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terryobrien80
Guest
The same person Peter didWho does the Pope answer to eventually?
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otjm
Guest
It seems we have a great deal of confabulation to the OPās question, most of which really doesnāt go to answer the question: should her daughter serve or not?
Given that she (the daughter) has asked the question, one could safely presume that other young girls are serving in her parish. And I would submit that unless there are a limited number of slots for servers, it will not practically make one whit of difference in the overall world scheme of vocations - shortage or otherwise - if her daughter does serve. If she cannot legitimately be shown to be excluding an otherwise qualified boy from serving, all the hoo hah about what Rome says, or allows, or prefers, is simply moot. If Rome were to decide that no more girls may serve - or the head of her diocese - bishop or archbishop - or the pastor - then the point would also be moot. But given the question, one is reasonably safe in presuming that none of the authorites have so decided.
The question as to vocation promotion, whether it is meanignful or not, is then only at risk if by this daughterās participation, a boy is excluded. Not if a boy thereby doesnāt want to serve because girls serve (kooties and all that), because her service is no more likely to stop a boy from serving than any of the other girls who are already serving. Her presence or absence is not going to change the fact that other girls are serving; her parentās decision to not let her serve will not change that fact.
The case then becomes whether or not the parents will allow her to serve. The possiblity that she might be swayed by service to some day later demand ordination is a stretch of credulity; that is what catechesis by the parents is supposed to be about. In short, that is a non-issue. The likelyhood of her later finding a vocation in an order of nuns is more likely; not that it is necessarily likely. There are a whole lot of boys over the centuries who served Mass and discerned no vocation to the priesthood; she may likewise discern no vocation to an order of nuns.
The net result is that Rome has grumbled about it but done nothing to change it. Anything beyond that as to Romeās intentions is pure speculation.
While Rome may posit that it is a good way to encourage vocations (and I would not disagree), I would suggest that given the world we live in - and we can start with what is on TV and cable, available to most children either at their home or a friendās - is by far a worse problem to deal with, and far more critical in terms of future vocations than whether or not girls serve.
If the parents choose to not let her serve, they will have an unhappy camper on their hands, and one who will be reminded that she has been āselected outā each time she goes to Mass. Life is tough, parents make decisions all the time that kids donāt agree with, and the odds are reasonable that she will survive it intact.
If they let her serve, it is entirlely possible she may grow closer to Christ. Ultimately it is the parentsā call. All things being equal, it seems she will not be harmed spiritually by serving. And if she canāt serve, well, they can deal with her attitude.
Given that she (the daughter) has asked the question, one could safely presume that other young girls are serving in her parish. And I would submit that unless there are a limited number of slots for servers, it will not practically make one whit of difference in the overall world scheme of vocations - shortage or otherwise - if her daughter does serve. If she cannot legitimately be shown to be excluding an otherwise qualified boy from serving, all the hoo hah about what Rome says, or allows, or prefers, is simply moot. If Rome were to decide that no more girls may serve - or the head of her diocese - bishop or archbishop - or the pastor - then the point would also be moot. But given the question, one is reasonably safe in presuming that none of the authorites have so decided.
The question as to vocation promotion, whether it is meanignful or not, is then only at risk if by this daughterās participation, a boy is excluded. Not if a boy thereby doesnāt want to serve because girls serve (kooties and all that), because her service is no more likely to stop a boy from serving than any of the other girls who are already serving. Her presence or absence is not going to change the fact that other girls are serving; her parentās decision to not let her serve will not change that fact.
The case then becomes whether or not the parents will allow her to serve. The possiblity that she might be swayed by service to some day later demand ordination is a stretch of credulity; that is what catechesis by the parents is supposed to be about. In short, that is a non-issue. The likelyhood of her later finding a vocation in an order of nuns is more likely; not that it is necessarily likely. There are a whole lot of boys over the centuries who served Mass and discerned no vocation to the priesthood; she may likewise discern no vocation to an order of nuns.
The net result is that Rome has grumbled about it but done nothing to change it. Anything beyond that as to Romeās intentions is pure speculation.
While Rome may posit that it is a good way to encourage vocations (and I would not disagree), I would suggest that given the world we live in - and we can start with what is on TV and cable, available to most children either at their home or a friendās - is by far a worse problem to deal with, and far more critical in terms of future vocations than whether or not girls serve.
If the parents choose to not let her serve, they will have an unhappy camper on their hands, and one who will be reminded that she has been āselected outā each time she goes to Mass. Life is tough, parents make decisions all the time that kids donāt agree with, and the odds are reasonable that she will survive it intact.
If they let her serve, it is entirlely possible she may grow closer to Christ. Ultimately it is the parentsā call. All things being equal, it seems she will not be harmed spiritually by serving. And if she canāt serve, well, they can deal with her attitude.
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UKcatholicGuy
Guest
Look at the confusion that has been wrought by that disastrous, novel decision to allow female altar boys!
No, your daughter should not be an altar boy because the perennial Church has always forbidden it. Just because a pope approved it out of apparent weakness doesnāt mean itās now a good thing. There is a reason it has been limited to boys only since time immemorial.
Pax.
No, your daughter should not be an altar boy because the perennial Church has always forbidden it. Just because a pope approved it out of apparent weakness doesnāt mean itās now a good thing. There is a reason it has been limited to boys only since time immemorial.
Pax.
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terryobrien80
Guest
Wooweee. There aināt many like you left in jolly olā England, are there. LOL
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LaLucia
Guest
Our Catholic church has opened the opportunity for girls to be alter girls. THE DOOR IS OPENā¦
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I_Believe
Guest
I think your opinion is a solid opinion as a Roman Catholic, and as her parent you have every right to make the decision you obviously want to make regarding this.
Follow your heart.
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Dauphin
Guest
The introduction of altar girls is simply a method used by modernists to gain the gradual introduction of female clergy. Getting them young, and placing them in a position which was always generally reserved for potential priests is an effective way of subverting the Churchās doctrine.
It is certain to bear fruit in the future.
Although there is no objective evil in a girl serving the Mass, my advice is to refrain from getting your child involved in this novelty. Catholic girls were perfectly spiritually well-nourished for two millenia without serving at the altar. Ultimately, the introduction of altar girls is part of a trend which seeks to usurp the unique role given to men by Christ. It would be wrong to participate in it.
It is certain to bear fruit in the future.
Although there is no objective evil in a girl serving the Mass, my advice is to refrain from getting your child involved in this novelty. Catholic girls were perfectly spiritually well-nourished for two millenia without serving at the altar. Ultimately, the introduction of altar girls is part of a trend which seeks to usurp the unique role given to men by Christ. It would be wrong to participate in it.
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terryobrien80
Guest
So what. I have been to Catholic parishes that commit outrigiht heresy. There is an interesting little factoid that people should bear in mind when they say that their priest allows this or that: Every well known heretic in history started out as a priest, all the way from the arch-heretic Arius, up to Martin L:uther. Arch Bishop Levebre is a learned bishop - and a schismatic. Just because a priest says something, never take it as gospel truth. Shoot, Iāve had knock-down drag-out arguments with liberal priests before who were directly contradicting Church teaching.
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terryobrien80
Guest
Excellent Post !!!
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Yellow_Belle
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GemmaRose
Guest
As to the emphasized paragraph. . .
Does this mean that men do not have inherent dignity and thus must do something to obtain it?
Or. . .
Does it mean that preventing women from doing something is somehow a means to respect their dignity?
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GemmaRose
Guest
*]There is no evidence that male-only altar servers foster priestly vocations.
*]If the āBlessed Imelda Societyā wants more girls to be nuns, then they should advertise themselves better. I have been deeply involved in the Church for 35 years and Iāve never heard of them before.
*]Many, many parishes have no convents and therefore no Sisters to hang around.
*]Many pastors donāt let children under 18 get involved in any service groups (except altar servers), so if there is not a childrenās choir, there is absolutely no outlet for a little girl who wants to serve God.
Itās just amazing how many people are so mean-spirited as to want to deny this role of service to little girls.
(As if our Loving God would be offended if a little girl He created carried a Cross or a candle! )
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Michael038
Guest
I can see both sides to this arguement. I feel that since our late Pope John Paul 2 authorized this, then it is ok. I believe that the pope is inspired by the Holy Spirit in his role as shepard of the Catholic church. I understand that being an altar boy may inspire a young man to be a priest, but who is to say that being a female altar server will not inspire a little girl to become a nun someday? I feel personally that if I am to receive the Eucharist I need to be in full communion with the Roman Catholic church and everything that it decides. If one is in opposition to a rule that is decided by the Holy Father are they really in full communion with the church? Remember Jesus told our first pope St. Peter that he gave him the keys to the kingdom and whatever he decided on earth is bound in Heaven.
Just some thoughts.
Peace of Christ be with you all.
Just some thoughts.
Peace of Christ be with you all.
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terryobrien80
Guest
Well, lets see:
Before Vatican II = Lots of priests
Today = Very few priests
Numbers donāt lie
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snhs
Guest
Being in full Communion with the Church does not extend to supporting every act or decision a Pope makes. I donāt think anyone has said that the Pope overstepped his authority in allowing Altar girls, it had been a discipline which he as Pope could change. That does not mean that we must believe it was right to change it. He also did not say that everyone must allow Altar girls, indeed gave explicit permission to Bishops, Parish Priests and any other Priest for that matter not to have Altar girls.
In fact ironically enough those of us who would prefer Altar boys only are more in accord with the Pope than those of you advocating Altar girls, because in Rome, the Popeās own Diocese, neither Pope John Paul II nor Pope Benedict have allowed Altar girls.
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Michael038
Guest
Like I said, I understand both sides to the arguement, but I am going to continue to support the decision that Pope John Paul 2 made.
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snhs
Guest
The Vatican seems to think otherwise.
You are probably not the target age group for the Blessed Imelda Society, perhaps that explains why you arenāt aware of them.
Indeed, and now many, many Parishes have no Priests or must share a Priest with several other Parishes.
Iād have thought Eucharistic Adoration was open to everyone. Its very easy to see why you are trying to cast it in this way, āoh the poor little girls wonāt be able to serve God if we donāt let them be Altar girlsā. That is of course false, they can serve him through prayer either before the Blessed Sacrament or in private, or some of their mothers who are often so vocal in insisting they should in the same group as the Altar boys could get off their backsides and set up a group for their daughters to join that does not involve destroying the link between serving at the Altar and the vocation to the Priesthood.
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snhs
Guest
The decision Pope John Paul II made not to allow Altar girls in his Diocese?
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Yellow_Belle
Guest
Vatican II - 1962-1965
Female altar servers permitted - 1994
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terryobrien80
Guest
Female altar servers permitted - 1994
Desperate shortage of priests - 2008
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