Should science be secular?

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kaninchen

Now, one would expect that those who are arguing that science should change, in some way, should be able to describe ‘in what way’ and ‘to what end’.

Not sure about your point here. Isaac Newton did not use his Christianity to change science. Rather, he found in his science a reflection of his Christian values and his belief in God.

I don’t know of anyone in this thread who wants to impose a Christian methodology on activities in the scientific laboratory … except to the extent that laboratory work does not violate Christian values, such as the Nazis were capable of when they experimented horribly on dying prisoners.

There is a book titled Glimpses of the Devil, by psychiatrist Scott Peck (author of The Road Less Traveled). Psychiatry is a science. Peck has discovered patients of his own whom he believed to be possessed by demons, and has used both his skills as a psychiatrist and his beliefs as a Christian to combat these demons, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. This is a science, however, where the vast majority of practitioners are atheist or agnostic, and therefore ill equipped to detect whether their patients are suffering from a psychosis or possession. This comes as close an answer as I can give to the possible areas of collaboration between religion and science in a world where science is well known to be extremely hostile to religion.

The other area, of course, would be ID. But again, because there are so many victims of scientism (invariably atheists and agnostics) in the field of biology, that alone would account for why there is so much of a furor against the notion that the first living cell sure looks like it was designed.
 
kaninchen

Now, one would expect that those who are arguing that science should change, in some way, should be able to describe ‘in what way’ and ‘to what end’.

Not sure about your point here. Isaac Newton did not use his Christianity to change science. Rather, he found in his science a reflection of his Christian values and his belief in God.

I don’t know of anyone in this thread who wants to impose a Christian methodology on activities in the scientific laboratory … except to the extent that laboratory work does not violate Christian values, such as the Nazis were capable of when they experimented horribly on dying prisoners.

There is a book titled Glimpses of the Devil, by psychiatrist Scott Peck (author of The Road Less Traveled). Psychiatry is a science. Peck has discovered patients of his own whom he believed to be possessed by demons, and has used both his skills as a psychiatrist and his beliefs as a Christian to combat these demons, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. This is a science, however, where the vast majority of practitioners are atheist or agnostic, and therefore ill equipped to detect whether their patients are suffering from a psychosis or possession. This comes as close an answer as I can give to the possible areas of collaboration between religion and science in a world where science is well known to be extremely hostile to religion.

The other area, of course, would be ID. But again, because there are so many victims of scientism (invariably atheists and agnostics) in the field of biology, that alone would account for why there is so much of a furor against the notion that the first living cell sure looks like it was designed.
I remember commenting here once about how those of us who don’t live in the US should cheer for the victory of creationism etc in the US - competitive advantages are always welcome, as would be the exodus of US research scientists. The world is changing and science and scientific communities all over it are not going to care much about the feelings of American Christian voters.

As to whether there should be a things like greater exposure to ‘ethical issues’ in the education of science students, now that’s a different matter altogether.
 
Kaninchen

The world is changing and science and scientific communities all over it are not going to care much about the feelings of American Christian voters.

Not caring much about Christians was Nero’s position as he was sending Christians into the arena. Nero was a pervert (he killed his own mother), and no one mourned his death.

We know that the devil has a strangle hold on the world right now. Christianity has been through this before and come out the other side proving itself a survivor. 👍
 
Kaninchen

The world is changing and science and scientific communities all over it are not going to care much about the feelings of American Christian voters.

Not caring much about Christians was Nero’s position as he was sending Christians into the arena. Nero was a pervert, and no one mourned his death.

We know that the devil has a strangle hold on the world right now. Christianity has been through this before and come out the other side proving itself a survivor. 👍
And there’s a terrible lack of knowledge about Italian railway regulations.
 
*And there’s a terrible lack of knowledge about Italian railway regulations. *

Hee-hee! :rotfl:
 
And there’s a terrible lack of knowledge about Italian railway regulations.
Gee, y’know, you’re right, THAT’S what was lacking in my life! Still though, I have a good relationship with Him. Bet you can’t find Him on the stazioni timetable!

Btw, you fancy having a go at actually answering my earlier post?

Assuming your linguistic skills stretch beyond the anorak world of trains…
 
Gee, y’know, you’re right, THAT’S what was lacking in my life! Still though, I have a good relationship with Him. Bet you can’t find Him on the stazioni timetable!
Stazione, stazioni is plural.
Btw, you fancy having a go at actually answering my earlier post?
Assuming your linguistic skills stretch beyond the anorak world of trains…
I do have to say that, in a decade and a half of relgious message boards, your approach to apologetics has got to be one of the least effective I’ve come across.
 
Stazione, stazioni is plural.

I do have to say that, in a decade and a half of relgious message boards, your approach to apologetics has got to be one of the least effective I’ve come across.
Still awaiting an answer…any ideas?
C’mon, put the timetable down for a mo…
 
Answer this very topically specific quote, Mr. Schoolmarm:
‘Ex praeterito - praesens prudenter agit - ni futura actione deturpet.’
Would anyone be a dear and translate that for me as I don’t speak Albanian. Oh no, thanks, got it. Apparently it’s attributed to Titian the painter guy and means “from the past come the wise actions in the present of a person who wishes to make no mistakes in future”.
Still awaiting an answer…any ideas?
C’mon, put the timetable down for a mo…
Was that the question? I suffer from TCS (Thread Confusion Syndrome :cool:).
 
This is a science, however, where the vast majority of practitioners are atheist or agnostic, and therefore ill equipped to detect whether their patients are suffering from a psychosis or possession. This comes as close an answer as I can give to the possible areas of collaboration between religion and science in a world where science is well known to be extremely hostile to religion.
How would they go about deciding between psychosis and possession? What diagnostic procedure could be used?
 
*How would they go about deciding between psychosis and possession? What diagnostic procedure could be used? *

That would be difficult to go into detail on here. But if you are really interested, the chapter titled “What Is Possession?” at the end of the book might answer your question.

Peck believes most psychiatrists are beyond persuading in this matter, as they would have nothing to do with God or the Devil, or any religious exercise such as an exorcism. It was attending his first exorcism that persuaded him of the existence of the devil. Later, he conducted two exorcisms of his own, documented in Glimpses of the Devil. He was able to use his skills as a psychiatrist to manipulate the demons away from one of his patients. His exorcism and treatment of the other patient failed.

Malachi Martin’s Hostage to the Devil is another treatment of five cases of demonic possession. Martin’s work strongly influenced Peck’s approach.
 
*How would they go about deciding between psychosis and possession? What diagnostic procedure could be used? *

That would be difficult to go into detail on here. But if you are really interested, the chapter titled “What Is Possession?” at the end of the book might answer your question.

Peck believes most psychiatrists are beyond persuading in this matter, as they would have nothing to do with God or the Devil, or any religious exercise such as an exorcism. It was attending his first exorcism that persuaded him of the existence of the devil. Later, he conducted two exorcisms of his own, documented in Glimpses of the Devil. He was able to use his skills as a psychiatrist to manipulate the demons away from one of his patients. His exorcism and treatment of the other patient failed.

Malachi Martin’s Hostage to the Devil is another treatment of five cases of demonic possession. Martin’s work strongly influenced Peck’s approach.
Have spirits/demons been empirically documented? Have they been measured or chemically analyzed?
 
Would anyone be a dear and translate that for me as I don’t speak Albanian. Oh no, thanks, got it. Apparently it’s attributed to Titian the painter guy and means “from the past come the wise actions in the present of a person who wishes to make no mistakes in future”.

Was that the question? I suffer from TCS (Thread Confusion Syndrome :cool:).
It’s the bold inocente! Fair play! Your translation is somewhat clumsy but, be that as it may, I was looking for your interpretation of said words as they directly apply to the topic in hand.
Y’see, that’s the beauty of this God-given world of ours. Not only has He endowed us with free will, He has also given each and every one of us an imagination. And I have learned to employ mine to see the interconnectedness of His beauty and power. It is not, by any means, a unique attribute. Countless more abler men than I use it to further His Word.

So, the above translation is a direct testament to the approach we must adopt in all spheres of human activity not excluding the wonderful realm of science.

I could go on for far longer but I don’t want to test the limits of your TCS!
God Bless,
Colmcille1.🙂
 
I remember commenting here once about how those of us who don’t live in the US should cheer for the victory of creationism etc in the US - competitive advantages are always welcome, as would be the exodus of US research scientists. The world is changing and science and scientific communities all over it are not going to care much about the feelings of American Christian voters.

As to whether there should be a things like greater exposure to ‘ethical issues’ in the education of science students, now that’s a different matter altogether.
I have never read a single rational explanation of the dread results of a country accepting creationism. Please give details. What precisely will happen?

God bless,
Ed
 
I have never read a single rational explanation of the dread results of a country accepting creationism. Please give details. What precisely will happen?

God bless,
Ed
Young peoples’ minds will be fed clear falsehoods, knowingly. I consider THAT a sin in institutions of learning. What you teach in your home is also lamentable to me, but a lesser sin since it is not a conspiracy to teach falsehood. It is only on your shoulders.
 
I have never read a single rational explanation of the dread results of a country accepting creationism. Please give details. What precisely will happen?

God bless,
Ed
Oh, I’m all for you all embracing creationism - while American universities are busy researching which dinosaurs danced with Adam and Eve, talent and investment will move elsewhere.
 
. Apparently it’s attributed to Titian the painter guy.
’Titian, the painter guy’!!!

As in Jimmy the decorator who lives a couple of blocks from you and gets the odd job here and there?!?!
Please open your mind to the greatness of western art. Gombrich’s seminal work ‘The story of Art’ is a good starting point. Lots of fascinating religious art history in there too!
 
Oh, I’m all for you all embracing creationism - while American universities are busy researching which dinosaurs danced with Adam and Eve, talent and investment will move elsewhere.
So nothing will happen, just as I thought.

God bless,
Ed
 
So nothing will happen, just as I thought.

God bless,
Ed
Oh, don’t say that, think of all the fun you’ll have posting on CAF about which specific dinosaurs researchers think were dancing with Adam and Eve.
 
Young peoples’ minds will be fed clear falsehoods, knowingly. I consider THAT a sin in institutions of learning. What you teach in your home is also lamentable to me, but a lesser sin since it is not a conspiracy to teach falsehood. It is only on your shoulders.
Yes, people have been going to Christian schools and were taught that God created the world and man in 6 literal days for hundreds of years. Those same people went on to be scientists and engineers. Once again, since no one can provide any specific negative effects, it seems there aren’t any.

I am not an advocate for forcing this on ‘institutions of learning.’

God bless,
Ed
 
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