Should joe biden be kicked out of the catholic church for supporting abortion

[Skeptic92]

Excommunication is a specific penalty for procuring a completed abortion. It would not apply in the situation you describe above. And, excommunication does not “kick out” a Catholic from the Church. An excommunicated individual is still a Catholic.

Can. 1398 A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.

Such a pesron is still a Catholic, and can be reconciled, receive absolution and resume the sacraments.

I never said an excommunication kicks someone out from the Church, I said that the politicians are most likely excommunicated anyway.

Hmm, just the woman who receives receives the abortion being excommunicated was not what i was taught, by my Priest in RCIA, nor how my experience is, it was when i was taught it, all parties involved are excommunicated, the doctors, nurses, those who pushed the woman to have an abortion, and the polititions who actively vote pro-abortion, or was i taught in err?

 

[braidwood]

…
I really don’t think Biden and Pelosi serve as “role-models” to the majority of the country anyway

I take it you come from another planet if you think that politicians could be role models.
That is a contradiction in terms.

 

[Fledgling]

I take it you come from another planet if you think that politicians could be role models.
That is a contradiction in terms.

…What?

I said I don’t think Biden and Pelosi are “role-models”.

Especially to Catholics since most are Conservative and probably don’t like them anyway.

Do you think the majority of Americans are really paying enough attention to them to be influenced by their lack of religion? Those who are, are probably non-religious liberals anyway.

What are you saying?

 

[kozlosap]

…What?

I said I don’t think Biden and Pelosi are “role-models”.

Especially to Catholics since most are Conservative and probably don’t like them anyway.

Do you think the majority of Americans are really paying enough attention to them to be influenced by their lack of religion? Those who are, are probably non-religious liberals anyway.

What are you saying?

Are you serious? Most Catholics conservative. LOL!

 

[Skeptic92]

Are you serious? Most Catholics conservative. LOL!

The Catholics that are faithful to the magisterium and the Church are conservative?

That sounds more correct.

However i make the Conservatives in my country look liberal, but what can i say I’m British.

 

[Nec5]

i think that joe biden should be kicked out of the catholic church for supporting abortion i need your thoughts and opinions please

Yes. And it should have been done many moons ago along with other notorious proponents of evil.

 

[Barbkw]

(LifeSiteNews.Com) -

Archbishop Raymond Burke (Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura) said, “We find self-professed Catholics, for example, who sustain and support the right of a woman to procure the death of the infant in her womb, or the right of two persons of the same sex to the recognition which the State gives to a man and a woman who have entered into marriage. It is not possible to be a practicing Catholic and to conduct oneself publicly in this manner.”

To resounding applause Burke said, “When a person has publicly espoused and cooperated in gravely sinful acts, leading many into confusion and error about fundamental questions of respect for human life and the integrity of marriage and the family, **his repentance of such actions must also be public.” **

The Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura then voiced a concern that struck a deep chord with many of the Catholic pro-life activists present at the conference.

“One of the ironies of the present situation is that the person who experiences scandal at the gravely sinful public actions of a fellow Catholic is accused of a lack of charity and of causing division within the unity of the Church,” he said.

“One sees the hand of the Father of Lies at work in the disregard for the situation of scandal or in the ridicule and even censure of those who experience scandal.”

 

[Newbie2]

By his actions against the unborn, he and multiple other “catholics” have self excommunicated themselves from receiving the Eucharist.

They care more for their reelections (their earthly jobs) than they care for the unborn.

catholicadvocate.com/wp/?page_id=10

Because their sin in public, their penance is public. Their votes must support the unborn.

I’m guessing that the get in line anyway and receive the Sacrament.

Nancy Pelosi thinks she’s a Catholic too. Both she and Biden (and Sebalius too) present the wrong image of Catholics to the world.

I do think pro-abortion politicians who are ostensibly Catholic should be excommunicated. They have chosen their position, they can convert and be some other faith if they think a woman’s “right to choose” is more important than the life of the innocent baby that’s already been created. It’s not the excommunication that would send them to Hell, it’s their support of the murder of babies. How can you top Satan??

It’s no wonder the world has little respect for the Catholic Church. If they look at Pelosi and Biden, they wonder “well what’s all the fuss about abortion then?”

I have to agree; perhaps not excommunication but some sort of “canononical penalty” and public correction.

No he should not. If we started kicking sinners out of the Catholic Church there wouldnt be anyone left. However that is not to say that the public does not to be reminded constantly that he advances political views that are a direct rejection of the teachings of the church

So what gets done? These very public and very powerful people continue to promote and aid evil and it appears like the CC does nothing and does not care what they are doing?

It’s frustrating. Sure, all of us sin, but not to the extent of aiding evil as he and others have done…not many of us have that capability.

The Catholic Church does not “kick people out.”

The Church is not a club. The Church is the Body of Christ. Every person is incorporated into the Body of Christ via their baptism, and baptism is an indelible mark on our souls.

The Church’s mission is to save souls. Those who are living in a sinful manner or who hold positions contrary to Church teaching need saving more than anyone. The priests and bishops are the pastors, teachers, and governors of the Church. Their role is to help these individuals find the Truth and live in virtue and holiness.

***A Catholic who is publicly at odds with Catholic teaching can and should be dealt with **pastorally *****by his/her bishop and could, if necessary and justified, face various canonical penalties through the juridical processes outlined in Canon Law.

Exactly, and that’s the frustrating thing for other Catholics…nothing seems to be done about this. Not that our goal is to punish Biden, Pelosi, et al, but to publically distance the Church ( or vice-versa) from the views that they spew forth every day.

Why cannot the UCCB or the Magisterium continue to issue statements condemning such politicians’ veiwpoints???

 

[Christopher68]

I am happy to see so many responses replying “no” to the OP’s question.

As a Catholic - and also a libertarian - I believe that government action more often than not makes existing problems worse as opposed to better, especially on issues where there is not universal consensus, such as abortion. In fact, if those who believe in an activist government approach to eliminate abortion were actually empowered to implement their agenda, the end result would likely be an increase in abortions, rather than a reduction. It is a mistake to assume that government is a benevolent high-performance organization that routinely achieves its objectives. However, I am fully aware that the emotional nature of this issues often clouds one’s view of the unfortunate reality of government.

 

[Corki]

Of course.

These sorts of dealings are always confidential. (How would any of us like it if our bishop or priest made public his dealings with us?)

In Olmsted’s case, it is the hospital administratorthat went public with the correspondence to them, not the bishop.

So, we must have faith that our bishops DO deal with these people in a private and pastoral manner. It may not go as quickly as we like. It may not have visible results we like. But, ultimately the goal is saving souls and that is a slow, difficult process for many!

These dealings are not always confidential. In the Arizona case, even today, the Bishop confirmed the excommunication of the specific person involved. And while Archbishop Naumann didn’t use the wording of “excommunicated,” for Kathleen Sebilius, he did say publically that she was not to receive Communion. The bishops can, if they feel the faith of the flock might be threatened, chose to make these sanctions public.

I am happy to see so many responses replying “no” to the OP’s question.

As a Catholic - and also a libertarian - I believe that government action more often than not makes existing problems worse as opposed to better, especially on issues where there is not universal consensus, such as abortion. In fact, if those who believe in an activist government approach to eliminate abortion were actually empowered to implement their agenda, the end result would likely be an increase in abortions, rather than a reduction. It is a mistake to assume that government is a benevolent high-performance organization that routinely achieves its objectives. However, I am fully aware that the emotional nature of this issues often clouds one’s view of the unfortunate reality of government.

That’s all well and good but not the topic of this thread. Regardless of your own feelings, the Church unequivically states that cooperating with abortion is a grave evil and can incur the penalty of excommunication. Supporting abortion with the intent of making it rarer (which I don’t believe is the VP’s stance anyway) is not an exception.

 

[Barbkw]

These dealings are not always confidential. In the Arizona case, even today, the Bishop confirmed the excommunication of the specific person involved. And while Archbishop Naumann didn’t use the wording of “excommunicated,” for Kathleen Sebilius, he did say publically that she was not to receive Communion. The bishops can, if they feel the faith of the flock might be threatened, chose to make these sanctions public.

catholickey.blogspot.com/2009/03/archbishop-naumanns-column-on-sebelius.html

Archbishop Naumann was on “The World Over” on EWTN explaning why he needed to publicly announce that Sebilius was not to present herself for communion. The previous bishop had several counseling sessions with Sebilius over her public political actions. When Archbishop Naumann succeeded Archbishop Keleher in Jan. 2005, his counseling attempts also fell on her deaf ears.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802605.htm

May 2008 from CNS:

"WASHINGTON (CNS) – Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann of Kansas City, Kan., said Gov. Kathleen Sebelius should stop receiving Communion until she publicly repudiates her support of abortion and makes a “worthy sacramental confession” related to her stance.

Writing May 9 in The Leaven, the archdiocesan newspaper, Archbishop Naumann said the Catholic governor of Kansas has had a long record of supporting and advocating for legalized abortion and that her public stances have “grave spiritual and moral consequences.”

The column comes after the archbishop said he learned that Sebelius recently received Communion in a Kansas parish. He said he had previously met with Sebelius and discussed his concerns about her position on abortion and her vetoes of legislation to limit abortion in the state.

Archbishop Naumann told Catholic News Service May 12 that he sent a letter in August to the governor requesting that she refrain from receiving Communion because of her actions in support of abortion. He also said after discussing the issue with his fellow Kansas bishops he sent Sebelius a second letter asking that she respect his earlier request.

While the archbishop said he has the option of asking priests and extraordinary ministers of holy Communion not to give Communion to Sebelius, he said he is not ready to take that stand."

Story continues at: catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802605.htm

 

[Christopher68]

That’s all well and good but not the topic of this thread.

The OP stated a personal opinion and then asked for other forum members thoughts and opinions, which I provided. You may disagree with the content of my post, but to say that it is off topic is simply untrue.

Regardless of your own feelings, the Church unequivically states that cooperating with abortion is a grave evil and can incur the penalty of excommunication. Supporting abortion with the intent of making it rarer (which I don’t believe is the VP’s stance anyway) is not an exception.

There is a vast difference between ‘cooperating’ with something, versus realizing that government action will make something worse and thereby deciding to avoid government action.

 

[Barbkw]

As a Catholic - and also a libertarian - I believe that government action more often than not makes existing problems worse as opposed to better, especially on issues where there is not universal consensus, such as abortion. In fact, if those who believe in an activist government approach to eliminate abortion were actually empowered to implement their agenda, the end result would likely be an increase in abortions, rather than a reduction. It is a mistake to assume that government is a benevolent high-performance organization that routinely achieves its objectives. However, I am fully aware that the emotional nature of this issues often clouds one’s view of the unfortunate reality of government.

Your comment is either off topic or misdirected.

The Magisterium’s protection of the faithful, is not a “government action”.

 

[Corki]

There is a vast difference between ‘cooperating’ with something, versus realizing that government action will make something worse and thereby deciding to avoid government action.

You are partially correct. While both would be cooperating, the scenario you describe would probably be considered remote material cooperation with evil. Joe Biden, unfortunately, has not decided to “avoid government action”. His voting record as a Senator shows that he actively promoted abortion and voted to increase rather than decrease government action in that regard. And that would be formal cooperation with evil.

 

[Christopher68]

The Magisterium’s protection of the faithful, is not a “government action”.

Your comment assumes that “government action” always has a positive effect, when in reality it does not.

 

[Barbkw]

Your comment assumes that “government action” always has a positive effect, when in reality it does not.

I didn’t make a comment about “government action”. Nor did I make a comment about “goverment action” being positive.

Are you becoming obsessively libertarian?

 

[Rohanfan]

Should You? No.

Should Joe Biden? No.

OK, I will stop judging you. You see, I do not see what is actually deep down in you, so I cannot judge you.

This is just me at least.

Peace

Paul

 

[PAboy57]

Regardless of how the Church publically deals with Joe Biden, be assurred that there probably has been some discussion behind closed doors.

Our goal is to have sinners repent and be in full communion with the Church and her teachings. We all need help in this department. I have family that choose which portions of teaching they will follow. Words to them seen to not make them understand. Rest easy that everyone will get what they deserve when we depart of this world.

So for now just hunker down and do your best to follow the Church and help your fellow man. Ignore those who are discracing themselves and vote for those that will follow God the best they can. I going to believe that many of our bishops are having very straight forward talks with politicians causing such sin and heart break within the Church.

If our bishops aren’t doing anything to bring these people around then that presents another problem – for them. And I’m sure there is Someone who will deal with them.

Use your weapons to promote change – stop voting for them and pray for them. Those are 2 very powerful weapons that will get their attention sooner or later for sure.

I appreciate all the interesting comments. God Bless.

 

[Christopher68]

The Magisterium’s protection of the faithful, is not a “government action”.

I didn’t make a comment about “government action”.

 

[Barbkw]

Are you trying to say that your “libertarianism” extends into your Catholicism, that the Magisterium (Bishops and Archbishops) need to turn a blind eye to their flocks and allow “public” Catholics to pass laws that support homosexual marriage and abortion?