Should Latin mass be brought back?

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Yes, so i dont see the “dumbing down prosess” here. I do see it on cable news. I believe that is how we got this president. Totally without nuance. One line twitter responses to everything.

But we need not go political on this subject other than to say American has been dumbed down but I dont think the Catholic Church has.
 
Really? Following in the missal was not ‘anything special?"
You do realize that missals were Latin/English or Latin/French or Latin/whatever. IOW, you heard and associated Latin words and phrases with their counterpart ‘vernacular phrases’. And you learned that Dominus vobiscum meant ‘the Lord be with you’ and you assimilated "The Lord be with you’ just as a person assimilates it now in the vernacular.

Tell me do you think that young children get ‘nothing out of the Mass’? Children even up through grade 4 or so (the average “English” of a Mass being anywhere from the 4th to the 6th grade level) do not completely comprehend the vernacular being said, still less the ‘context’. And many people never really move much beyond that 6th grade ‘literalism’.

PRIOR to Vatican II people were also encouraged to study Scripture more and read more (my grandfather, born in 1885, possessed the Bible given to him as a young man (published in 1901) WITH the usual indulgence prayer in the beginning for 30 minutes daily Bible reading and the injunction to a deeper prayer life).

The Baltimore Catechism is not simply ‘grade 1’ and the responses are not ‘simplistic’ as one moves to the upper grades. Just how familiar are you with the corporal and spiritual works of Mercy and the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

A child who is well grounded in the ‘times tables’ learned by rote is going to be able to move on to algebra with far more ease than the child who still has to ‘count fingers’ to remember 9 x 9.
 
Cicero, Sir Isaac Newton, etc. Newton’s Principia is actually a delight to read if you know Latin and physics.

Internet probably has about 2500 years worth of Latin. Thank you, internet.
 
I notice when I go to a Mexican grocery store I say “Gracias” and they smile at me. If I say “Thanks” they don’t bother even looking at me.

And they say language doesn’t matter.
 
Utter nonsense. Order of the Mass means just that, the organization of prayers, readings, rubrics etc.

New means just what it meant in 1970: new. No more, no less.
 
stpurl said:
Really? Following in the missal was not ‘anything special?"
You do realize that missals were Latin/English or Latin/French or Latin/whatever. IOW, you heard and associated Latin words and phrases with their counterpart ‘vernacular phrases’. And you learned that Dominus vobiscum meant ‘the Lord be with you’ and you assimilated "The Lord be with you’ just as a person assimilates it now in the vernacular.
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Knowing a few phrases is not knowing Latin and so moving away from it was not “dumbing down”.
stpurl said:
Tell me do you think that young children get ‘nothing out of the Mass’? Children even up through grade 4 or so (the average “English” of a Mass being anywhere from the 4th to the 6th grade level) do not completely comprehend the vernacular being said, still less the ‘context’. And many people never really move much beyond that 6th grade ‘literalism’.
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Why are you stating, “getting nothing out of Mass”? I certainly never implied that. But how much more can be got when the entire thing is understood and not just a few phrases?
stpurl said:
PRIOR to Vatican II people were also encouraged to study Scripture more and read more (my grandfather, born in 1885, possessed the Bible given to him as a young man (published in 1901) WITH the usual indulgence prayer in the beginning for 30 minutes daily Bible reading and the injunction to a deeper prayer life).
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Not as much as today.

The Baltimore Catechism is not simply ‘grade 1’ and the responses are not ‘simplistic’ as one moves to the upper grades. Just how familiar are you with the corporal and spiritual works of Mercy and the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

A child who is well grounded in the ‘times tables’ learned by rote is going to be able to move on to algebra with far more ease than the child who still has to ‘count fingers’ to remember 9 x 9.
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My point was that rather than “dumbing down” the Church more was required than just memorizing answers. We now ask a reflective journey in the RCIA.
 
I’ll bet there are more Latinists now than in 1980. The Pope’s Latin twitter account alone has something like 800k followers.
 
ProVobis said:
I’ll bet there are more Latinists now than in 1980. The Pope’s Latin twitter account alone has something like 800k followers.
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But liking/knowing Latin and wanting Mass in Latin are not related principles. Knowing Latin may dispose someone to more appreciate the TLM but it dos not mean that one wants to attend it.

The idea that all the issues would be solved and OF would be a thing of the past if people just knew Latin is absurd.
 
As you say, perhaps because of the internet, I’df that is true. One has access to any language and if one has the time, can become more than proficient. It ought to be taught in High School ( it is not in my town) because it gives such background to English vocabulary and it is great for understanding sentence structures, grammar and all that. I find it easier than Greek. Perhaps because I had it in High School. Greek and Hebrew never sat with me.

Today, at 62, I am satisfied with the Psalms in Latin. I pretty much gave up on encyclicals and other more complex writings.
 
What do you mean by that? The OF was written in Latin; it just needed to be translated properly, and that was no easy task.

(Post was meant for X_V; I don’t know how it pointed to Shakuhachi.)
 
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I mean it is far more meaningful to those who do not understand Latin. We can all learn a few phrases but the prayers need a formal translation by a competent source.
 
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That’s the thing. You take 10 different translators and you get 10 different translations. How they ever reached a consensus baffles me.
 
Among those who promote the EF, at least the ones I know, they have a very dim view if ISEL (?) They translated, right?
 
ProVobis said:
What do you mean by that? The OF was written in Latin; it just needed to be translated properly, and that was no easy task.

(Post was meant for X_V; I don’t know how it pointed to Shakuhachi.)
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It was translated FOR people. The fact that translation is a tremendous amount of work should show you why people value Mass in their native tongue.

You keep going on and on about how knowledge/mastery and appreciation of Latin somehow means the desire for Mass in Latin. I don’t think I’m alone in knowing Latin but still loving the vernacular without hating TLM.

And don’t try to twist things. The OF is known in the vernacular, not in Latin. We don’t use Latin during the common OF Mass…perhaps a bit of Greek for the Kyre, or an un-required hymn like Ave Maria…but Latin is not an integral part of the OF experiance as it is with TLM.
 
I think the main thing I dislike about EF is that I cannot see what the priest is doing. Like it is some secret or something. Come on it is our Mass let us all participate and see.
 
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