T
Tsuwano
Guest
No, the Pope should not resign.
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J
Jermosh
Guest
No there is not.
This means what? He could have no jurisdiction being a pastor in a convent in DC and not be the pastor of the most prestigious parish in the world, not “very” mind you, the most.
They explained this when he was given the position, any apartment in or near the Vatican is going to be multi $Million. He was also given a staff, as is customary for prestigous positions like this. He also took over from a preist.
Stop attempting to make the position light, it is not. He still has full Cardinal powers, he is still the Arch-Priest of the most prestigious parish in the world. This makes him one of the most prestigious roles for an American in the Vatican. He can be a general for a religious order, or be kept as the chaplain at the Sisters of Mercy of Alma convent in MD.
This is exactly how it looks to the world on how a man who directly moved around known pedophile priests and shook one of the top diocese in the world to bankruptcy and world disgrace.
bostonmagazine.com/articles/our_man_in_rome/
“Law made similar display of his vitality this past May when some 400 people gathered for a black-tie dinner on the Janiculum Hill, Rome’s highest point. They included Italian aristocrats, Catholic prelates, well-heeled American donors, and even the U.S. ambassador to the Holy See. The dinner was a fundraiser for the Pontifical North American College, the seminary to which bishops from the United States send their most promising candidates for the priesthood. These future leaders had set aside their theological studies for the evening to serve as waiters, and even musicians, performing Sinatra tunes after the guests had enjoyed their dinner of baked pasta and fillet of beef. A few feet from the stage sat Cardinal Law.”
Do you even understand how much an event like this would cost, how prestigious it is. 99.99% of Americans would never be able to be at such an event. I would practically give my kidney to be at such an event, in fact I almost would. The power and prestige of that event is immense, the mean IQ would be in the 150s at the least. Priests are highly educated and usually fantastically talanted to begin with, and we have the best of the best serving food and play with fiddles.
In the end, I have to trust JPIItG decision on this, he made it for what ever reason unknown to us and others. This does not mean I have to like it, this does nothing to help us heal from this scandal. Yes I agree that the Church was put into a bad light from the MSM, but in the end the facts remain that it happened and it happened in the hands of the Hierarchy. Law should have resigned like the responsible bishops did in Ireland, but instead of that he is still being rewarded.
R
Reepicheep
Guest
It’s true that your question was hypothetical.
Here’s another hypothetical question, Rascalking.
What should you be expected to do if you discovered that a member of your family was murdering prostitutes?
Tell us honestly what you should do in that case.
If your answer is an indignant complaint about my insulting suggestion, then you will understand my response to your hypothetical qusiton about the Holy Father.
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Rascalking
Guest
I would notify the police immediately, testify against my member of the family and it would break my heart. Innocent life trumps family ties.
I gave you the decency of answering your question, please answer mine in the same way.
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Reepicheep
Guest
All right, you’ve made a fair point. Here’s my answer.
I don’ t know what canon law has to say about the Pope’s ability to step down.
If he were proven guilty of the things being said against him, and if resignation is possible, then I would think he ought to resign.
That being said: I am convinced that the accusations are false, mostly trumped up by enemies of Mother Church.
I am convinced that none of this will ever be proven true because none of it is true.
O
oldsinnner
Guest
It would mean he is the 11th Pope to resign the Papacy and the Church will go on.
O
oldsinnner
Guest
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Rascalking
Guest
I return the compliment.
S
St_Kevin
Guest
yes he should. although he was better John Paul on this issue, he still played a role in the cover-up of abuse of children.
C
CradleCath
Guest
While Joseph Druce pleaded insanity due to the fact that he, himself, had been molested as a child, I did not know that he was actually PROVEN insane. Hopefully, you can provide substantiation for your claim. Meanwhile, are you saying that all “people who hate pedophiles” are locked up in prison?
The “full knowledge of the hierarchy” usually came after the first (or second or third) offense. Many of our Bishops sent the offenders to St. Lukes for pyschological help, as homosexuality & pederasty were thought, at that time, to be a form of mental illness & curable. In fact, many of these men were pronounced “cured” & sent back to their Bishops by the psychiatrists. One noteworthy bit is that the head of this hospital, Father Michael Peterson, died of AIDS in 1987.
Some of our hierarchy were homosexual/ pederasts themselves &, as such, so afraid of blackmail that they moved these priests around for protection for themselves.
**Others had knowingly ordained gays & that has been always been forbidden in the Catholic Church. John XXIII, Himself, in 1961… approved a formal policy to that effect, which still remains in effect. **However, during the 1970s and 1980s, that policy was widely ignored, particularly in North America. Some of our hierarchy kept these men in the priesthood rather than admit that they had been disobedient to the Pope John XXIII & to all of the Church teachings re homosexual priests.
By 1985, (see the Peterson, Mouton report), it was evident that pederasty was not “curable”, therefore any member of our hierarchy who continued to move these men after that is guilty of enabling abusers, a terrible sin.
As for your remark about the 'wierdness" of linking to NAMBLA…I don’t think so, especially since a Catholic priest was invovled in the founding of this horrible group:
The most shocking detail about NAMBLA’s founding conference was the involvement of “Father” Paul Shanley, representative of Boston’s Cardinal [Humberto] Medeiros for sexual minorities…"
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0JZS/is_11_18/ai_n25048769/
I am sickened, hearbroken & angry about these horrendous acts of sexual abuse for which many of our priests are respsonsible. But, I’m not going to pretend that this is a scandal of Pedophilia when it is one of Pederasty…gay priests preying on pubescent & post-pubescent boys. Since Pope Benedict is dealing with the homosexual nature of our abuse crisis, to advise that he should resign is ridiculous.
Educate yourself about this scandal.
C
CradleCath
Guest
I agree wholeheartedly!! However, you must remember that tommorrow is Palm Sunday, followed by Holy Week. Satan is always extra busy during Holy Week!!!
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GEddie
Guest
Not since ca. 1399.
Maybe it does, but what about the many popes who directly presided (unlike any modern Pope) over very hideous actions, since 1399, and were never called upon to resign?
For HH B16 to even consider such a course of action would set a precedent that the Catholic Church is subject to groundswell pressure. It would not recover from that. It will survive the present-day scandals, the way it survived after the Inquisition, after the Reformation, and after the clerical corruption of the Renaissance period.
ICXC NIKA.
R
Rascalking
Guest
Well,you clearly feel strongly about this issue. What’s funny is I’m ashamed to call myself Catholic because of this scandal! Wow! I never called for the resignation of the pope, either.
Comparing what is happening now to the murder of Our Lord troubles me…nothing can be compared to that.
To be fair, maybe you should think about the lives that where ruined by molestation, the cover up that happened, and that fact that good intentions aren’t always enough.
Again, if the same behavior happened in another organization, secular or religious, we would be rightfully furious.
J
JReducation
Guest
You’re missing a point here. In the case of secular priests, not priest who are also religious, no secular priest may be assigned to a lower post than the one that he has. If he is a pastor and is moved to another parish, he goes as a pastor. If not pastorship is available, he is not assigned to another parish, but is in residence there until a pastorship becomes available. You can’t assign a bishop to be a pastor of a parish. A titular Church is a parish, but the pastor is not the caretaker. It may be persigious, but he has not jurisdiction. Meaning that he has no canonical authority to make any decisions over that parish. He can only make decisons on the care of the property and the management of the finances. The care of souls is the responsibility of the pastor who is in absentia, therefore it falls on the Rector.
I had not read this, so I’ll accept your statement. I have no reason to doubt you. But there is an important point here, actually two. Cardinal Law was removed from his diocese and may never have Ordinary jurisdiction again. That is a major punishment to any bishop or major religious superior of men. But the fact remains that he is a Prince of the Church. He is a Regent without a regency. I can understand how they would treat him with the respect that is due to any prince of the Church, even a powerless one. You cannot leave a priest on the street. That’s a violation of canon law.
He has Cardinal powers, he does not have Ordinary powers. There is a big difference between the two. You don’t have to be a priest to be a Cardinal. The last lay Cardinal died about 20 years ago. He had full Cardinal powers, but not Ordinary powers. Cardinal Law can never be an Ordinary again. This means that he cannot function as a bishop except when celebrating the sacraments. But he will not have the duties and rights of a bishop. He has the rights of a Cardinal, to sit on committees, to vote with the Cardinals, and to perform functions that Cardinals perform.
I explained this above. This is illegal. You cannot make a secular person into a religoius unless he wants to be a religious and the superior of the religious order must approve. Then, he has to go through the formation process, which takes 7 years to become a religoius. Only after that, can he run for election to the office of general superior or any other office. The Church does not have the power to force someone into religious life. You must have a calling from Christ. The Church cannot whip out a calling from its sleeves.
The Cardinal can voluntarilly go to live in a religius house, IF the superior allows it. This has happened in the past with bishops who wanted to live a life of penance for their sins. But they volunteered and the superior of the house approved it. You have to remember that we, religious males, are not governed by bishops.
Again,you cannot reduce a bishop to the work of a priest. That is up to him to volunteer. Some bishops have done this as a penance. Bishop Marino of Atlanta did. I became a chaplain in some obscure place.
We cannot ask the Church to do what is in violatioin of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. The most the Church can do to a bishop is to take away his faculties so that he cannot run a diocese again. Even there, if the bishop decided that he is going out and ordain his own men and start his own movement, he has the sacramental and apostolic authority to do soul. He’ll be excommunicated, but he will be valid.
Bruke, Laveda, George, O’Malley all sit on very high positions in the Vatican and have a lot of authority not only in their dioceses, but also in the Universal Church. For example, O’Malley runs Boston, but he is also the sub-prefect for the Congregation on Religoius LIfe and sub-prefect for the Congregation on the Clergy. He has the power to make legistlation for religious and clergy around the world. Of course the Prefect must agree and co-sign. George in the Social Justice Congregation. These Cardinals have Ordinary powers. When they speak in their diocese they are speaking as the local bishop. When they speak from their respective Congregations, they are speaking to the entire Church in the name of the Pope.
Cardinal Law will never have that kind of authority. It has been taken away. He can’t even grant priests jusrisdiction to hear confessions, except in that one Church. He can hear confessioins anywhere, because he’s a bishop.
I don’t know what people want the Church to do with Cardinal Law that does not violate either canon law or the sacrament of Holy Orders… There is a limit to what you can do.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
I
IHeartBenedict
Guest
I can’t believe that the OP question is even seriously considered. The Pope is the Successor of Peter, Vicar or Christ, and Bishop of Rome. Resign? Did Peter resign as an Apostle after he cut of a guys ear or after he denied Christ?
Phhhht!!! Gimme a break, Catholics need to quit getting sucked in by these moronic side-show issues. The Church is 2000 years old. She has withstood Caesers, Barbarians, Communists, Nazis… …but we would entertain the idea that some tiny little news people woulde cause a Pope to resign?
Get a grip people.
Phhhht!!! Gimme a break, Catholics need to quit getting sucked in by these moronic side-show issues. The Church is 2000 years old. She has withstood Caesers, Barbarians, Communists, Nazis… …but we would entertain the idea that some tiny little news people woulde cause a Pope to resign?
Get a grip people.
R
Rascalking
Guest
Perhaps we should all get a grip and realize that both sides have valid points in this argument.
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IHeartBenedict
Guest
Thinking that a Pope should resign is not valid, not in the least
D
Dempsey1919
Guest
WE MUST ALL PRAY FOR THE HOLY FATHER!
His enemies are attacking him from every angle at the moment. The world hates the Pope because he is doing the work of Christ. Benedict XVI is the best pope we’ve had since Bl. John XXIII. He is a great theologian and he has made excellent decisions so far. He gave us Summorum Pontificum and Anglicanus Coetibus. He is the Pope of Christian Unity. The liberals hate him because he is destroying the so-called Spirit of Vatican II; he is healing the body of Christ and restoring the Church.
MAY HE HAVE A LONG REIGN AND MAY HIS WORK CONTINUE.
His enemies are attacking him from every angle at the moment. The world hates the Pope because he is doing the work of Christ. Benedict XVI is the best pope we’ve had since Bl. John XXIII. He is a great theologian and he has made excellent decisions so far. He gave us Summorum Pontificum and Anglicanus Coetibus. He is the Pope of Christian Unity. The liberals hate him because he is destroying the so-called Spirit of Vatican II; he is healing the body of Christ and restoring the Church.
MAY HE HAVE A LONG REIGN AND MAY HIS WORK CONTINUE.
R
Rascalking
Guest
It may not be. However, I think the people “calling” for the Pope’s resignation mean well. That’s not enough (it seldom is) but they have every right to be heard, as do people with your opinon.
M
momor
Guest
Did you miss the fact that Paul Shanley was convicted of abusing a boy starting when he was 6? That’s pedophilia.
nytimes.com/2005/02/16/national/16shanley.html
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