Should July 4 be a Proper Solemnity for the United States?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mythbuster1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Maximian said:
Rebellion against a lawful sovereign, however, is not, and the declaration issued to justify it is based on uncatholic ideas.
Click to expand...
When a people is treated as less than full citizens and denied their natural rights, you can hardly call the sovereign a lawful one.
 
Last edited:
July 4th on the Byzantine calendar is the Feast of St. Andrew of Crete who wrote the Great Canon of repentance which is done on the fourth Thursday of the Great Fast.

Given the fact that our nation has grievously sinned before God, it might be a good idea to propagate the Great Canon.

Also, true trivia tidbit to impress your friends: July 2 is the real Independence Day according to the letters of John Adams to Abigail Adams. The 4th is when all the signatures were on the Declaration of Independence. 😆
 
Btw, (cough, cough), don’t tell anybody this 😉 but… The words of “America” aka “My Country, 'Tis of Thee” is set to the tune of “God Save the Queen”. 😆
 
An act of defiance against oppressors. The tune takes on new meaning.
 
Last edited:
The American war for independence against Britain is definitely a messy area, morally. An army of rebels fighting its British parents, who are themselves rebels from Rome. Like father like son.

Solemnities are meant to honor the sacred, not Christians fighting each other.
 
Last edited:
We can go to Mass on 4th of July and in USA it will be an appropriate patriotic Mass. We don’t need it to be a solemnity.
Frankly, I think solemnities should be reserved to honor God, Jesus, Mary, and important saints.
Not big on Thanksgiving being made a solemnity.
But I don’t get a say.

I also don’t sit around pronouncing on the moral choices of people who lived 250 years ago. (Unless they did something like schism away from the Church.) For secular matters, I was not raised in their culture and I didn’t have to walk in their shoes.
 
Last edited:
Is thanksgiving really a solemnity in the US? I never realized that and am very surprised. In Canada, I believe there are propers for Thanksgiving (in October), but I’m pretty sure it’s at best an optional memorial.
 
I think its great that some Catholics wish to attend Mass on Thanksgiving or July 4th. Going to Mass is never a bad idea. I think it is totally fine to celebrate an optional memorial or even have a votive Mass, such as in Thanksgiving to God on Thanksgiving day.
However, a clear distinction needs to be made between a public holiday and the celebration of Mass. We go to Mass to celebrate Christ. That being said, if the faithful understand the clear distinction and understand that they are celebrating Christ during the Mass and not whatever the holiday is celebrating then that’s fine. However, with the optional memorials or votive Masses, the two celebrations can go hand and hand together.
 
Here’s a snip from the USCCB Liturgical Calendar for November after All Saint Day. Thanksgiving is not a Solemnity. The Congregation for Divine Worship with the approval of the Pope decides what is a (n) Optional Memorial/Memorial/Optional Feast/Feast/Solemnity. Independence Day and Thanksgiving would be considered ‘Local Observances’.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
twf said:
Is thanksgiving really a solemnity in the US? I never realized that and am very surprised. In Canada, I believe there are propers for Thanksgiving (in October), but I’m pretty sure it’s at best an optional memorial.
Click to expand...
Not even. It’s a votive Mass or rather is taken from Masses for various circumstances. According to the Ordo, either the Mass “after the harvest” or “For giving thanks” is used (sorry I only have the Latin and French nomenclature; in French it is “Messe après les récoltes” and “Messe pour Action de Grâces” (which does not mean Action the Grâces the holiday but for any situation one wants to give thanks). Our abbey uses the former.

Unlike a memorial it’s not celebrated at all in the Liturgy of the Hours.
gotDoug said:
However, a clear distinction needs to be made between a public holiday and the celebration of Mass.
Click to expand...
I have an easier time celebrating Thanksgiving in church, rather than July 4th (or for us Canadians, July 1st). One can give thanks to God for things like a good harvest, making it through the year unscathed, or in good health, or whatever. In fact thanking God is most appropriate in those circumstances.

July 4th celebrates a rebellion. In Canada, July 1st celebrates confederation, an act of unity and granting of autonomy by legal means. But that’s still a secular event. Though I do often feel grateful for being Canadian. It’s a great place to live.
 
Last edited:
I see now that this was a dumb idea. That said, it is good for priests to take Independence Day as an opportunity to remind the people that true freedom is only found by living in Christ, because sin enslaves and destroys. An unrighteous people cannot remain free; they will either sell their freedom to support their vices, or they will destroy themselves with licentiousness.
 
Margaret_Ann said:
…Also, true trivia tidbit to impress your friends: July 2 is the real Independence Day according to the letters of John Adams to Abigail Adams. The 4th is when all the signatures were on the Declaration of Independence. 😆
Click to expand...
Just a sidebar:

John Adams, the second president of the United States, and Thomas Jefferson, Adams’ vice president and successor in office, had worked with each other to draft the Declaration of Independence, published on July 4, 1776. Fifty years to the day, the 90-year-old Adams and 83-year-old Jefferson died just hours apart.

Jefferson desired to live until July 4 so “that he might breathe the air of the Fiftieth Anniversary.” His last words, spoken the night before his death in the early afternoon of July 4, are traditionally given as some variation of “Is it the Fourth?”

Adams spent his final days at his home in Quincy, Mass. On the morning of July 4, he remarked, “It is a great day. It is a good day.” He died in the early evening, hours after Jefferson. According to tradition, Adams uttered the final words, “Thomas Jefferson survives,” unaware of the fact that his longtime friend had just passed away.

😐
 
OraLabora said:
I have an easier time celebrating Thanksgiving in church, rather than July 4th (or for us Canadians, July 1st). One can give thanks to God for things like a good harvest, making it through the year unscathed, or in good health, or whatever. In fact thanking God is most appropriate in those circumstances.

July 4th celebrates a rebellion. In Canada, July 1st celebrates confederation, an act of unity and granting of autonomy by legal means. But that’s still a secular event. Though I do often feel grateful for being Canadian. It’s a great place to live.
Click to expand...
Sure, but we don’t have to celebrate July 4th in that way at Mass. Given all that is happening in the U.S. now, these Masses for various needs & occasions seem appropriate: for promoting harmony, for the progress of peoples, for the preservation of peace and justice, for the sick.
 
I agree, July 4th should not be celebrated as a a feast in church, but your ideas for which Masses for various needs one can use are indeed very appropriate for July 4th (or for us, July 1st).
 
Thanks for the refresher. I knew they died on the same day but forgot the details.
 
No, it is entirely inappropriate. Solemnities are not for the observance of political or secular events.

Thanksgiving Day does appear in the US national liturgical calendar. However, it most definitely is not a solemnity. It is an optional memorial.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top