Should someone from another faith who wants to become a Traditionalist have to go through RCIA?

[Blessed_is_He]

My friend is interested in becoming Catholic. Lately she has been going to the Latin Mass. If she wants to be traditional Catholic does she still have to go through RICA? Thanks

 

[WD615]

It depends on the parish. Some priests are really gung-ho about RCIA. Especially this time of year when RCIA typically starts up, she might be channeled into RCIA.

With that said, I know I didn’t have to go through RCIA when I was received into the Church. I would have been waiting months to go through RCIA and it would have been unnecessary as I was already knowledgeable of what I was doing. Instead, I met with my priest multiple times in preparation for reception into the Church. He has been considering an alternate procedure for bringing in baptized Christians who aren’t Catholics.

If she can find such a priest, then that’s what she could do. However, many priests would want a convert to go through RCIA and be received at the Easter Vigil.

 

[WD615]

Just to be clear, I would also note that “traditional Catholicism” is not a subset of Catholicism. Since the traditional Latin Mass is the same rite, it wouldn’t even be like being a “Byzantine Catholic” or some such thing.

 

[Catholic1954]

My friend is interested in becoming Catholic. Lately she has been going to the Latin Mass. If she wants to be traditional Catholic does she still have to go through RICA? Thanks

Have her call the parish office and see if they offer RCIA or can she convert some other way. RCIA is the usual way for adults to come into the Church, but exceptions can be made.

 

[jmcrae]

My friend is interested in becoming Catholic. Lately she has been going to the Latin Mass. If she wants to be traditional Catholic does she still have to go through RCIA? Thanks

The process is always RCIA, but adaptations to the process can be made for different circumstances. She should ask the priest who says the Latin Mass if he has a process she can do, to be received into the Church within the Latin Mass community.

 

[alwayslooking]

I believe that my Latin Mass oratory uses private instruction instead of RCIA. If your friend is going to a parish that exclusively celebrates the EF they may defer to private instruction instead of RCIA.

 

[felsguy]

I get the impression that is some correlation between preferring the Extraordinary Form and opposing RCIA. Is this accurate? If so, why is that?

 

[Aramis]

I get the impression that is some correlation between preferring the Extraordinary Form and opposing RCIA. Is this accurate? If so, why is that?

Generally (great big broad sweeping strokes):

• the most visible liturgical abuses are in the OF. They appear to be due to bad catechesis.
• The most strongly catechized Roman Rite clade is the fans of the EF.
• RCIA is specifically about preparing non-Catholics for participation in the OF.
• Many RCIA programs have notable issues with improper catechesis.

Fallacious conclusion therefrom: Ergo, the RCIA program is probably not doing a good job of catechesis…

Note that liturgical abuses were rife under the Trent rite in the 1920’s to 1960’s, and probably before, but that they were often less obvious.

The poor catechesis of Roman Catholics in the US is legendary, and well predates Vatican II. Even many priests have some interesting gaps in their catechetical background.

Prior to the RCIA program, catechesis of converts varied extremely widely. The lower bar has moved up for converts… but it does nothing to stop the issue of the constant problems of catechesis of cradle Catholics… which, really, is part of the problem.

 

[Joannm]

RCIA, the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults is not a program. They are rites of the Church. If you look at the RCIA book, it does not spell out how a convert or someone coming from another Christian faith is catechized. The instructions state that suitable catechesis and formation is necessary but does not spell out how that should be handled. What is does say is that most of the rites are to be done. There should be a dismissal after the homily. There should be a Rite of Acceptance, scrutinies, and the person should go to the Rite of Election or at least have the Book of the Elect available for them to sign. These are rites of the Church and hold much significance not only for the catechumen but for the entire assembly as well.

RCIA sessions (and I don’t like to use the word classes) are more about forming the person to be a Christian. It is not about jamming as much knowledge into their heads in as little time as possible. The Gospels and the Creed are the “texts” so to speak. We want people to have a relationship with Christ not just head knowledge.

If a priest privately can adequately form a person in the faith, and has the time to devote to this task, then it is OK to do so. I don’t know many priests who can devote over an hour or more a week on each person who wishes to convert. There are many priests who are very involved in RCIA and do come to sessions each week, but it is usually a group they are working with and not a one on one.

They also have the help of a team. The team is important because it is in the sharing of stories or their relationship with Christ that an inquirer or catechumen comes to know Christ. Evangelization is about forming a relationship not gaining as much knowledge as possible.

Conversions in the early Church came not by study but through the experience of coming to know Christ through the WITNESS of others. That is why conversions soared during the times of persecution. In fact, most of the great catechetical homilies that we read from the early Church Fathers were made during the period of Mystagogy following baptism. The long period of formation (three years or more before baptism) was not so that the catechumen would learn doctrine but would know JESUS. That is our problem with catechesis in general today. We focus on getting children and adults to know concepts, doctrines, devotions, ext., but not on knowing Jesus. Yes, we want both, but I think we focus too much on knowledge of things and less on the relationship with Christ, as if knowledge of Catholicism automatically gives one a relationship with Christ. I know plenty of Catholics who know a lot about Catholicism, Scripture, doctrines, ext. but don’t bother to know Jesus and don’t practice their faith or practice it in a self-serving way.

The process of converting into the faith is varied, but the goal should be the same. Forming disciples of Christ. It is not an easy task.

 

[Usige]

My friend is interested in becoming Catholic. Lately she has been going to the Latin Mass. If she wants to be traditional Catholic does she still have to go through RICA? Thanks

You don’t say if she is already baptized or not, but the TLM parish we occasionally attend don’t have an RCIA “program”. Candidates do private instruction with Father (either the pastor or parochial vicar). How long the instruction lasts is dependent on the person. He never uses the scholastic year approach that is prevalent in the vast majority of parishes. He takes the duty to instruct the faithful seriously and doesn’t entrust instruction to members of the laity.

Long and short, is to have her ask at the parish where she goes to the TLM how they handle adults coming into the church.

 

[Usige]

RCIA sessions (and I don’t like to use the word classes) are more about forming the person to be a Christian. It is not about jamming as much knowledge into their heads in as little time as possible. The Gospels and the Creed are the “texts” so to speak. We want people to have a relationship with Christ not just head knowledge.
…
The process of converting into the faith is varied, but the goal should be the same. Forming disciples of Christ. It is not an easy task.

I’d agree with you there. But…

There should be a dismissal after the homily. There should be a Rite of Acceptance, scrutinies, and the person should go to the Rite of Election or at least have the Book of the Elect available for them to sign. These are rites of the Church and hold much significance not only for the catechumen but for the entire assembly as well.

This really applies to the unbaptized. Candidates for full communion should not be dismissed and the scrutinies and rite of election are also only for the unbaptized. But despite the fact that the majority of people that enter the Church are candidates not catechumen most RCIA programs are still setup for the catechumenate and then try to shoehorn the candidates in to the scholastic year approach and completely disregard the instruction that “[t]hose baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition … should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate” (National Statues for the Catechumenate 31)

 

[Usige]

I get the impression that is some correlation between preferring the Extraordinary Form and opposing RCIA. Is this accurate? If so, why is that?

That’s probably accurate. Why? Generally in EF parishes people are instructed by the priest; in OF parishes by members of the laity.

More importantly I think that the priests in the EF parishes aren’t afraid to offend people so they present the Church’s teachings without hemming and hawing or beating around the bush. In the RCIA programs I have been in as either a participant, sponsor, or part time facilitator I generally found that the OF parishes danced around many subjects like marriage (divorce, annulments, gay “marriage”), sexual morality (contraception, premarital sex), etc. Generally those subject (if they were covered) would go something like “these are the teachings of the Church [orthodoxy varied], but trust your own judgment.”

In general there is a feeling that RCIA can present a watered down version of the faith to keep from offending people. Not every place is like that, but enough that many with a more traditional bent see it that way.

One of the things pointed out is the difference in the profession of faith in the current rites as opposed to the older form.

New form:

I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.

Old form:

(first part - basically the creed removed for brevity)

                 I firmly admit and embrace the apostolic and ecclesiastical traditions and all the other constitutions and ordinances of the Church.

I admit the Sacred Scriptures in the sense which has been held and is still held by holy Mother Church, whose duty it is to judge the true sense and interpretation of Sacred Scripture, and I shall never accept or interpret them in a sense contrary to the unanimous consent of the fathers.

I profess that the sacraments of the New Law are truly and precisely seven in number, instituted for the salvation of mankind, though all are not necessary for each individual: baptism, confirmation, holy Eucharist, penance, anointing of the sick, holy orders, and matrimony. I profess that all confer grace, and that baptism, confirmation, and holy orders cannot be repeated without sacrilege. I also accept and admit the ritual of the Catholic Church in the solemn administration of all the aforementioned sacraments.

I accept and hold in each and every part all that has been defined and declared by the Sacred Council of Trent concerning original sin and justification. I profess that in the Mass there is offered to God a true, real, and propitiatory sacrifice for the living and the dead; that in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ is really, truly, and substantially present, and that there takes place in the Mass what the Church calls transubstantiation, which is the change of all the substance of bread into the body of Christ and of all substance of wine into His blood. I confess also that in receiving under either of these species one receives Jesus Christ whole and entire.

I firmly hold that Purgatory exists and that the souls detained there can be helped by the prayers of the faithful.

Likewise I hold that the saints, who reign with Jesus Christ, should be venerated and invoked, that they offer prayers to God for us, and that their relics are to be venerated.

I firmly profess that the images of Jesus Christ and of the Mother of God, ever a Virgin, as well as of all the saints should be given due honor and veneration. I also affirm that Jesus Christ left to the Church the faculty to grant indulgences, and that their use is most salutary to the Christian people. I recognize the holy, Roman, Catholic, and apostolic Church as the mother and teacher of all the churches, and I promise and swear true obedience to the Roman Pontiff, successor of St. Peter, the prince of the apostles and vicar of Jesus Christ.

Moreover, without hesitation I accept and profess all that has been handed down, defined, and declared by the sacred canons and by the general councils, especially by the Sacred Council of Trent and by the Vatican General Council, and in special manner all that concerns the primacy and infallibility of the Roman Pontiff. At the same time I condemn and reprove all that the Church has condemned and reproved. This same Catholic faith, outside of which none can be saved, I now freely profess and I truly adhere to it. With the help of God, I promise and swear to maintain and profess this faith entirely, inviolately, and with firm constancy until the last breath of life. And I shall strive, as far as possible, that this same faith shall be held, taught, and publicly professed by all who depend on me and over whom I shall have charge.

So help me God and these holy Gospels.

Yes the new form might incorporate all that the old profession did in a general way, but how many people that go through RCIA understand that “I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by Go” means everything in the older form? The new form leaves a lot more open to interpretation one might say.

 

[Brendan_64]

My friend is interested in becoming Catholic. Lately she has been going to the Latin Mass. If she wants to be traditional Catholic does she still have to go through RICA? Thanks

As has been said before, there is no distinction between traditional Roman Catholic and another sort of Roman Catholic, all are simply Roman Catholics. Two forms (there are actually more than that) of the Roman Rite of the Mass exist (OF and EF) some Catholics prefer one form, some prefer the other, and some like both, there is no distinction in our Church between Roman Catholics and Roman Catholics.

 

[Cider]

At the parish’s I’ve attended that are dedicated to the EF they do private instruction with a priest, even for those that are unbaptized. Just call the parish office or talk to the priest about the method employed where you attend mass.

 

[FAB]

My friend is interested in becoming Catholic. Lately she has been going to the Latin Mass. If she wants to be traditional Catholic does she still have to go through RICA? Thanks

Just to be clear, there is no sub category in the Church called “Traditional Catholic” . Going to the Latin Rite mass is personal preference, RCIA is still a must.

Deacon Frank

 

[Joannm]

I’d agree with you there. But…

This really applies to the unbaptized. Candidates for full communion should not be dismissed and the scrutinies and rite of election are also only for the unbaptized. But despite the fact that the majority of people that enter the Church are candidates not catechumen most RCIA programs are still setup for the catechumenate and then try to shoehorn the candidates in to the scholastic year approach and completely disregard the instruction that “[t]hose baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition … should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate” (National Statues for the Catechumenate 31)

I was referring to the unbaptized. My parish has more catechumens than candidates, and we do work with the candidates differently and often do not wait for Easter to bring them in.

 

[Cat]

I don’t get it. RCIA is an ancient Catholic tradition. So wouldn’t “traditional” Catholics embrace this and run with it?

And just because it’s badly-done in one parish doesn’t mean that it has to be badly-done. Why couldn’t the Latin Mass parish simply do a great job of RCIA?

I can see why asking a priest to catechize individuals privately would be a tremendous drain on resources, unless the Latin Mass parish is only receiving one or two people a year into their parish. That really doesn’t sound like a good thing. Besides, many people claim that the Latin Mass is attracting crowds of people, especially new converts. Does Father really have the time and energy to catechize hundreds of people individually?

 

[crazzeto]

It will be up to the priest at the parish, the norm set by Vatican II should be RCIA. I know some may opt for private instruction. Your friend should talk to the pastor where she has been attending, it will be his call.

 

[larsont7]

Like many others have said, it would be up to the priest to decide which instruction to use. When I converted, it was in a parish that shared the EF/OF, and I was given personal instruction for about 4-5 months with a priest. I’m guessing if there were several people that were going to be brought in, a group setting would have been better, but I am thankful I was able to get that personal instruction.

And yes, there can be a danger associated with some RCIA programs, though I’m sure many are orthodox. I had one employee who worked for me that told me she had converted to Catholicism through her RCIA program, but her catechesis was severely lacking, and in fact, she had to be re-entered into the Church due to some glaring mistakes (they didn’t verify her Protestant baptism, which turned out to be invalid; they didn’t teach her about the precepts of the Church, especially regarding the necessity of at least one Confession per year of all mortal sins - in fact, she had never even gone to Confession).

 

[Usige]

I was referring to the unbaptized. My parish has more catechumens than candidates, and we do work with the candidates differently and often do not wait for Easter to bring them in.

Glad to hear at least one place actually following the bishops’ directives.The area I live in generally sees 90%+ being candidates. In the 6 years I have been involved (trying to change the system) we have had 2 years with zero catechumen. Both those years still used the combined rites.