Should Latin mass be brought back?

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What’s amazing is how the same people who condemn the “integralists” (to use Don Ruggero’s offensive label) for alleged nostalgia are the ones who are truly nostalgic. They live forever and always in circa 1970.
 
Vadne said:
What’s amazing is how the same people who condemn the “integralists” (to use Don Ruggero’s offensive label) for alleged nostalgia are the ones who are truly nostalgic. They live forever and always in circa 1970.
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Many older progressive priests and faithful are in panic mode as the gains they made after the council are being reversed. They will say and do anything to prevent a resurgence of tradition, which is to them a symbol of their own failure. That’s why we’ve seen that one Msgr. Pope article circulated through this thread so many times. The idea that the Traditional Mass is failing to attract large numbers of faithful is comforting to them. Let them think that! Meanwhile, the seminary of the FSSP in Nebraska is literally filled to capacity, and so is their seminary in Germany. In less than one generation in France, if trends continue, there will be more SSPX priests than diocesan ones. Even some diocesan seminaries, for example in Philadelphia and Lincoln, the young men are largely favorable of learning the Traditional Mass. The future is bright, so long as it isn’t squashed by the current regime in Rome.
 
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Funny how the changes after Vatican II are allegedly “irreversible,” but anything pre-Vatican II can be tossed out at the whim of any pope. Nonsense.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
Well that is certainly not me. I live in 2017. With Pope Francis. Where the liturgical reform is irreversible. It was a masterful address.

http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2017/08/24/pope_francis_liturgical_reform_is_irreversible/1332602
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Correct me if I’m wrong, Father, but is it not true that the church has NEVER propogated a Mass only to forbid it later? So historically, even if TLM were to be considered the norm the OF would always be permissible? Speaking historically, of course.
 
The future is bright indeed. The liturgical reform and renewal that is the novus ordo is God’s will and it is His extraordinary gift to the Church in this post-Conciliar era.

I have every confidence that the regime, as you call it…that is to say the Vicar of Christ on earth and the Successor of Peter and the Visible Head of the Church…will guide us faithfully forward with the renewed and reformed liturgy.

His recent clarifications will serve as an important corrective for the evolution of the novus ordo and, I am confident, that we will have sound pastoral directive relative to the _vetus ordo’_s proper place for the future.
 
So Don Ruggero, was Summorum Pontificum “God’s will” too? Or is only the Novus Ordo the will of God, and all the things Benedict said about the Mass can just be ignored?
 
Imagine fast forwarding to 2060 and the Novus Ordo is only allowed to be offered one Sunday a month at 4:30 PM in a cemetery chapel. “See! It was never abrogated! See how generous we are!” Think of how brutally cruel that would be to the people who are attached to the Novus Ordo? Yet, that is exactly what the merciful progressives did to the Mass of All Ages. Apparently, such behavior can be justified to fulfill the idea that the Church won’t ever fully abrogate one of her approved liturgies. If the Traditional Mass was treated in such a manner, a Mass that was promulgated by Saint Pius V through Quo Primum, and nourished so many great saints, then it could just as easily happen to the Novus Ordo, which has a far less impressive pedigree.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
I am confident, that we will have sound pastoral directive relative to the _vetus ordo’_s proper place for the future.
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AKA you are confident that Pope Francis has something “merciful” up his sleeve for Summorum Pontificum and perhaps even for Ecclesia Dei. We know. Every day I am able to attend a Traditional Mass I thank God, because I refuse to take it for granted.
 
There are rites of Mass which were suppressed in Church history.

Relative to what will become the future resoluton of the vetus ordo, there are several potential and effective resolutions, with precedent in history.
 
Benedict’s Summorum Pontificum already addresses the issue of what can and cannot happen with liturgies.
 
No, actually I am not. Nor am I contemptuous of Catholics who are pursuing “rightful aspirations.” Nor do I think Pope Francis can do whatever he wants, any more than Benedict could. One wonders…did you post what a wonderful gift from God SP was when it appeared? Of course not.
 
Well, just as Pope Benedict clarified and gave further structure to both Quattuor abhinc annos and Ecclesia Dei, promulgated by his predecessor Summorum Ponitificum can be tightened up, revised, have more instruction added, additional directives and pastoral adjustments by a subsequent promulgation. Summorum Pontificum envisioned this and made provision for it.

It’s very important to remember that there was a letter to the Bishops accompanying Summorum Pontificum. Its conclusion contained the following:
In conclusion, dear Brothers, I very much wish to stress that these new norms do not in any way lessen your own authority and responsibility, either for the liturgy or for the pastoral care of your faithful. Each Bishop, in fact, is the moderator of the liturgy in his own Diocese (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium, 22: “Sacrae Liturgiae moderatio ab Ecclesiae auctoritate unice pendet quae quidem est apud Apostolicam Sedem et, ad normam iuris, apud Episcopum”).

Nothing is taken away, then, from the authority of the Bishop, whose role remains that of being watchful that all is done in peace and serenity. Should some problem arise which the parish priest cannot resolve, the local Ordinary will always be able to intervene, in full harmony, however, with all that has been laid down by the new norms of the Motu Proprio.

Furthermore, I invite you, dear Brothers, to send to the Holy See an account of your experiences, three years after this Motu Proprio has taken effect. If truly serious difficulties come to light, ways to remedy them can be sought.
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I am certain that over the past almost five years now, the experiences of the Particular Churches are being communicated, as was invited, and that the Pope and those he has designated are filled with solicitude for what counsel is being offered.

As one example, the Chair of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops for Divine Worship is His Excellency Archbishop Wilton Gregory, former President of the USCCB. As it happens, he completed his advanced studies in liturgy precisely at the Pontifical Liturgical Institute, the Anselmianum, which is why his Brother Bishops for the whole of the United States have such confidence in him and the Church in America and indeed those outside the United States are blessed to have him in that office. It is the Providence of God.

The Benedictines of the world just elected a new Abbot Primate who is also the head of the Pontifical Liturgical Institute and is also the gift of Providence, to be there in Rome to offer his counsel and guidance as one of the premiere liturgical scholars and head of the Pontifical Liturgical Institute, our most prestigious school for the liturgy.

His Excellency Archbishop Gregory will be able to brief very well the Holy Father, and those whom the Holy Father entrusts this important endeavor to, about the situation and experiences in the United States. He is a gifted academic who is well appreciated in Rome and will moreover make a splendid analysis, as he always does.

I am confident. I expect the Holy Father will receive much sound and good counsel from all the Bishops to whom he turns.
 
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I quite vividly remember your previous posts in the old forum.

I did not know, however, you were a conspiracy theorists. One is finding out many remarkable things in this new forum. Remarkable.
 
It is amazing, however, how the allegedly small traditional movement is so obviously a thorn in some Catholics’ side.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
I did not know, however, you were a conspiracy theorist
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10 years ago, if anyone told me that in 2017 divorced and remarried people would be permitted to receive Holy Communion, that Rome would issue a stamp commemorating the heresiarch Martin Luther and the “Reformation”, that we would have a “Pope-Emeritus” who still wears a white cassock and lives in the Vatican, that the Pope would be making a push against clerical celibacy and towards the ordination of women, that the Pope would have issued an encyclical dedicated to climate change while 9 out of 10 Catholics don’t ever go to confession, etc., etc., I would have accused that person of being a “conspiracy theorist”, too. I’ve since shed the naivete. Nothing surprises me anymore.
 
Vadne said:
It is amazing, however, how the allegedly small traditional movement is so obviously a thorn in some Catholics’ side.
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The number of Lat(name removed by moderator)hiles is pretty small, however. As I get older, I see more and more funerals, yet have yet to see a Latin Funeral mass or wedding or baptism for that matter. Very much under the radar, not doubting anyone’s sincerity, but they are sincerely a very small, numerical wise group.
 
Augustinian said:
As I get older, I see more and more funerals, yet have yet to see a Latin Funeral mass or wedding or baptism for that matter.
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Those who are attracted to tradition aren’t old people. It is a myth that the reason the Traditional Mass is still around is because of nostalgia. In reality, it is young families that are frequenting the Traditional Mass. So funerals are not an accurate gauge. For example, the average age of an FSSP priest is 35. Young people are rediscovering the traditions of the past that have been unjustly hidden from them and kept secret by jaded and bitter previous generations.
 
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