Should liberals leave the catholic church?

[cathgal]

he said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesG
*yes I am 100% catholic

Do you reject the quote I made from Gospel about how Jesus gave the key to Peter?*

she said:

patg:

I agree it is a quote from the gospel but there is no way to know if it is a quote from Jesus or how accurately it is retold (I know, you don’t want to hear this stuff).

It is certainly a statement of power and authority but many see it as something created by those who were on Peter’s side (as opposed to Paul or James or any of the others competing for control).

What better way to consolidate one’s authority in a time of controversy than to have a quote that can’t be verified from several decades in the past and from a long dead leader - that places you in control! It worked then and it works today. The politics of organizations is absolutely no different today and every religious leader has some sign from God placing them in charge. Maybe I’m a little cynical but people and the quest for power and authority haven’t changed much in 2000 years.

So that’s my take on it - I prefer to follow Jesus as the early Christians did, without the thousands of pages of laws, disciplines, regulations, without etc. His message was really pretty simple and very beautiful but it’s often very hard to find in any church.

And I don’t care if you, or any one else, wants to revoke my ability to pursue catholicism, bar the door to the church, or just not understand why I hang around. Like I said before, it’s between me and God and maybe you and I will be be in total agreement someday.

That’s the problem with liberals. The truth is shown to them directly quote for quote from the Bible, like WHAAAAM…in your face…and they’re speechless ! They don’t know how to deal with it so they like…“uh…um…but there is no way to know if it is a quote from Jesus or how accurately it is retold…”

If you doubts a certain passage in the Bible because you can’t handle the truth, then why not doubt the whole Bible. The Bible is either all or nothing. Be consistent, like Muslims. They reject the whole Bible, but don’t pick and choose whatever passage suite you. Always give a bunch of nonsense excuses…play fair will you!

 

[legeorge]

Nohome:

No, I have the same difficulty with other denominations as I do with the RCC. Hence my name “nohome”

Nohome

You have a home. You just ran away from home. When you’re ready to come back home, the Father will be waiting for you with open arms and will prepare a banquet for you beyond your expectations.

 

[legeorge]

Jennifer123:

Mt. 11:28-30"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

**Jesus tells us to be a sign of contradiction. The biggest contradiction I’ve found so far in living within the authority of the Church is that living under all these “rules” is so freeing! I’ve never felt so free than when I’m under His yoke. ** The world tells us freedom means no rules, but that’s folly. Rules give us freedom. I’m no longer a slave to my actions, thoughts or opinions.

:twocents:

Amen sister!!
This is perfect and I thought it needed to be re-posted. (I addded the bold emphasis).

Those who are slaves to their own human weaknesses, have difficulty accepting such things. That whole thing about dying to self and accepting our crosses and following Jesus is very, very hard for many in this world. Because this world is all about self. What “I” think. What “I” feel. What “I” believe. It’s hard to give that up.

 

[Penny_Plain]

cathgal:

If you doubts a certain passage in the Bible because you can’t handle the truth, then why not doubt the whole Bible. The Bible is either all or nothing.

Are we, as Catholics, required to believe that the entire Bible is literally true?

 

[buffalo]

Penny Plain:

Are we, as Catholics, required to believe that the entire Bible is literally true?

Per the Catechism:

13 2. Read the Scripture within “the living Tradition of the whole Church”. According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church’s heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God’s Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).

114 3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By “analogy of faith” we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.

The senses of Scripture

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two *senses *of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: **"All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83 **

117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.

1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.85
3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86

118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses: The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87 119 "It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgement. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."88

But I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me.89

 

[mikew262]

Penny Plain:

Are we, as Catholics, required to believe that the entire Bible is literally true?

Our parish priest once told my teenage daughter, that the Bible is just a series of stories designed to explain God’s word/plan to us. Of course, I’m paraphrasing.

I tend to put more literal truth in the NT vs. the OT. The Bible has been translated so many times over the centuries, IMO some of original meaning/designed intent has probably been lost. However, the Catholic Church has their official interpretation of the Scriptures, the interpretation as Catholics we are supposed to follow.

 

[mike182d]

mikew262:

I tend to put more literal truth in the NT vs. the OT.

That’s the whole problem. The Truth of the NT and OT is not dependent upon us or how we feel about it. That’s why someone is a Catholic verses a Protestant.

 

[mikew262]

mike182d:

That’s the whole problem. The Truth of the NT and OT is not dependent upon us or how we feel about it. That’s why someone is a Catholic verses a Protestant.

Point taken. I suppose it comes down to whether you are in total agreement with the Church’s interpretation.

 

[byHisGrace]

mikew262:

Point taken. I suppose it comes down to whether you are in total agreement with the Church’s interpretation.

mikew262,

Are you in total agreement with the Church’s interpretation?

 

[mikew262]

byHisGrace:

mikew262,

Are you in total agreement with the Church’s interpretation?

I suppose for the most part, yes. Totally, probably not, but it depends upon the passage. You have theologians and clergy within the Church that sometimes disagree.

 

[maklavan]

In the same vein, Right -wing Catholics who reject Vatican Council 2 and defy the Popes since 1962 should leave the Catholic Church since they are in defiance of its teachings.

 

[byHisGrace]

mikew262:

I suppose for the most part, yes.

…less than a roaring endorsement, Mike…but I’ll leave it alone so as not to derail the thread!

 

[mikew262]

maklavan:

In the same vein, Right -wing Catholics who reject Vatican Council 2 and defy the Popes since 1962 should leave the Catholic Church since they are in defiance of its teachings.

Good point!

 

[mikew262]

…less than a roaring endorsement, Mike…but I’ll leave it alone so as not to derail the thread!

See my edited post.

 

[cathgal]

mikew262:

You have theologians and clergy within the Church that sometimes disagree.

They do not hold the keys.

 

[rlg94086]

Many “orthodox” Catholics on this Forum have made (and argued) that same point. Of course, by separating themselves as the SSPX have done, some of them did leave the Church.

maklavan:

In the same vein, Right -wing Catholics who reject Vatican Council 2 and defy the Popes since 1962 should leave the Catholic Church since they are in defiance of its teachings.

 

[mike182d]

byHisGrace:

mikew262,

Are you in total agreement with the Church’s interpretation?

Of course. In humility, what reason do I have not to be?

 

[mike182d]

maklavan:

In the same vein, Right -wing Catholics who reject Vatican Council 2 and defy the Popes since 1962 should leave the Catholic Church since they are in defiance of its teachings.

Absolutely. Especially those right-wing Catholics who have never read the actual documents of Vatican II and oppose the straw man set up by liberals who hijacked the decrees of the council.

 

[mike182d]

mikew262:

I suppose for the most part, yes. Totally, probably not, but it depends upon the passage. You have theologians and clergy within the Church that sometimes disagree.

Not on points of doctrine. Perhaps historicity or perspective, but the doctrinal beliefs about the Christ are not really in dispute. When they are, its usually because of a heretic.

 

[Jennifer123]

legeorge:

Amen sister!!
This is perfect and I thought it needed to be re-posted. (I addded the bold emphasis).

Those who are slaves to their own human weaknesses, have difficulty accepting such things. That whole thing about dying to self and accepting our crosses and following Jesus is very, very hard for many in this world. Because this world is all about self. What “I” think. What “I” feel. What “I” believe. It’s hard to give that up.

Well, thanks. It just seems IMHO it’s so much about “me”, about reconcilling His teachings with how “I” feel. I can’t say I understand everything the Church teaches, and I have concerns specifically about liturgical worship, but I feel it’s best to put my trust not in my own limited understanding (I am only human after all) but in the one Church that has withstood 2000 years of history. There’s only one reason such a thing has existed so long.
Maybe I’m simplistic and I hope not to offend.