Should people be allowed to wear shorts and sandals at Mass?

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Catholic 90, you are showing your lack of respect for men, by your attitude that your dress is unimportant in Mass. Read in an Examination of Conscience, Scepter has a good one. It says it is sinful to distract by your dress or posture during Mass.
Obviously, if you are dressing modestly, you can say that you are being helpful, rather than a hindrance and then you can rightfully say to the man with problems with lust during Mass, “yes, exercise that will power and pray harder.” But it is simply uncharitable to say like Cain, “I’m not my brother’s keeper”, and refuse to help a brother worship God, instead of a woman’s body by not dressing modestly.
God made men to be very visual and in fact the act of looking at women lustfully causes a chemical reaction in the man’s brain which is pleasurable (endomorphins are released) and thus the beginnings of addiction are there if this is repeated.

And yes, men are at a definite spiritual disadvantage, compared to us women. And I should know, I live with 8 of them and I grew up the only girl with five brothers! I have to keep them all in line, including my husband! St. Jose Marie Escriva wrote that wives should treat their husbands like their youngest son!

Read Colleen Mast’s new book, “Dressing with Dignity” available from Tan Books. It is a real eye opener. You will be very surprised. She used to model, act and be on the Weather Channel, and almost went to the Today Show. But then she had a conversion.

You know, when I was a Protestant Fundamentalist, the way out of contradictions and conflicts about sinful actions was that, “the most important thing is what is in the heart”. The Gnostics disdained matter and the body. Protestantism has a definite overtone of it. I was a cradle Fundamentalist descended from a family on both sides which has been Protestant for the last several hundred years.

Yes, we dressed up for church. (You have to realise there is a lot of clubbiness about Protestant congregations. Most are all middle class. And there is a tremendous amount of social interaction during the service as well as afterwards). But the belief that the body and this world are bad is basic to Protestantism. (You know about Martin Luther and John Calvin’s belief that we are depraved dung covered with the white snow of grace from faith alone.)

If anyone was sick or in pain in my family, we just had to kind of grit our teeth and bear it since we were such unworthy sinners. We deserved to suffer, even if there were simple remedies available. We did not deserve to have fun or celebrate anything because we were just wretched human beings and it was all an evil distraction from the “real” life of the spirit, from what was in our hearts. Our idea of holiness was to be freed of the depraved world around us, “to worship God in (literally) spirit and in truth”.
 
If anyone was sick or in pain in my family, we just had to kind of grit our teeth and bear it since we were such unworthy sinners. We deserved to suffer, even if there were simple remedies available. We did not deserve to have fun or celebrate anything because we were just wretched human beings and it was all an evil distraction from the “real” life of the spirit, from what was in our hearts. Our idea of holiness was to be freed of the depraved world around us, “to worship God in (literally) spirit and in truth”.
First of all, what does that have to do with the topic at hand. Secondly, Jesus Christ didn’t die so you could live your life in misery.
 
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General:
My guess is that wearing shorts has never prevented an altar server from fainting at your parish. Allowing kids to wear shorts while they serve is simply asinine. Now THAT’S a charitable comment.
WHY?? Who will see the shorts??
If wearing shorts allows the servers to be more comfortable, what is so wrong with that?? Or should EVERYONE be hot, uncomfortable, and miserable while we attend mass? :rolleyes:

I allow my boys to wear dress shorts when they serve at mass. The priest has commented to them that he wishes HE could wear shorts under all his layers, but unfortunately, people would talk. No one sees their shorts, they wear dressy sandals (much like monk’s sandles), and they do a great job serving. What is the problem with that?
 
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Leeta:
Catholic 90, you are showing your lack of respect for men, by your attitude that your dress is unimportant in Mass. Read in an Examination of Conscience, Scepter has a good one. It says it is sinful to distract by your dress or posture during Mass.
Obviously, if you are dressing modestly, you can say that you are being helpful, rather than a hindrance and then you can rightfully say to the man with problems with lust during Mass, “yes, exercise that will power and pray harder.” But it is simply uncharitable to say like Cain, “I’m not my brother’s keeper”, and refuse to help a brother worship God, instead of a woman’s body by not dressing modestly.
God made men to be very visual and in fact the act of looking at women lustfully causes a chemical reaction in the man’s brain which is pleasurable (endomorphins are released) and thus the beginnings of addiction are there if this is repeated.

Someone mentioned her sex addict brother was aroused by women wearing dresses. So, no shorts, no pants, no dresses, skirts only in touching the ground, no arm…basically covered from head to toe.

And yes, men are at a definite spiritual disadvantage, compared to us women. And I should know, I live with 8 of them and I grew up the only girl with five brothers! I have to keep them all in line, including my husband! St. Jose Marie Escriva wrote that wives should treat their husbands like their youngest son!

My husband is far more spiritual than I am. My husband is looking for a wife, not a mother. He already has a mother.

Read Colleen Mast’s new book, “Dressing with Dignity” available from Tan Books. It is a real eye opener. You will be very surprised. She used to model, act and be on the Weather Channel, and almost went to the Today Show. But then she had a conversion.

I don’t dress like a model, nor am I on TV. Some tv personalities do dress very immodestly.

You know, when I was a Protestant Fundamentalist, the way out of contradictions and conflicts about sinful actions was that, “the most important thing is what is in the heart”. The Gnostics disdained matter and the body. Protestantism has a definite overtone of it. I was a cradle Fundamentalist descended from a family on both sides which has been Protestant for the last several hundred years.

And…?

Yes, we dressed up for church. (You have to realise there is a lot of clubbiness about Protestant congregations. Most are all middle class. And there is a tremendous amount of social interaction during the service as well as afterwards). But the belief that the body and this world are bad is basic to Protestantism. (You know about Martin Luther and John Calvin’s belief that we are depraved dung covered with the white snow of grace from faith alone.)

I grew up Lutheran. We dressed up, but shorts and sleeveless tops were allowed. Still are. I attended my old Lutheran church this summer with my parents.

If anyone was sick or in pain in my family, we just had to kind of grit our teeth and bear it since we were such unworthy sinners. We deserved to suffer, even if there were simple remedies available. We did not deserve to have fun or celebrate anything because we were just wretched human beings and it was all an evil distraction from the “real” life of the spirit, from what was in our hearts. Our idea of holiness was to be freed of the depraved world around us, “to worship God in (literally) spirit and in truth”.
That is just odd. I’m sorry, but that is strange. God did not put us on this earth to be miserable.
(and just what does this have to do with the original thread??)
 
Catholic90 said:
WHY?? Who will see the shorts??
If wearing shorts allows the servers to be more comfortable, what is so wrong with that?? Or should EVERYONE be hot, uncomfortable, and miserable while we attend mass? :rolleyes:

I allow my boys to wear dress shorts when they serve at mass. The priest has commented to them that he wishes HE could wear shorts under all his layers, but unfortunately, people would talk. No one sees their shorts, they wear dressy sandals (much like monk’s sandles), and they do a great job serving. What is the problem with that?

If you really have to ask…

BTW, if their albs actually did 100% disguise the fact they are wearing shorts (which I’m certain they don’t), what keeps your priest from following suit? After all, who would know?
 
Actually, I believe they should know better. Remember, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is just that, a sacrifice, not entertainment and not all about comfort and convenience.
 
I also live in CA and yeah–its hot! Also, I wear sandals everywhere, even in winter. I with with the cultural indoctrination crowd, I see no problem with it if you are dressing nicely and respectfully. I would wear an open toe nice sandal out to a nice dinner. I always dress modestly. I am not big on shorts, more into skirts, but I will let my daughter wear a nice pair of shorts or capris to church and her sandals.
 
we are always in robes and sandles at mass, but we are benedictine monks. 🙂
 
If I were going to meet the President of the United States or the Queen of England, I would be ashamed of myself if I didn’t wear the most modest and formal clothing that were available to me. Shouldn’t I have the same attitude when I come into the presence of the King of Kings at Holy Mass? He is truly present, after all.
 
I just fail to understand why the only two options have to be 1) inappropriate, scandalous, immodest clothing or 2) miserably uncomfortable, stiff, too-hot, traditional formal wear. It is possible to put together an outfit that is comfortable, cool, dressy, and modest. It does, however, require thinking outside the (suit) box and using one’s imagination. 🙂

**Crazy Internet Junkies Society
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
 
Jeus is concerned about what’s in your heart, not on your body. I read this over and over. Being modest, when you visit Jesus, is about, what’s in your heart. If you had the chance to meet Jesus face to face, what would you wear? Shorts because, you’re going to a picnic afterwards. Jesus doesn’t deserve a little more effort, than the picnic. You are meeting Jesus every time you go to mass. Come on, slacks or skirts or not that much warmer on a hot day.
 
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CarolAnnSFO:
I just fail to understand why the only two options have to be 1) inappropriate, scandalous, immodest clothing or 2) miserably uncomfortable, stiff, too-hot, traditional formal wear. It is possible to put together an outfit that is comfortable, cool, dressy, and modest. It does, however, require thinking outside the (suit) box and using one’s imagination. 🙂

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
Exactly. My dress shorts certainly are not immodest or scandalous. I’m not wearing my gym shorts or my spaghetti strap tanks. I’m wearing very nice dress shorts with a very nice blouse that happens to be sleeveless (but very nice and dressy). I don’t own a “formal” thing, except for 1 sparkly holiday cocktail dress that is far more immodest than my shorts!
I teach in the winter and stay at home with my kids in the summer, so I don’t have a great need for many super dressy clothes! And I refuse to spend the money on them!! I think that money is better spent supporting my kids’ schools, paying their tuition, supporting charities. In the winter, I will wear what I wear to teach - dress slacks and sweaters.
 
Ed Patton:
If I were going to meet the President of the United States or the Queen of England, I would be ashamed of myself if I didn’t wear the most modest and formal clothing that were available to me. Shouldn’t I have the same attitude when I come into the presence of the King of Kings at Holy Mass? He is truly present, after all.
What is wrong with an audience with the pope, king, or president in shorts and t-shirts? It only matters in the heart right?

But wait, ladies are required to wear mantillas in a private audience with the pope.
Vatican City has a dress code when entering, those vatican folks must be pharisical.
 
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Iohannes:
What is wrong with an audience with the pope, king, or president in shorts and t-shirts? It only matters in the heart right?

But wait, ladies are required to wear mantillas in a private audience with the pope.
Vatican City has a dress code when entering, those vatican folks must be pharisical.
My point was that the way we dress demonstrates the level of respect we have for the person into whose presence we come. If a lawyer appeared in court in shorts and sandals, the judge would be justified in holding the attorney in contempt for failure to maintain the proper decorum. Equally important, the same principal applies to our behavior. If all that matters is what’s “in the heart,” as you suggest, then it shouldn’t matter how I behave at Mass. I should be able to laugh, talk, and drink beer with my buddies, as long as I love Jesus “in my heart.” Moreover, whatever is truly “in my heart” will be reflected in how I live, which includes how I dress and behave at Holy Mass.
 
Jesus isn’t some early Judge who cares about if we are wearing a suit or not.
 
I think wearing shorts and sandals is all right if you live in an area where that is accepted and only form of dress you have. India and perhaps the Philippines come to mind. However, in those countries, desperatly poor as they are, the people make some effort to dress up for Mass. Having been stationed in the Philippines, I can tell you that wearing shorts to Mass would be frowned upon and be perceived as insulting to God. Since I would imagine that most people in the U.S, have access to clothing other than shorts and sandals, I don’t think it would hurt to drsss up a little for Mass.

I also think it a bit self serving when people say God or Jesus would not judge them for what they wear or how they act. It seems that Jesus does pretty much what we as individuals want him to do, at least in many peoples minds. As I recall from the Bible Jesus was actually a pretty intense individual, and he expected, no demanded respect towards God and the Temple. Many people seem to forget that in the 60’s era orgy of love and peace towards all that permeates the faith these days…
 
Okay, here’s my take:

Shorts: NEVER
Sandals: Okay (many religious orders wear them as part of their habit)
Flip Flops: NEVER
Sneakers: NEVER
Tank Tops/Hoochie Mama Belly shirts: NEVER

If you want to read more about my hair-raising experience regarding this, read my thread titled “How to deal with rude families at mass”.

Inculturation is a very sticky thing. One must be very careful, or you’ll end up finding a way to justify anything.

If people bring their kids to mass dressed like sex industry professionals, what will they bring their kids to mass looking like?

I’m so sick of justification. Yeah, it’s hot! It’s summer, it’s supposed to be! But the Lord is the Lord, and if our Lord God called you up and asked to meet with you, would you show up dressed like you were headed to the beach? THink of the women and men who attend the Latin Masses. Not only do they cover their legs to the floor 365 days a year, they cover their arms, necks, and with the women, their heads. And most of the indult Tridentine masses are in churches that are quite old and have no air conditioning.

What about the priests? How many of you have been to an un-air conditioned church on a hot summer day and thought about the weight and heat that the priests and servers endure wearing a cassock, surplice and alb? Or the religious? WEaring heavy wool habits, (and nuns often wearing veils that conceal all but their very face) who live in hot areas, with no air conditioning?

Be verrrrrry careful about what you attempt to justify. It’s the beginning of the road that leads to relativism!!!
 
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Mummybee:
What about the priests? How many of you have been to an un-air conditioned church on a hot summer day and thought about the weight and heat that the priests and servers endure wearing a cassock, surplice and alb? Or the religious? WEaring heavy wool habits, (and nuns often wearing veils that conceal all but their very face) who live in hot areas, with no air conditioning?

Be verrrrrry careful about what you attempt to justify. It’s the beginning of the road that leads to relativism!!!
I, for one, am not trying to justify inappropriate clothing – but there is absolutely no need for dressy, modest clothing to be stiff, hot, or uncomfortable. Like I said before, it just takes a little imagination. There are six ways to Sunday to look modest and dressed up without having to resort to an uncomfortable, heavy wool suit. Last Sunday, if you had seen me, you would have seen very little of my figure or skin, yet I was wearing clothes that were cool and comfortable (and among my dressiest).

The nuns I see at Mass in the summertime are wearing lightweight summer habits (often with sandals), not heavy wool. I see nuns from several different orders at Mass (even more when we have visiting nuns), and this approach seems quite common.

The priests, alas, are stuck – black trousers and shirt (at least they’re short-sleeved in the summer), with all the vestments over it. I’m assuming the sacrament of Holy Orders gives them the necessary graces to handle it. 😉

**Crazy Internet Junkies Society
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
 
…i visited Rome in July of 2003…

…they would not allow shorts above the knees in St Peter’s…

…i didn’t object to the rules…

Note that the Vatican has a dress code for visitors and tanktops or shorts are not normally permitted.

Peace:thumbsup:
 
The absolute minimum I would wear to Mass:
  • Long sleeved shirts with a collar (yes, even in the summer)
  • No shorts or blue jeans (absolutely never, although I have worn a pair of black jeans in pristine condition to Mass. Docker-type trousers are OK.)
  • No sneakers.
All of the above in clean/pressed/shined condition. Yes, I often dress more formally for the Mass, but the above is a minimum – yes, even on vacation or a cruise.
 
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