Should marijuana be legal?

[Deus_lo_vult]

Not all marijuana comes from Mexico.

Organized crime, Mexican and otherwise, is involved with marijuana for one reason only – they make a lot of money from it. How do they make so much money by selling an easily cultivated weed? I’m guessing its illegality has a lot to do with that. For example, what do you think would happen to the price of corn chips if they were made illegal?

The most expensive, highest quality marijuana comes from outside this country, much of it from Mexico. I know because I lived in Latin America for 4 years.

Call me naive, but I think people who want to abuse children will do so regardless of whether their drug of choice is legal or not.

That is naive. You honestly expect me to believe that alcohol and drugs do not have contributing or aggravating effects on child abuse? People either do things on drugs they would never do, or to a higher degree.

Have you ever seen a bar fight? Alcohol effects judgement. Period. Have you ever seen the horrendous crimes committed by PCP users? Marijuana is also a hallucenogenic drug that distorts reality and consequently judgement and how one reacts to the world.

Child abuse isn’t only violent, it also includes criminal neglect of one’s children.

 

[ahs]

… 53,000 people have been murdered in the drug wars in Mexico. Everytime you buy a marijuana cigarette, chances are the money goes to the animals who run Mexican drug cartels and who have killed tens of thousands of people.

The drug cartels are more powerful than ever, and more violent. Their violence is even pushing into US territory now. How powerful were these drug cartels before marijuana laws were in place? And how much effect has the US had on them by keeping marijuana illegal? Legalize the weed, and the drug cartels fade away…after some violent outbursts against the gov’t, I’d assume. But basically, legalizing marijuana removes their business…the people who smoke don’t need them anymore…because anyone who knows how to water a weed can grow his/her own pot.

75% of all child abuse is done by substance abusers. LEGAL DRUGS and SUBSTANCES like alcohol and prescription drugs are a HUGE component of that number. So, unsurprisingly, I’m not altogether convinced that people wouldn’t be hurt if marijuana was legalized.

I think abusers will be abusers regardless of drugs or alcohol, looking at it from a psychological standpoint. The fact that they abuse substances doesn’t cause their behaviors…it’s just another aspect of their behavior.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

ahs

**I think abusers will be abusers regardless of drugs or alcohol, looking at it from a psychological standpoint. The fact that they abuse substances doesn’t cause their behaviors…it’s just another aspect of their behavior. **

Marijuana … gateway drug.

“Robert Downey Jr.’s addiction to drugs started with Marijuana when he was only 6 years old. He was surrounded by drugs, and that was the type of home he grew up in. By the age of 22 he had developed a serious drug problem. He went through his first rehab in 1987, and in 1996 was arrested three times on drug and weapons charges. For the next few years, Downey went in and out of prison and rehab. He continued to use Crack Cocaine and Heroin. Despite this he continued to act and even won an award on the TV series Ally McBeal all while living in a residential treatment facility. A few months later came another arrest for felony drug possession. Before this even came to trial he was arrested yet again. Despite being sober for over five years now, Robert Downey Jr. still gets stopped by police officers who think he might be under the influence.”

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Marijuana … gateway drug.

“Drew Barrymore began drinking and smoking cigarettes by the age of 9. By the age of 10 she was smoking Marijuana, and by 12 she began snorting Cocaine. Fortunately, by the time Drew entered adulthood, she overcame her substance abuse problems.”

psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1993-10019-001

jstor.org/pss/40325834

acde.org/common/Marijana.htm

 

[cornbread_r2]

[snip]

That is naive. You honestly expect me to believe that alcohol and drugs do not have contributing or aggravating effects on child abuse? People either do things on drugs they would never do, or to a higher degree.

Have you ever seen a bar fight? Alcohol effects judgement. Period. Have you ever seen the horrendous crimes committed by PCP users? Marijuana is also a hallucenogenic drug that distorts reality and consequently judgement and how one reacts to the world.

Child abuse isn’t only violent, it also includes criminal neglect of one’s children.

I agree with all of that. What I didn’t agree with was that marijuana users would be more likely to abuse children if that drug was legalized. If that wasn’t what you implied in your original post then nvm.

Also, there’s nothing that says that the money saved on drug enforcement, prosecution and incarceration can’t be used on more cost-effective drug-use-prevention and education programs. Families also benefit from those programs.

 

[iloveangels]

No. Because then I’d have to dodge not only drunks & cell phone users but potheads TOO. As if the roads weren’t bad enough already.

 

[cornbread_r2]

**

Marijuana … gateway drug**.

"Drew Barrymore began drinking and smoking cigarettes by the age of 9. By the age of 10 she was smoking Marijuana, and by 12 she began snorting Cocaine. Fortunately, by the time Drew entered adulthood, she overcame her substance abuse problems."

Perhaps this isn’t the best example.

 

[ahs]

…Marijuana … gateway drug.

“Robert Downey Jr.’s addiction to drugs started with Marijuana when he was only 6 years old. He was surrounded by drugs, and that was the type of home he grew up in.…”

Marijuana … gateway drug.

“Drew Barrymore began drinking and smoking cigarettes by the age of 9. By the age of 10 she was smoking Marijuana, and by 12 she began snorting Cocaine. Fortunately, by the time Drew entered adulthood, she overcame her substance abuse problems.”

I can see the point about it being a gateway drug. But I think these particular cases need deeper consideration. Downey started at 6 years old…it’s the type of home he grew up in. He didn’t go searching for it one day wanting to experiment with drugs. He grew up thinking it was a normal part of life…and some adult allowed this. Same with Berrymore. Who was responsible for her starting to drink and smoke by age 9? 9 year olds don’t go out looking for a high or a buzz…soemthing or someone who is responsible for them tells them (by word or action) that it’s okay, that it’s normal, acceptable, etc…

These two cases would more closely fall under child abuse, not drug abuse. The fact that drugs were involved is peripheral, not central to the problem. There was a deeper issue going on that led to drug use. And, if you take a moment to reflect on who today’s current drug users are, where they are, what they live through, I think you may find a common theme. These people would be hooked on drug ‘x,y,z’ regardless. They are either doing what they grew up thinking to be the norm, or searching for an escape from something. This becomes a spiritual/psychological issue, one of people needing spiritual/emotional/psycho-therapy…drugs just happen to be the choice medicine to treat their pain. Some turn to illegal drugs, some to legal drugs, some to food, some to isolation, etc… It isn’t that the drugs are inherently bad. It’s that people are prone to abuse them because of some deeper problem that needs to be dealt with.

Instead of a war on drugs, we should be waging a war on abuse, neglect, spiritual lukewarm-ness, etc…things that happen because of other deeper issues, with drugs being involved only peripherally.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I can see the point about it being a gateway drug. But I think these particular cases need deeper consideration. Downey started at 6 years old…it’s the type of home he grew up in. He didn’t go searching for it one day wanting to experiment with drugs. He grew up thinking it was a normal part of life…and some adult allowed this. Same with Berrymore. Who was responsible for her starting to drink and smoke by age 9? 9 year olds don’t go out looking for a high or a buzz…soemthing or someone who is responsible for them tells them (by word or action) that it’s okay, that it’s normal, acceptable, etc…

These two cases would more closely fall under child abuse, not drug abuse. The fact that drugs were involved is peripheral, not central to the problem. There was a deeper issue going on that led to drug use. And, if you take a moment to reflect on who today’s current drug users are, where they are, what they live through, I think you may find a common theme. These people would be hooked on drug ‘x,y,z’ regardless. They are either doing what they grew up thinking to be the norm, or searching for an escape from something. This becomes a spiritual/psychological issue, one of people needing spiritual/emotional/psycho-therapy…drugs just happen to be the choice medicine to treat their pain. Some turn to illegal drugs, some to legal drugs, some to food, some to isolation, etc… It isn’t that the drugs are inherently bad. It’s that people are prone to abuse them because of some deeper problem that needs to be dealt with.

Instead of a war on drugs, we should be waging a war on abuse, neglect, spiritual lukewarm-ness, etc…things that happen because of other deeper issues, with drugs being involved only peripherally.

If you want to talk about a gateway drug…lets talk about nicotine and regular tobacco cigarettes.

We need to banish this blight from our midst. I am calling for a War on Tobacco…or has the government started that one and didn’t tell anyone.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Marijuana is a gateway drug. That it is in addition to cigarettes and alcohol is not relevant. As a poster above indicated, we should not be adding more and more gateway drugs to the list of legal substances and getting more and more people hooked on them.

It’s common sense. By this reasoning, all opposition to drug use is stupid. Just let society go awash in drugs. As if it wasn’t already bad enough with illegal drugs, we need more and more legal access to heroine and cocaine and meth, etc.

Kind of like saying, “Hey, not only should prostitution be legal, it should be legal to have a whorehouse in every neighborhood.”

These libertarians are nut cases. Don’t believe them. They are self destructive and want to aid and abet the destruction of every decent human impulse under the phoney cry of “Let freedom ring!”

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Marijuana is a gateway drug. That it is in addition to cigarettes and alcohol is not relevant. As a poster above indicated, we should not be adding more and more gateway drugs to the list of legal substances and getting more and more people hooked on them.

It’s common sense. By this reasoning, all opposition to drug use is stupid. Just let society go awash in drugs. As if it wasn’t already bad enough with illegal drugs, we need more and more legal access access to heroine and cocaine and meth, etc.

Kind of like saying, “Hey, not only should prostitution be legal, it should be legal to have a whorehouse in every neighborhood.”

These libertarians are nut cases. Don’t believe them. They are self destructive and want to aid and abet the destruction of every decent human impulse under the phoney cry of “Let freedom ring!”

Stereotype and generalize much? It is becoming more and more obvious that you have no idea of which you speak and you just like to shout from the top of your “anti-libertarian” soap box. Have fun with that.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Scott

It is becoming more and more obvious that you have no idea of which you speak and you just like to shout from the top of your “anti-libertarian” soap box.

It’s becoming more and more obvious that you are hooked on libertarianism.

I will pray for you!

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Scott

It is becoming more and more obvious that you have no idea of which you speak and you just like to shout from the top of your “anti-libertarian” soap box.

It’s becoming more and more obvious that you are hooked on libertarianism.

I will pray for you!

Great! I am hooked on liberty and the Catholic Church. I work to evangelize with my actions and by talking to people, not by getting the government to impose my moral standards on them. You must really like government power.

 

[runwaymodel]

Marijuana is a gateway drug. That it is in addition to cigarettes and alcohol is not relevant. As a poster above indicated, we should not be adding more and more gateway drugs to the list of legal substances and getting more and more people hooked on them.

It’s common sense. By this reasoning, all opposition to drug use is stupid. Just let society go awash in drugs. As if it wasn’t already bad enough with illegal drugs, we need more and more legal access to heroine and cocaine and meth, etc.

Kind of like saying, “Hey, not only should prostitution be legal, it should be legal to have a whorehouse in every neighborhood.”

These libertarians are nut cases. Don’t believe them. They are self destructive and want to aid and abet the destruction of every decent human impulse under the phoney cry of “Let freedom ring!”

Very valid points I agree with this. Especially with the prostituion. I wouldn’t be surprised if people try to make ridiculous claims in an attempy to legalize prostituion next. Disturbing.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Very valid points I agree with this. Especially with the prostituion. I wouldn’t be surprised if people try to make ridiculous claims in an attempy to legalize prostituion next. Disturbing.

Let me ask you something. Do you think that making a moral problem “illegal” will end the problem?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Scott
**
I work to evangelize with my actions and by talking to people, not by getting the government to impose my moral standards on them. You must really like government power. **

I tend not to like it. It was government power that made abortion on demand possible. It’s government power that has made same-sex marriage possible. It’s government power that has thrown God out of the schools and legalized pornography, prostitution, gambling, etc.

You have said opposing drugs is stupid. But when the government makes them legal, how is that not an exercise of government power? Then the government gets to increase its power through taxing the drugs that are legally sold. You seem not to realize that when the state sanctions any activity, it immediately grows … as pornography has flourished since the Supreme court used the power of the State to permit it.

Government power is inevitable one way or the other. It’s which way that is in question. The way to defend the public, or to help in their corruption. You apparently are for the latter. Then you turn around and say that the opposition to all these freedoms is a kind of moral laziness. I would say just the opposite: that caving in to all these liberties was the laziest morality this country has seen since the Supreme Court’s Dred Scott decision caved in to the phoney “freedom” to own slaves.

Drugs enslave people. They do not make them free. No Catholic should champion a cause that enslaves people under the phoney pretext that one should be free to be enslaved … and the government should encourage one’s enslavement by sanctifying the means to be enslaved.

Even physicians are forbidden by the government to corrupt their patients by submitting to writing a prescription for every drug they demand. That too is government power.

Have you got a problem with it?

 

[runwaymodel]

Let me ask you something. Do you think that making a moral problem “illegal” will end the problem?

One can’t ever control all of mankind but it would certainly deter a vast majority of people. It doesn’t take a lot of intelligence to know that you should avoid doing something illegal. Some people know it is morally wrong and that would stop them, other would use common sense and logic. As for the people who choose to do drugs and break the law, whats their justification? That they have the right and freedom to do what they choose? Not reasonable enough.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Scott

**Do you think that making a moral problem “illegal” will end the problem? **

No. Evil will find its way into the world. The question is: should the government be helping it along?

 

[ahs]

Very valid points I agree with this. Especially with the prostituion. I wouldn’t be surprised if people try to make ridiculous claims in an attempy to legalize prostituion next. Disturbing.

Well, prostitution is intrinsically morally illicit, because of what it is. It is a distortion of what is supposed to be the marital act…it completely flies in the face of the marital embrace as God created it to be and directly harms those who engage in such an act (prostitution).

Drugs are not inherently or intrisically evil, even if they have properties that can be dangerous or mind-altering. Even alcohol can be mind altering. Drugs are only evil in so much as a person abuses them…over-uses them or uses them for a means of escaping reality. So, it’s not the drug that is ilicit, but the excessive use of them. Used in just moderation, or for their intended purpose (whatever it may be), drugs are not inherently bad, and sometimes are seen as a good (acetaminophin or naproxen sodium, for example…even hydrocodone).

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

One can’t ever control all of mankind but it would certainly deter a vast majority of people. It doesn’t take a lot of intelligence to know that you should avoid doing something illegal. Some people know it is morally wrong and that would stop them, other would use common sense and logic. As for the people who choose to do drugs and break the law, whats their justification? That they have the right and freedom to do what they choose? Not reasonable enough.

We made drugs illegal and all it did was create a big government bureaucracy, millions of incarcerated people who often times become worse criminals than they started, and violent, well-armed drug cartels and dealers. It hasn’t stopped it at all. I even posted articles about how drug abuse rates went down in Portugal after the decriminalizing drugs. It puts to rest the idea that the country would turn into a nation of drug zombies. I even put up material that suggests that in environments where there were no rules whatsoever, people collectivize and create norms of behavior that are considered “positive”, in other words, people “behaved” even when there were no rules compelling them to do so.