem. If she’s going to leave, I see no reason for you to leave, even temporarily.

Possibly, given some time she will calm down. Avoid any more discussions on this matter, do what you are there for. If you must talk with her, take it as your cross but do not allow her to engage in adversarial discussions. I would not give up anything.

Best you found out now. Is she moving from the hometown because of this breakup. Kind of extreme, don’t you think?
 
Josh, take it easy brother. I say bake her a cake, it never fails. Ps. It’s a figurative expression, you’ll know what to do.
 
FightingFat said:
I would, it would be easier for both of you I think. I guess it comes down to whether you can stand it or not. If it’s a problem, just be like water my friend. :nunchuk:
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It seems that her problem is that he does not have a problem with the end of the relationship. Why make things easier on her if he does not want to change his parish and change his duties?
 
Stay put, and if the BS gets to be too much, talk to the Priest or Deacon about it. As my Mom used to say, “Offer your suffering up to Jesus.”
 
I agree with someone else who said don’t play her game. be the bigger person. Do what you need to do. Treat her civilly and ignore any rude behavior leveled your way.

If it escalates too greatly then speak to your priest privately and get his take on the situation but otherwise just pretend she isn’t being ridiculous.
 
mellowcheddar said:
Stay put, and if the BS gets to be too much, talk to the Priest or Deacon about it. As my Mom used to say, “Offer your suffering up to Jesus.”
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I agree with this post completely, just keep doing your thing and if its too much for you see the priest for advice.
 
I guess I’m just a little puzzled as to what, exactly, a liturgist does and why that makes her anything more than a parishioner. Are liturgists omnipresent or something? Do they plan out Masses and such and if they do, do they stand around directing it all?

Now, if a liturgist in your context means someone who is omnipresent at Mass in some kind of official appearing capacity, and if she’s somehow indicating hostility in the course of doing that, then I believe I would find another parish, pronto. (and maybe not just for that reason)

On the other hand, if a liturgist plans out things like kids’ processions and that sort of thing then goes and sits in a pew like any other parishioner while the kids do their thing now and then, I don’t see why you ought to leave, whatsoever.

One would almost have to see it to really know.
 
Wow! Just looked up “Catholic lay liturgist” and it directed me right back to an explanation of it on CAF. I read it. According to what I read, a liturgist is practically the pastor of the parish. Runs nearly everything, and certainly all the “ministeries”.

I think if the lady is making her opposition obvious in front of others, or is treating you badly in whatever your subordinate functions are, I would be out of there without so much as a look in the rearview mirror.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Wow! Just looked up “Catholic lay liturgist” and it directed me right back to an explanation of it on CAF. I read it. According to what I read, a liturgist is practically the pastor of the parish. Runs nearly everything, and certainly all the “ministeries”.

I think if the lady is making her opposition obvious in front of others, or is treating you badly in whatever your subordinate functions are, I would be out of there without so much as a look in the rearview mirror.
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“Practically” the pastor is not the pastor. Wanting to find another job and move somewhere else does not guarantee that the opportunity exists. Besides, the plans of a person who just went through a major breakup, especially as reported to the person with whom she broke up, ought to be taken with a grain of salt. Human nature is not so steady as that.

OP, I would suggest that you go to a nearby parish that has a pastor and talk to him. Another priest with a good amount of pastoral experience would also be a good choice. He’ll be able to ask more detailed and pointed questions as you explore your situation, and will give you a better idea of what your options are and how to choose from them. This way, you can get more specific guidance than we could hope to give, but you won’t be talking to your former girlfriend’s supervisor, which could cause more difficulties with her if your consultations get back to her and you decide to stay in the parish.
 
It has become more hostile over the past week. The weekend happenings:

A while back when we were still on speaking terms I was going to add EMHC to my ministries (including serving, mass coordinating, and sometimes ushering when they need me). I had filled out the form and she agreed to send it up to the pastor for him to sign. This last weekend was the blessing and training of the EMHCs and when I got through with the training I asked the priest if he had seen my EMHC certificate. We checked the list and my name was not on the list for people becoming EMHCs. I figured I would talk to the ex to find out if she knew anything about it and she said she didn’t send it up because she wanted me to be an usher and she wouldn’t allow me to do both ministries. She was very vindictive about the whole process and it was done in a very behind-the-back way.

For the past few months I have been avoiding her as much as I can and avoided bringing up any questions about ministries in order to avoid conflict. The EMHC question had to be addressed and I felt very betrayed with how she handled it. She told me it was her call and I would just have to live with it, so I went to our pastor. He said that the situation did not sit right with him either and it ISN’T her call, it is his call to commission EMHCs (which he had every intent to commission me because we had discussed it some time ago). She is not happy with how I handled the situation and has asked me to leave the parish. Addition information: some time back before things got as rocky as they are now I had told her that if I am not doing right by our church and she wanted me to leave, that I would leave.

I do not feel I have done anything wrong to the church and if it were any other liturgist I would not be having these problems. Any other liturgist would allow me to freely choose my ministries and to help out at the church wherever I could. I feel very hurt by her actions and I feel like she is just trying to take things away from me out of her anger and pride.

To clarify her leaving situation: she is not leaving because of the relationship. It is kind of a complex story, but in summation she just like to move around. She has been the liturgist of the church for the past year and she doesn’t feel like this is her home. I have my own opinions on her moving situation, but my opinions matter little to the facts at hand.

Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
 
Not enough information to answer fairly. I agree with Ridgerunner in that it partly depends on the authority and responsibilities that held by a liturgist in YOUR parish.

I would not want to have her as my de facto “boss”. …at least not directly. So if you are involved in liturgical ministries then at the very least I would look for things to do that have a low profile during Mass. If I was a choir director, cantor, or accompanist I would probably begin looking for work at another parish. If I was a reader, EMHC, sacristan or something like that I would probably try and switch to teaching, sponsoring an RCIA candidate, helping with pro-life ministries, working with St. Vincent de Paul, etc. …something that *mostly *takes place when Mass is not going on.

I would not want to be pushed out of the parish but I would also want to avoid making my life miserable.

Even though this woman says that she does not plan to stay at this parish I would guess that she is going to stick around at least until she finds a better job or has other reasons to leave the area.
 
joshvanrad said:
It has become more hostile over the past week. The weekend happenings:

A while back when we were still on speaking terms I was going to add EMHC to my ministries (including serving, mass coordinating, and sometimes ushering when they need me). I had filled out the form and she agreed to send it up to the pastor for him to sign. This last weekend was the blessing and training of the EMHCs and when I got through with the training I asked the priest if he had seen my EMHC certificate. We checked the list and my name was not on the list for people becoming EMHCs. I figured I would talk to the ex to find out if she knew anything about it and she said she didn’t send it up because she wanted me to be an usher and she wouldn’t allow me to do both ministries. She was very vindictive about the whole process and it was done in a very behind-the-back way.

For the past few months I have been avoiding her as much as I can and avoided bringing up any questions about ministries in order to avoid conflict. The EMHC question had to be addressed and I felt very betrayed with how she handled it. She told me it was her call and I would just have to live with it, so I went to our pastor. He said that the situation did not sit right with him either and it ISN’T her call, it is his call to commission EMHCs (which he had every intent to commission me because we had discussed it some time ago). She is not happy with how I handled the situation and has asked me to leave the parish. Addition information: some time back before things got as rocky as they are now I had told her that if I am not doing right by our church and she wanted me to leave, that I would leave.

I do not feel I have done anything wrong to the church and if it were any other liturgist I would not be having these problems. Any other liturgist would allow me to freely choose my ministries and to help out at the church wherever I could. I feel very hurt by her actions and I feel like she is just trying to take things away from me out of her anger and pride.

To clarify her leaving situation: she is not leaving because of the relationship. It is kind of a complex story, but in summation she just like to move around. She has been the liturgist of the church for the past year and she doesn’t feel like this is her home. I have my own opinions on her moving situation, but my opinions matter little to the facts at hand.

Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
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(Underline mine, obviously):

Can. 518 As a general rule a parish is to be territorial, that is, one which includes all the Christian faithful of a certain territory. When it is expedient, however, personal parishes are to be established determined by reason of the rite, language, or nationality of the Christian faithful of some territory, or even for some other reason.

Not only is it not her place to ask you to leave the parish, but by canon law you belong to the parish in whose geographic territory you live. IOW, you can choose to attend Mass elsewhere, but your parish is your parish, and unless you’re planning on changing your own domicile to suit her, there is nothing that either you or she can do about that.

Furthermore, it is not for her to dictate which of the Catholic faithful may attend a particular Mass and not for her to dictate which of the faithful, whether they belong to the territory of the parish or not, may assist the priest in any particular capacity. This is something your priest realizes and which she apparently does not. Stay in contact with him regarding how you would like to assist at his parish, and follow his decisions concerning what assistance he does or does not want from you.

What she wants is her problem, and she needs to accept that if she ever hopes to fulfill her duties in an appropriate way. If she thinks it is her place to dictate to you, then there is no reason she wouldn’t overstep her authority with regards to anyone else she is supposed to be serving. If she can’t accept the obedience required by her job, she may need to find a different line of work. Excepting that you should not encourage her to hold on to a wrong-headed understanding of her authority, that is not your problem to work out. That is hers. Don’t make her remedial education your work, though; that belongs to someone else.
 
joshvanrad said:
It has become more hostile over the past week. The weekend happenings:

A while back when we were still on speaking terms I was going to add EMHC to my ministries (including serving, mass coordinating, and sometimes ushering when they need me). I had filled out the form and she agreed to send it up to the pastor for him to sign. This last weekend was the blessing and training of the EMHCs and when I got through with the training I asked the priest if he had seen my EMHC certificate. We checked the list and my name was not on the list for people becoming EMHCs. I figured I would talk to the ex to find out if she knew anything about it and she said she didn’t send it up because she wanted me to be an usher and she wouldn’t allow me to do both ministries. She was very vindictive about the whole process and it was done in a very behind-the-back way.

For the past few months I have been avoiding her as much as I can and avoided bringing up any questions about ministries in order to avoid conflict. The EMHC question had to be addressed and I felt very betrayed with how she handled it. She told me it was her call and I would just have to live with it, so I went to our pastor. He said that the situation did not sit right with him either and it ISN’T her call, it is his call to commission EMHCs (which he had every intent to commission me because we had discussed it some time ago). She is not happy with how I handled the situation and has asked me to leave the parish. Addition information: some time back before things got as rocky as they are now I had told her that if I am not doing right by our church and she wanted me to leave, that I would leave.

I do not feel I have done anything wrong to the church and if it were any other liturgist I would not be having these problems. Any other liturgist would allow me to freely choose my ministries and to help out at the church wherever I could. I feel very hurt by her actions and I feel like she is just trying to take things away from me out of her anger and pride.

To clarify her leaving situation: she is not leaving because of the relationship. It is kind of a complex story, but in summation she just like to move around. She has been the liturgist of the church for the past year and she doesn’t feel like this is her home. I have my own opinions on her moving situation, but my opinions matter little to the facts at hand.

Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
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Sorry, I don’t understand how a liturgist can ask a member to leave the parish. I don’t understand abrograting your power to make choices to another. I got a priest so mad at me he asked me to go to back to religious instruction; he did not ask me to leave the parish. .

Is it time for another talk with the pastor (or any priest) in that she has now asked you to leave the parish entirely? I assume the EM situation was straightened out by the pastor.

So, her leaving is not definate or has a time frame. After consultation with a priest, you are going to have to make the decision if you are comfortable with leaving or staying. Realize two things: 1) if she never leaves, but you do, you may not be able to return to the parish and 2) worse, if she is overstepping her power in asking you to leave, she is out of line and maybe she should not be the liturgist and she places the parish in danger with arbitrary personal (vindictive) decisions which are outside her authority and outside the runnings of a parish.

No matter what you decide, I think God showed you that his plan was not to marry this woman in time. You should give God thanks – even if you do have to leave. I would not leave, but possibly get some advice from the other parish as to what your next step is – and if she is being out of line in asking you to leave the parish.

Realize that you should not feel bad at all. The problem is not some failing on your part. Too bad she cannot live her faith but uses her power against you. But it’s not your fault; the blame is entirely upon her.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Wow! Just looked up “Catholic lay liturgist” and it directed me right back to an explanation of it on CAF. I read it. According to what I read, a liturgist is practically the pastor of the parish. Runs nearly everything, and certainly all the “ministeries”.

I think if the lady is making her opposition obvious in front of others, or is treating you badly in whatever your subordinate functions are, I would be out of there without so much as a look in the rearview mirror.
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On the other hand is she not causing harm to the parish? If he does not undertake a certain ministry that he wants because of her, or leaves the parish – will someone else step in or does that leave the ministry “without.” What is she sets her sights on another parishoner? Is the parish only to be made up of those who follow her orders or who she is in good 'stead with?
 
I am beginning to feel very beaten and bloodied by this whole situation.

Is it wrong that I just want her to leave for the sake of it making my life in the parish easier? I have felt such a calling to these ministries and I feel so fulfilled by my service to the church. Knowing that she has a form of control over what I do there has really been working my spirit in negative ways lately. I feel as if I am being robbed of what is right and just. I would fight a thousand losing battles in the name of justice, but I feel like it is weakening my spirit.

The last time we truly talked was through email over a month ago and I think it was getting to a civil and level spot at that point. I am realizing quickly that it is not as civil as I had hoped.

Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
 
joshvanrad said:
I am beginning to feel very beaten and bloodied by this whole situation.

Is it wrong that I just want her to leave for the sake of it making my life in the parish easier? I have felt such a calling to these ministries and I feel so fulfilled by my service to the church. Knowing that she has a form of control over what I do there has really been working my spirit in negative ways lately. I feel as if I am being robbed of what is right and just. I would fight a thousand losing battles in the name of justice, but I feel like it is weakening my spirit.

The last time we truly talked was through email over a month ago and I think it was getting to a civil and level spot at that point. I am realizing quickly that it is not as civil as I had hoped.

Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
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It would be good to talk about this with a priest because, in the end, what matters is your relationship with God and her relationship with God. Her attitude is causing behaviors that aren’t exactly what I would call “growing”, and it also affects you…and possibly any others who observe it.

But that doesn’t mean that leaving is the answer, especially since she will be leaving.

Pray a lot and talk to your priest. He knows all of the situation. Let him know you are concerned about how this impacts both you and she…and possibly others, especially if there is gossip…with your relationship with God.
 
joshvanrad said:
I am beginning to feel very beaten and bloodied by this whole situation.

Is it wrong that I just want her to leave for the sake of it making my life in the parish easier? I have felt such a calling to these ministries and I feel so fulfilled by my service to the church. Knowing that she has a form of control over what I do there has really been working my spirit in negative ways lately. I feel as if I am being robbed of what is right and just. I would fight a thousand losing battles in the name of justice, but I feel like it is weakening my spirit.

The last time we truly talked was through email over a month ago and I think it was getting to a civil and level spot at that point. I am realizing quickly that it is not as civil as I had hoped.

Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
Click to expand...
Consider this a challenge. These hard times are good. They help you grow. Growing pains always hurt but it gets better.
 
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