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Feanor2
Guest
No. Thank God I don’t see that happening either.
I’m even funny with US flags in Churches.
I’m even funny with US flags in Churches.
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Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
Not even an optional memorial. Simply a votive Mass (another rung down the calendar).
God save the Queen.
Also it should be interesting to you, a Quebecer, that the Continental Congress listed the Quebec Act 1774 as one of the “Intolerable” Acts of Parliament. It was this Act that implemented the first relaxations of restrictions on Catholics anywhere in the Empire. Of course, it was for political reasons (the Empire wanted to secure the loyalty of the Canadiens) but it had the effect of allowing French Catholic Canadians to hold public office with nothing more than an oath to King George III.
The Americans hated this because, among other reasons, they feared the spread of “papism” from the North. Yes, the Declaration of Independence had an underlying streak of anti-Catholicism in its rationale. That did not stop the rebels from gleefully accepting help from the Catholic French when it suited them.
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OraLabora
Guest
Amen. I think I’m one of only three monarchists in Québec… it’s too bad Quebecers don’t know more of their own history.
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TomH1
Guest
I simply went off the Liturgical Calendar for the Dioceses of the United States of America 2020, where on p. 9 Thanksgiving Day is listed without rank and at the bottom of the same page it says: ‘When the rank of the celebration is not indicated, it is an Optional Memorial’.
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puer.dei
Guest
In addition to the Liturgical Calendar pointed out by TomH1, the Missal itself, page 1859:
July 4 [In the Dioceses of the United States]
Independence Day Optional Memorial
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Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
@TomH1, @puer.dei Thank you; I haven’t seen those entries in the Missal itself, but thanks for pointing this out. I was basing my statement on the fact that (1) I had not seen an entry in the Missal - but stand corrected; and (2) there’s no reference in the LOTH. Optional Memorials would appear in the LOTH, I would think.
FWIW: There’s no rank on the USCCB calendar for All Souls Day (Nov. 2), either, which as their footnote would imply, makes it an Optional Memorial - but it is not. It is an atypical liturgical anomaly with no “rank” assigned.
FWIW: There’s no rank on the USCCB calendar for All Souls Day (Nov. 2), either, which as their footnote would imply, makes it an Optional Memorial - but it is not. It is an atypical liturgical anomaly with no “rank” assigned.
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puer.dei
Guest
The Missal calls it a “Commemoration.” Now, that’s one I’d like to see moved up the liturgical ranks.
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gotDoug
Guest
In the ICEL edition of the LOTH for use in the USA and other countries, both Independence Day and Thanksgiving Day are listed in the Proper Calendar for the Dioceses of the United States. However, there is no Office given and no reference in the St. Joseph’s guide. Sadly though, the LOTH is very limiting in that there are very few Votive Offices and no Offices for Various Needs & Occasions like in the Missal. I really hope that in the new edition of the LOTH, some of these Votive offices get included.
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TomH1
Guest
I cannot, of course, check the Missal. Obviously, my Missal (for England & Wales) makes no mention of the day. We have the situation here where the closest we get is celebrating our patron saints who are a solemnity in their own country and a feast in the other three. I am, of course, to clarify, talking about England (St George), Northern Ireland (St Patrick), Scotland (St Andrew) and Wales (St David).
I have often wondered what the rank of All Souls’ Day is. I have come to the conclusion that no one really knows!
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Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
I brought that up in a roundabout way a while back on another thread; Fr. Edward-George said that it is a rank of its own, independent of the normal ranking scheme. It’s not proper to refer to it as a solemnity, feast, etc. It’s just “All Souls”.
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mythbuster1
Guest
All Souls’ Day is ranked above the Feasts of the Lord and below Solemnities. As such, it suppresses the Sunday of Ordinary Time if it falls on a Sunday, but since it is not a Solemnity, it doesn’t suppress the obligation of penance if it falls on a Friday.
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TomH1
Guest
I suppose that’s the best way to think of it.
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TomH1
Guest
I am aware of where All Souls’ Day falls in the Table of Precedence of Liturgical Days; however, that does not tell us what kind of liturgical day it is.
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mythbuster1
Guest
I suppose that makes it a Feast.
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Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
No; check over the posts above again. It’s not a feast, memorial, solemnity, etc. It just “is” - a special non-rank of its own. That’s why it’s named separately in the table of calendar rankings and the rubrics within the Missal are specific to it.
Edit to add: double checking the Missal again, it’s listed as a “Commemoration” - and despite knowing it was named as such, I wasn’t sure if the Missal would “rank” it that way, but it does. Where every other day states the rank, November 2 says “Commemoration”.
Edit to add: double checking the Missal again, it’s listed as a “Commemoration” - and despite knowing it was named as such, I wasn’t sure if the Missal would “rank” it that way, but it does. Where every other day states the rank, November 2 says “Commemoration”.
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Cor_ad_Cor
Guest
Since this popped up in my notifications again, I took a moment today to check the Missal here. Both July 4 and the 4th Thursday of November are listed there as “optional memorials”, but they do not appear in the LOTH at all. Go figure…
learned something new.- Status