Should someone from another faith who wants to become a Traditionalist have to go through RCIA?

[Usige]

I don’t get it. RCIA is an ancient Catholic tradition. So wouldn’t “traditional” Catholics embrace this and run with it?

And just because it’s badly-done in one parish doesn’t mean that it has to be badly-done. Why couldn’t the Latin Mass parish simply do a great job of RCIA?

I can see why asking a priest to catechize individuals privately would be a tremendous drain on resources, unless the Latin Mass parish is only receiving one or two people a year into their parish. That really doesn’t sound like a good thing. Besides, many people claim that the Latin Mass is attracting crowds of people, especially new converts. Does Father really have the time and energy to catechize hundreds of people individually?

We need to be clear about the difference between the liturgical rites and RCIA “programs.”

The rites can be a little difficult to incorporate in to the the Tridentine Mass for a couple reasons. First is that the new rites as currently written are designed with an eye to “greater participation of the laity”. This would be completely foreign to the Tridentine Mass. Because of that the rites would have to be specifically rewritten to fit with the Tridentine Mass. That in of itself presents a number of problems since the current regulations only allow the use of the Missal as it existed in 1962. In essence it was frozen in time. Allowing a “thaw” to introduce new rites would need to be done carefully and preferably the changes would be done by those with knowledge and deep love of the Tridentine Mass. If their were changes it would likely be like the current form of the reception of converts; something done as a separate rite done outside of Mass.

As for RCIA “programs” those likely would not happen in a traditional parish. At the FSSP parish we occasionally attend there were something like 14 kids confirmed and 30 some kids that received first communion last year. Father conducted all those classes (confirmation classes are split between males and females too if I remember). He occasionally has adult helpers, but he is the principle catechist.

The individual adult instruction might be done in small group setting too. It depends on where each candidate is in their understanding of the faith and if there is any overlap that Father can address to a small group. In my area the majority of people coming into the Church are already baptized in another community. For them it’s generally a handful of classes. Father meets with the convert and asks about their understanding of the basic tenets of the faith. He then instructs them where there is any deficiency. He doesn’t go over who God is, what prayer is, etc. unless the specific candidate needs it. There is not a set number of classes though I seem to remember Father mentioning that it averaged out to maybe six to eight 90 minute meetings.

For the two priest I know at the FSSP parish they see teaching the faith as one of their principle duties. As far as I can tell they don’t seem to be stuck in the endless meeting that most parish priest are. That gives them the time to focus on teaching and offering the sacraments. Everything else seems to be secondary to shepherding their flocks.

 

[Rich_C]

I don’t get it. RCIA is an ancient Catholic tradition. So wouldn’t “traditional” Catholics embrace this and run with it?

I don’t think there’s anything particularly ancient about RCIA as we know it today.

I agree with you that Latin Mass parishes could offer it though.

I think the Latin Mass usually catches hold of recent converts more than potential converts.

 

[Usige]

I think the Latin Mass usually catches hold of recent converts more than potential converts.

That’s probably true. Most converts in the TLM that I know were unsastified with the liturgy after they were received or were looking for more conservative teachings from the pulpit.

 

[clem456]

In our RCIA process the priest is the principal catechist. But he will not present all the talks. Deacons will help, or pastoral associates. Both catechumens and candidates attend weekly Sunday sessions from September through Easter. The rites vary for catechumens and candidates, but both will be dismissed from mass to “break open the word” with RCIA team members. It’s quite a lot of formation, and no one makes all the sessions or can possible read all the material. It’s a big commitment, and it should be. In fact, I would like to see the Church require current Catholics to undergo this process. The RCIA team members and sponsors learn right along with the candidates and catechumens and any Catholic can benefit from this process.
There is a layperson who coordinates the meetings, the food, who speaks when, etc etc…It is quite a large commitment for her. We have a very active parish, two priests are responsible for the parish, a k-12 school, many weddings and funerals, visiting the sick, plus there are over 50 (no that’s not a typo) ministry and outreach groups. The priest will choose the catechetical material, but cannot possibly do all the catechesis. Besides the usccb describes RCIA as not primarily a program of doctrine but primarily a process of witness and Christian formation, of which doctrine is a huge part.
We have a very orthodox presentation, too orthodox for some. But that’s the way it is. The younger priests here present the faith in a straightforward, orthodox way, and do not dodge the difficult issues.

 

[Rich_C]

In our RCIA process the priest is the principal catechist. But he will not present all the talks. Deacons will help, or pastoral associates. Both catechumens and candidates attend weekly Sunday sessions from September through Easter. The rites vary for catechumens and candidates, but both will be dismissed from mass to “break open the word” with RCIA team members. It’s quite a lot of formation, and no one makes all the sessions or can possible read all the material. It’s a big commitment, and it should be. In fact, I would like to see the Church require current Catholics to undergo this process. The RCIA team members and sponsors learn right along with the candidates and catechumens and any Catholic can benefit from this process.
There is a layperson who coordinates the meetings, the food, who speaks when, etc etc…It is quite a large commitment for her. We have a very active parish, two priests are responsible for the parish, a k-12 school, many weddings and funerals, visiting the sick, plus there are over 50 (no that’s not a typo) ministry and outreach groups. The priest will choose the catechetical material, but cannot possibly do all the catechesis. Besides the usccb describes RCIA as not primarily a program of doctrine but primarily a process of witness and Christian formation, of which doctrine is a huge part.
We have a very orthodox presentation, too orthodox for some. But that’s the way it is. The younger priests here present the faith in a straightforward, orthodox way, and do not dodge the difficult issues.

Sounds like a model program. Someday I think it will be this way everywhere. As it becomes harder to be a Catholic in American society, those who wish to water down the Faith (and have done so much damage to our RCIA programs in general) will leave, I suspect.

 

[crazzeto]

Like many others have said, it would be up to the priest to decide which instruction to use. When I converted, it was in a parish that shared the EF/OF, and I was given personal instruction for about 4-5 months with a priest. I’m guessing if there were several people that were going to be brought in, a group setting would have been better, but I am thankful I was able to get that personal instruction.

And yes, there can be a danger associated with some RCIA programs, though I’m sure many are orthodox. I had one employee who worked for me that told me she had converted to Catholicism through her RCIA program, but her catechesis was severely lacking, and in fact, she had to be re-entered into the Church due to some glaring mistakes (they didn’t verify her Protestant baptism, which turned out to be invalid; they didn’t teach her about the precepts of the Church, especially regarding the necessity of at least one Confession per year of all mortal sins - in fact, she had never even gone to Confession).

Thankfully the program that brought in my wife is much better than that, and they generally seemed to touch on very good base of doctrine. I can’t really comment on what all was covered because I was a sponsor (not of her, someone else).

 

[clem456]

Sounds like a model program. Someday I think it will be this way everywhere. As it becomes harder to be a Catholic in American society, those who wish to water down the Faith (and have done so much damage to our RCIA programs in general) will leave, I suspect.

Interestingly enough, the “educators” in our parish, who are school teachers, admins etc, who have been through certain ministry extension programs and have degrees, are presenting the faith in a way that is offensive to the Catholic sensibilities of many in the parish. This includes women’s issues presented outside the thinking of the Church, watering down of moral and doctrinal issues including the Real Presence. (Not exaggerating). Interestingly, these folks are all female and between the ages of say 50-65. (I am ducking for cover as I speak).

The parish also has a strong core of committed laity who have taken the initiative to partner with the priests and present a solid and authentic RCIA process. The RCIA leader is a young woman who is a powerhouse of energy and commitment, and some of the converts who have gone through the process have come back to give witness talks and sponsor new folks.

The parish is hard to brand as traditional or whatever.
The parish is very active and stable, but, some folks feel a lot of pressure because many of the Catholics who had not been going to Mass anyway, are now attending a big “coffee church” in town. The “educators” here think the proper response to this is drum-kits and guitars at Mass. The instruments themselves are not necessarily the problem, the problem is, this does not express the authentic Catholic culture of the parish. It is not who we are. Might be fine in Memphis or something, but here, it is people trying to be people they are not, rather than simply being authentically Catholic.
So we have the same divisions as any other parish, but there is a surge in younger people who love the traditions and faith of the Church, along with some of the older folks. Things are ever-changing among the laity.

 

[achmafooma]

In our RCIA process the priest is the principal catechist. But he will not present all the talks. Deacons will help, or pastoral associates. Both catechumens and candidates attend weekly Sunday sessions from September through Easter. The rites vary for catechumens and candidates, but both will be dismissed from mass to “break open the word” with RCIA team members. It’s quite a lot of formation, and no one makes all the sessions or can possible read all the material. It’s a big commitment, and it should be. In fact, I would like to see the Church require current Catholics to undergo this process. The RCIA team members and sponsors learn right along with the candidates and catechumens and any Catholic can benefit from this process.
There is a layperson who coordinates the meetings, the food, who speaks when, etc etc…It is quite a large commitment for her. We have a very active parish, two priests are responsible for the parish, a k-12 school, many weddings and funerals, visiting the sick, plus there are over 50 (no that’s not a typo) ministry and outreach groups. The priest will choose the catechetical material, but cannot possibly do all the catechesis. Besides the usccb describes RCIA as not primarily a program of doctrine but primarily a process of witness and Christian formation, of which doctrine is a huge part.
We have a very orthodox presentation, too orthodox for some. But that’s the way it is. The younger priests here present the faith in a straightforward, orthodox way, and do not dodge the difficult issues.

This is almost exactly how ours operates. I went through RCIA myself in 2009, and now I’m the volunteer coordinator for the parish. The classes are roughly 40/60 between being taught by our clergy (two priests and a deacon) vs. volunteer catechists, but each volunteer has been vetted and approved by our pastor. They are all faithful, obedient Catholics who teach what the Church teaches. And if they went ‘off the rails’ I would bring it to our pastor’s attention and we would straighten it out right away, although that hasn’t been necessary as long as I’ve been volunteering!

We try very hard to teach the authentic faith and doctrines of the Church as completely and accurately as possible, given the constraints of time and practicality. That does mean that, occasionally, somebody will get upset. We had somebody get pretty mad last year when, in the class before the election, we read from the Bishops’ statement on conscience and voting…which was very strong about how we should weigh abortion policy and religious liberty as we consider our votes. She told me afterwards that she was a Democrat and was very offended that we were endorsing the Republican candidates…which, of course, isn’t at all what we did or said. We were very careful to NOT endorse anybody or even talk about parties or individual candidates. Oh well.

I hear all these RCIA horror stories online, but the structure of the rites itself is really good…if the people running it are teaching the authentic Catholic faith, which is what they are supposed to be doing. For that to happen, you need to have a pastor and/or RCIA coordinator who care about being faithful to the teachings of the Church. We are blessed to have had that in my parish, and I’m trying my best to follow in those footsteps as I lead the program now.

A bit off-topic but my understanding is that the RCIA process is or should be the ‘normative’ process everywhere, although more ‘traditional’ parishes might tend toward one-on-one with a priest, which isn’t ‘wrong’ but is much harder to do in a large parish with a lot of prospective catechumens and/or candidates. We do a one-on-one or individualized process in our parish that we use on a case-by-case basis, especially for candidates who already have some knowledge of the faith and don’t need the ‘full’ program, or people who have some good reason for not doing the RCIA classes (e.g., somebody who can’t go due to work or family commitments, etc.).

God bless!

 

[commenter]

…
RCIA sessions (and I don’t like to use the word classes) are more about forming the person to be a Christian. It is not about jamming as much knowledge into their heads in as little time as possible. The Gospels and the Creed are the “texts” so to speak. We want people to have a relationship with Christ not just head knowledge…
.

I don’t know this poster, but this snippet reflects the same approach to RCIA in many parishes near me, in how they view doctrine. The priority is “process”, wherein nothing is presented as absolutely right or wrong, true or false, but everything is relative. They talk about relationship to Christ, but the de-emphasis on doctrine means each person defines their own version of Christ, which could be different for each person, and often different from the Church; for instance, “My Jesus would allow divorcees who love each other to marry” or “My Jesus wouldn’t restrict the priesthood to males” or “My Jesus would never create Hell” or whatever. The “process” suggests that the Church, too, is on a journey, so while Humanae Vitae may have been right for Pope Paul’s time and place, we now know it may not apply to 2013, at this point in our pilgrimage.

The “process” tendency is towards an extreme subjectivism, “this doctrine is true for me, that doctrine is not true for me”. People forget that in several decades prior to 1960 huge numbers of people were attracted to the Catholic faith by doctrine, many did “read their way” into the Catholic Faith, and led others in as well. Catholic dogma makes sense!
It all fits together - but only if it gets taught. Vatican II reaffirmed doctrine, the many bad RCIA programs do not. (Of course some RCIA programs are good, and my apologies to the original poster for quoting sentences that illustrate my point).
In my parish (no Latin Mass) the pastor does the doctrinal program, rather than typical RCIA. The content based RCIA programs are slowly gaining ground in the US, from what I hear. Don’t rule out RCIA, but ask if the available program is content, or process based.

 

[felsguy]

I don’t know this poster, but this snippet reflects the same approach to RCIA in many parishes near me, in how they view doctrine. The priority is “process”, wherein nothing is presented as absolutely right or wrong, true or false, but everything is relative. They talk about relationship to Christ, but the de-emphasis on doctrine means each person defines their own version of Christ, which could be different for each person, and often different from the Church; for instance, “My Jesus would allow divorcees who love each other to marry” or “My Jesus wouldn’t restrict the priesthood to males” or “My Jesus would never create Hell” or whatever. The “process” suggests that the Church, too, is on a journey, so while Humanae Vitae may have been right for Pope Paul’s time and place, we now know it may not apply to 2013, at this point in our pilgrimage.
**
The “process” tendency is towards an extreme subjectivism, “this doctrine is true for me, that doctrine is not true for me”. **People forget that in several decades prior to 1960 huge numbers of people were attracted to the Catholic faith by doctrine, many did “read their way” into the Catholic Faith, and led others in as well. Catholic dogma makes sense!
It all fits together - but only if it gets taught. Vatican II reaffirmed doctrine, the many bad RCIA programs do not. (Of course some RCIA programs are good, and my apologies to the original poster for quoting sentences that illustrate my point).
In my parish (no Latin Mass) the pastor does the doctrinal program, rather than typical RCIA. The content based RCIA programs are slowly gaining ground in the US, from what I hear. Don’t rule out RCIA, but ask if the available program is content, or process based.

I’m curious about what your personal experience with RCIA is. Your post is a far from accurate description (understanding?) of what the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults is.

.

 

[Phemie]

Have her call the parish office and see if they offer RCIA or can she convert some other way. RCIA is the usual way for adults to come into the Church, but exceptions can be made.

RCIA is the usual way for adults who are unbaptized to come into the Church. That means spending time in the Catechumenate and being baptized at the Easter Vigil (RCIA is often used to refer to the process of catechizing everyone but RCIA specifically refers to the various rites they go through from acceptance into the Catechumenate to Baptism, Confirmation and reception of Communion.

Someone who is already baptized can be received into full Communion at any time and it really should be based on how much preparation they need. Some are ready in 6 weeks, some take a lot longer.

 

[pnewton]

As someone said earlier, there is a distinction between the rites and the classes. The rites of initiation are required. The classes are something subject to the diocesan rules. As to being a traditionalist, that has no more to do with it than someone who wants to say the rosary all the time, or pick a certain patron saint. These different forms of optional spirituality are irrelevant to the unifying rite.

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t know this poster, but this snippet reflects the same approach to RCIA in many parishes near me, in how they view doctrine. The priority is “process”, wherein nothing is presented as absolutely right or wrong, true or false, but everything is relative. They talk about relationship to Christ, but the de-emphasis on doctrine means each person defines their own version of Christ, which could be different for each person, and often different from the Church; for instance, “My Jesus would allow divorcees who love each other to marry” or “My Jesus wouldn’t restrict the priesthood to males” or “My Jesus would never create Hell” or whatever. The “process” suggests that the Church, too, is on a journey …]

Actually the term “process” refers to the four Periods and three Ritual actions of the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults, placing prayer, relationship, knowledge, understanding, repentance, and ongoing Christian conversion into the context of ordinary human lives, so that the person experiences not only good instruction in sound doctrine (which I agree is very important!) but also receives the ability to incorporate it into daily life, and to own it for themselves.

At the beginning of the process, in the Period of Inquiry, we say What does the Church teach? And at the end of the period of Mystagogia the person is able to say, "I believe … " and is living it out on a daily basis.

Some RCIAs do this on a fixed calendar, and others allow the participants to drive the process, going as slowly or quickly as they choose. But nobody is doing anything like what you are describing.

The only reason for asking the participants for their personal opinion would be to see where they are at in the process, to create a program of instruction to meet their needs and bring them to full conversion.

 

[Stephen_Sutor]

A non-Catholic friend always wanted to go to a Traditional Latin Mass (TLM), so five months ago he joins me and has attends every week.

He wanted to learn more about Roman Catholic teachings and become a Catholic. He visited two local parishes and asked to participate in a Catholic learning group. Both parishes have the RCIA program and their requirement was that he attends weekly ‘New’ Masses at their parish. The RCIA programs did not recognize TLM in their program.

I asked my TLM priest for options and he decided to train my friend and welcome him into the Church. The first two books he was asked to read are Catholic Christianity: A Complete Catechism of Catholic Church Beliefs Based on the Catholic Church, and Know Your Mass: Step by step explanation of the Traditional Latin Mass.

Stephen Sutor

 

[crazzeto]

A non-Catholic friend always wanted to go to a Traditional Latin Mass (TLM), so five months ago he joins me and has attends every week.

He wanted to learn more about Roman Catholic teachings and become a Catholic. He visited two local parishes and asked to participate in a Catholic learning group. Both parishes have the RCIA program and their requirement was that he attends weekly ‘New’ Masses at their parish. The RCIA programs did not recognize TLM in their program.

I asked my TLM priest for options and he decided to train my friend and welcome him into the Church. The first two books he was asked to read are Catholic Christianity: A Complete Catechism of Catholic Church Beliefs Based on the Catholic Church, and Know Your Mass: Step by step explanation of the Traditional Latin Mass.

Stephen Sutor

That isn’t a comic from the 50s (or so) is it? We got that for our children.

 

[Stephen_Sutor]

The ‘Catholic Christianity’ book covers all aspects of the faith and is written for an adult. The ‘Know Your Mass’ book explains the parts of the Traditional Latin Mass and is for children but is written in a manner a non-Catholic can follow. Both books are available at Amazon.com

Stephen Sutor

 

[pnewton]

FYI - In our parish, the RCIA program is not an absolute requirement. Both of my children were unable to attend when they were in their teens. The priest let me go through the Catechism with them as tutor and then participate in the Rites. This happened in separate years, so I did this twice.

 

[felsguy]

A non-Catholic friend always wanted to go to a Traditional Latin Mass (TLM), so five months ago he joins me and has attends every week.

He wanted to learn more about Roman Catholic teachings and become a Catholic. He visited two local parishes and asked to participate in a Catholic learning group. Both parishes have the RCIA program and their requirement was that he attends weekly ‘New’ Masses at their parish. The RCIA programs did not recognize TLM in their program.

I asked my TLM priest for options and he decided to train my friend and welcome him into the Church. The first two books he was asked to read are Catholic Christianity: A Complete Catechism of Catholic Church Beliefs Based on the Catholic Church, and Know Your Mass: Step by step explanation of the Traditional Latin Mass.

Stephen Sutor

The RCIA programs did not recognize TLM in their program.

I wasn’t there so I can’t say this really didn’t happen but that statement makes no sense. Are you sure that it wasn’t something more like he was expected to participate in the weekly dismissal and the other rites of RCIA which occur during Mass and those parishes offer Mass only in the OF and not the EF?

.

 

[felsguy]

A non-Catholic friend always wanted to go to a Traditional Latin Mass (TLM), so five months ago he joins me and has attends every week.

He wanted to learn more about Roman Catholic teachings and become a Catholic. He visited two local parishes and asked to participate in a Catholic learning group. Both parishes have the RCIA program and their requirement was that he attends weekly ‘New’ Masses at their parish. The RCIA programs did not recognize TLM in their program.

I asked my TLM priest for options and he decided to train my friend and welcome him into the Church. The first two books he was asked to read are Catholic Christianity: A Complete Catechism of Catholic Church Beliefs Based on the Catholic Church, and Know Your Mass: Step by step explanation of the Traditional Latin Mass.

Stephen Sutor

I asked my TLM priest for options and he decided to train my friend and welcome him into the Church.

There would an upside to your friend being prepared and received into the Church here if this is the parish he will be joining and/or where he will be attending Mass. The downside is that he will miss out on the liturgical rites of formation.

.

 

[Tradosaurus_Rex]

My friend is interested in becoming Catholic. Lately she has been going to the Latin Mass. If she wants to be traditional Catholic does she still have to go through RICA? Thanks

More than likely if she goes to a Latin Mass the priest will give her private instruction on the Faith; and while she does have to go through the rites of being received into the Church, she is not bound by any obligation to only do the RCIA ‘program’ classes that are being offered in an OF parish.

I get the impression that is some correlation between preferring the Extraordinary Form and opposing RCIA. Is this accurate? If so, why is that?

About as accurate as saying since the OF uses RCIA classes mostly conducted by the laity, they are therefore opposed to priests giving converts private instruction.