Should priests be able to marry?

[tabycat]

The eastern churches experienced great difficulties regarding priestly celibacy. Much of it was about the state trying to impose itself on religion. This is how it was actually forbidden for parish priests to be celibate and newly ordained priests were taken, even by force, to the monastery if they were ordained not having been married.

If we change the question to “Should married men be admitted to be ordained bishops?” we avoid having to enter into the difficulty of east and west and we can p(name removed by moderator)oint the real issue. Episcopal celibacy is practiced everywhere and scholars are becoming more and more confident that it always has been so. If a married man became bishop (this happened, although married only once, as Paul attests in 1Tim 3:2), he actually had to leave his wife or at least stop being intimate with her. Is this just a discipline? Or was it intended and instituted by Christ himself (Mt 19:12), having a much greater theological value than simply having more time and energy because of not having to take care of a family? And here we get back to my earlier point that celibacy is a gift and not a burdensome discipline.

In the Eastern Churchs that have a married priesthood, many will only ordain celibate monks as bishops, therefro side stepping the issue of a married bishop.

 

[tabycat]

Priests have never been able to marry, and never will be able to marry after ordination.

Married men, OTOH, have been, are, and can be ordained. Currently, the Latin Rite discipline is to ordain celibate men to the priesthood and celibate or married men to the diaconate (Anglican Ordinariate aside). The discipline in the Eastern Rite Catholic and Orthodox Churches is the ordination of either celibate or married men.

But Orthodox Churches, and maybe the Eastern Rite Catholic, only ordain celibate monks to be a Bishop.

 

[Regina_Love]

NO!

The Catholic Priest is 100% sold out to Jesus Christ! There is great GRACE in practicing celebacy for Christ. ** This grace is for the whole congregation…“the prayers of a righteous man availeth much.” It takes prayer & fasting to drive out demons… ** In the Spiritual world, fasting is necessary for Spiritual sucess!

 

[eamonnroma]

This debate is always framed in such a way that seems to suppose that priests are men who were abducted and woke up in black shirts against their will!

Priests are men who DECIDED not to marry when they accepted the call to priesthood.

And I’m not all that sure that it’s merely discipline that prohibits priests from marrying. It’s discipline that prevents married men from becomng priests, but I’m pretty sure that even in the eastern catholic churches and eastern orthodox churches that a priest cannot marry AFTER he is ordained a priest. IIRC, even deacons can’t marry after they are ordained (don’t quote me on that without double checking).

Why ‘even’ deacons? Deacons share in the same sacrament of Holy Orders and priests and bishops. It is true that the tradition is that an aspirant to ordination has to be married first - but theologically I am not so sure, maybe some could enlighten me.

It is a fact that many people do not become priests because of the rules - and is a shame.

I would have no problem with married priests, my question is how would we finance them?

 

[Simpleton]

Pretty straight forward question.

No

 

[Pax]

Pretty straight forward question.

Jesus gave the apostles and their successors the power to bind and loose. Thus the Church has the authority to establish or relax the discipline of celibacy among the clergy. Jesus praised celibacy in Matthew 19:11-12. The apostle Paul also preferred celibacy to marriage. In 1 Cor 7:27-34 he says, “Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage . . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided.” Finally, Paul concludes his instructions on this subject by saying in verse 38 that “He who marries does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better"

Celibacy is not mandatory and the Church does not forbid marriage. No one is forced to become a priest. Moreover, only the Western right of the Catholic Church requires that priests be celibate. The Eastern right of the Catholic Church allows priests to marry, but selects celibate men to the office of bishop. Celibacy is a charism and those that accept it do so by the grace of God.

Personally, I think allowing marriage among priests will simply complicate their ministry and I am not in favor of it. I believe that celibacy is enormously important and valuable to the priesthood.

God Bless

 

[Regina_Love]

No…here’s how it could play out if they were allowed to marry. It would get ugly, cause even if you did everything perfect, the gossips will slay you anyway!

New, single, handsome Priest is assigned parish. Hundreds of single ladies swamp him with constant attention, flirting, being suggestive, competing with each other. The women turn their claws on each other, and the cat fights begin, they get more desperate and blatant, open sexual invitations are thrown at him frequently…drama drama drama. The poor Priest is sooo distracted that he can barely get through his evening prayers let a lone focus on parish business!

So he does pick a lady, and they go steady…" I think he spent the night at her house!" no I heard her car broke down & he lent it to her" “cindy says he’s the father of her baby, I heard he got Patty pregnant too!” horrors drama drama drama

Each time he breaks up with some one who has intimate knowledge of him, his thoughts, and feelings about parish life, comments he made about certain people in the parish…All this information may be greatly exagerated and used as weapons against him, as the bitter ex-girlfriend spreads vicious gossip…

He gets married…Wait now we have to pay him more than $500 a month! Where is that money coming from. If he has a good Catholic Family with eight kids! We need to provide a 5 bedroom house, medical, Catholic private schooling, a twelve passenger vehicle, food, clothing for 10 people! **cha-ching that’ll be $10,000.00 per month! **

The Bishop moves him to a new parish. The wife & kids need to leave all their friends! They are ticked because they have NO say in where they live. They are uprooted from schools mid year, yanked off of their sports teams… The new parish is not happy. They don’t want this Priest because they can’t afford his family expenses. They default on his pay check the first month… He feels like a failure, and gets depressed.

He doesn’t have any time for his kids sooo they get into trouble, and need drug rehab…Attorneys, and rehabs costs…cha-ching! $25,000.00

His wife is tired of always being neglected, and feeling like a single parent, as he trys to meet the needs of the parish. She files for a divorce! cha-ching! All the gossiping goes wild! "I heard he cheated on her. The kids say he’s an aweful father. He doesn’t know what he’s doing why would I go to him for advice? They can’t divorce they are Catholic! What is the world comming tooo? Oh hey he’s free now ladies! Who’s gonna get him first! CAT FIGHTS… drama drama drama…scandle scandle scandle

 

[manualman]

Why ‘even’ deacons? Deacons share in the same sacrament of Holy Orders and priests and bishops. It is true that the tradition is that an aspirant to ordination has to be married first - but theologically I am not so sure, maybe some could enlighten me.

My use of “even” here refers to the fact that “everybody knows” deacons can be married. But there too, there is a distinction made that most people actually don’t know.

Deacons can’t get married AFTER they are ordained. It’s just that they can be ordained even if they are married. A deacon who is a widower does not have the option of marrying again. I’m not theologian enough to answer your question, but I am pretty sure that the reasons are both practical and theological.

 

[JerryZ]

My use of “even” here refers to the fact that “everybody knows” deacons can be married. But there too, there is a distinction made that most people actually don’t know.

Deacons can’t get married AFTER they are ordained. It’s just that they can be ordained even if they are married. A deacon who is a widower does not have the option of marrying again. I’m not theologian enough to answer your question, but I am pretty sure that the reasons are both practical and theological.

Yes you are correct however there is a provision that allows a widowed deacon to remarry if he has little children.

 

[TimothyH]

Hmmm… Trying to be a husband to 2 brides would be tough, a father to 2 families so to speak… The body of Christ as a bride demands much attention, as would the earthly (yet spiritual bride) as well… Trying to father natural children and spiritual children… wow… considering the divorce rate of Protestant clergy… Considering the wisdom of years from Saints and a Church guided by the Spirit of Christ…

I pray we never go the way of a married clergy. I was once a Protestant minister (for a brief 3 years) and my little boy was GRATEFUL the day I resigned.

He got his dad back…

A Catholic priest is not married to the Church - not in reality nor spiritually.

-Tim-

 

[asia53]

A Catholic priest is not married to the Church - not in reality nor spiritually.

-Tim-

Wow, really? Well, someone better tell the priests.

Last Sunday, after the confirmation reception, our priest sat down with a few of us, the clean up crew. He was asked this very same question by one of my fellow parishioners. His answer: priests are married to the Church.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Wow, really? Well, someone better tell the priests.

Last Sunday, after the confirmation reception, our priest sat down with a few of us, the clean up crew. He was asked this very same question by one of my fellow parishioners. His answer: priests are married to the Church.

Being married to a wife and being “married” to the Church are not the same thing. That is obvious, because if it was there can never be a married priest without being bigamous, and there are married priests.

 

[ARL337]

Possibly but the amount of stress and work being a priest is hard to comprehend, the priest at my parish i know works almost all day and all night attending to the needs of the parish and the community. I do not think there would be any time for marriage because of what there job requires them to do they need to devout that time to their church

I agree with this view. I like it the way it is now but I’m big on tradition.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

I would agree with the Eastern Church’s practice, and say that married men (whose vocation has been discerned by the Church) can be married, but that no ordained priest would be free to marry, including widowers that were priests. There would have to be some further changes in the way married priests were assigned to parishes as well. It would also be with an understanding between the married couple that the Church would come first, just as it did with the Apostles. So it should not be entered into lightly or inadvisedly. The couple would also have to be models of Christian virtue, both the wife and the priestly candidate. Ultimately I think it would be the exception and not the rule. Priestly celibacy should be retained and encouraged as the norm.

 

[CeciliaS]

No…here’s how it could play out if they were allowed to marry. It would get ugly, cause even if you did everything perfect, the gossips will slay you anyway!

New, single, handsome Priest is assigned parish. Hundreds of single ladies swamp him with constant attention, flirting, being suggestive, competing with each other. The women turn their claws on each other, and the cat fights begin, they get more desperate and blatant, open sexual invitations are thrown at him frequently…drama drama drama. The poor Priest is sooo distracted that he can barely get through his evening prayers let a lone focus on parish business!

So he does pick a lady, and they go steady…" I think he spent the night at her house!" no I heard her car broke down & he lent it to her" “cindy says he’s the father of her baby, I heard he got Patty pregnant too!” horrors drama drama drama

Each time he breaks up with some one who has intimate knowledge of him, his thoughts, and feelings about parish life, comments he made about certain people in the parish…All this information may be greatly exagerated and used as weapons against him, as the bitter ex-girlfriend spreads vicious gossip…

He gets married…Wait now we have to pay him more than $500 a month! Where is that money coming from. If he has a good Catholic Family with eight kids! We need to provide a 5 bedroom house, medical, Catholic private schooling, a twelve passenger vehicle, food, clothing for 10 people! **cha-ching that’ll be $10,000.00 per month! **

The Bishop moves him to a new parish. The wife & kids need to leave all their friends! They are ticked because they have NO say in where they live. They are uprooted from schools mid year, yanked off of their sports teams… The new parish is not happy. They don’t want this Priest because they can’t afford his family expenses. They default on his pay check the first month… He feels like a failure, and gets depressed.

He doesn’t have any time for his kids sooo they get into trouble, and need drug rehab…Attorneys, and rehabs costs…cha-ching! $25,000.00

His wife is tired of always being neglected, and feeling like a single parent, as he trys to meet the needs of the parish. She files for a divorce! cha-ching! All the gossiping goes wild! "I heard he cheated on her. The kids say he’s an aweful father. He doesn’t know what he’s doing why would I go to him for advice? They can’t divorce they are Catholic! What is the world comming tooo? Oh hey he’s free now ladies! Who’s gonna get him first! CAT FIGHTS… drama drama drama…scandle scandle scandle

Regina Love, I see you have your feet firmly planted on the ground and in real life, and I thank you for your magnificent post!

I would just add… what about the wife’s career? What if she has to move? Does hubby find a parish in her new city? Does the parish take up a special collection for the moving van? Or does the diocese provide this and other related services?

The idea of being a priest’s wife makes me shudder, and the neglect that such a woman would undoubtably feel goes smack against the respect for her dignity that is a fundemental part of the Church’s teaching.

I am so glad that priests have the discipline of celibacy. It is just another sign that God really, really does know what He is doing!

CeciliaS

 

[ConstantineTG]

Wow, really? Well, someone better tell the priests.

Last Sunday, after the confirmation reception, our priest sat down with a few of us, the clean up crew. He was asked this very same question by one of my fellow parishioners. His answer: priests are married to the Church.

But the Church is the bride of our Lord. Unless you are saying that the Church is bigamous.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I would agree with the Eastern Church’s practice, and say that married men (whose vocation has been discerned by the Church) can be married, but that no ordained priest would be free to marry, including widowers that were priests. There would have to be some further changes in the way married priests were assigned to parishes as well. It would also be with an understanding between the married couple that the Church would come first, just as it did with the Apostles. So it should not be entered into lightly or inadvisedly. The couple would also have to be models of Christian virtue, both the wife and the priestly candidate. Ultimately I think it would be the exception and not the rule. Priestly celibacy should be retained and encouraged as the norm.

What you have outlined has been the practice in the East since the beginning. We’ve had no problems with it. Usually the wife would even come from a priest’s family, or a woman who is interested in the faith and would have gone to the seminary to study (seminaries usually are attached to a college or university where those studying to be priests would take the same classes as those who are just there to study theology).

Also, saying that “Church comes first” is nothing new. If a doctor is called to an emergency, would the doctor say, “sorry, but my family comes first.” There are many professions out there that are more demanding on a man’s time than the priesthood. Its not like this is something new to women out there.

 

[Goya]

But the Church is the bride of our Lord. Unless you are saying that the Church is bigamous.

That’s just small minded. Like protestants saying “…Christ can’t be in the Euccharist, because he’s seatd at the right hand of the Father”.

The priest acts in persona of Christ.

By your logic, a priest who is married, would then be bigamous.

 

[Goya]

I didn’t see it mentioned above, so I figure I’ll just throw it out there:

Jesus Christ wasn’t married.

(That is from whence the tradition originates).

 

[AmbroseSJ]

CeciliaS:

The idea of being a priest’s wife makes me shudder, and the neglect that such a woman would undoubtably feel goes smack against the respect for her dignity that is a fundemental part of the Church’s teaching.

That is why the decision would hinge largely on the wife’s cooperation. So feeling as you do, the husband should not be ordained.

If a man knows his wife to feel the way you do, (hypothetically speaking) then he would rule out a priestly vocation altogether. However there are still ways he could serve his Church in ways that would be consonant with respecting your dignity. However, you should also realize that not all women would feel the same as you.