Should students be involved in abortion protest?

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The first choice posits that they “should wear an armband”, so the second choice should posit that they “should not wear an armband.”

Why is the second choice “Children should not be involved in adult debate”? Why is the poll set up this way? Was it an attempt to “color” the responses? If you want the second choice to be “children should not be involved in adult debate,” then your first choice should have been “children SHOULD be involved in adult debate.” Let’s be fair.

Second, why frame anything in terms of whether it’s an “adult” debate? Whether the tax code is fair or unfair might be an adult debate, but why should anything having to do with the preservation of life be limited to adult debate? Ever?
 
Yes, my poll question was clumsy. The “adult debate” was the argument by disgruntled parents who didn’t want the children involved.
 
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Rosalinda:
Yes, my poll question was clumsy. The “adult debate” was the argument by disgruntled parents who didn’t want the children involved.
Thanks for the explanation!

I’m a little sensitive to this issue because my 14 year old daughter was stuck by herself, defending Catholic teacings, because her Catholic religion teacher declined to correct three other girls who were openly advocating support for homosexual relationships. Thank God she had the courage to stand up for the truth in this “adult debate” when the only adult in the room failed to address the issue!

Peace.
 
The Barrister:
Thanks for the explanation!

I’m a little sensitive to this issue because my 14 year old daughter was stuck by herself, defending Catholic teacings, because her Catholic religion teacher declined to correct three other girls who were openly advocating support for homosexual relationships. Thank God she had the courage to stand up for the truth in this “adult debate” when the only adult in the room failed to address the issue!

Peace.
I know how you feel. The image of the schoolchildren wearing black armbands really knocked me down. Children do know which way is up. Children are very very close to God.

I just found out there will finally be a Mass for Life in Toronto!

Hallelujah!

Saturday 4 June 10 am at St Michaels Cathedral. Fr Colleton (a renowned pro-life priest) will celebrate the Mass and give a short talk on the Culture of Life afterwards. Then folks will march to a nearby abortuary and say the Rosary. Fr Colleton will then meet with some of the Toronto pro-life people and chat. Pray for me, because I want to press the cause of the children and see if he will help us with Kings College and Notre Dame. So yall in upper state NewYork and Rochester and Detroit and Pennsylvania and southeast Ontario and Huron: Come on down! Or up!

By the way, yesterday we found out that Dr Killan (principal of Kings) was on the selection committee for the awards which are going to the abortionists. His job was to resign. If he had resigned, then the Board of Governors could have over-ruled the selection decision. As it stands, the abortionists are being honoured and London is forever stuck with the association with abortionists even though it has overwhelmingly voted against abortion.

The only way to stop this now is for Rev Malloy (President of Notre Dame) to decline his award. The nerve of Killan thinking that the Malloy award could make up for the two abortionist awards! Some Catholic he is! And some Catholics who attend his little college!
 
The London Free Press which ran the story about the children has printed 2 letters from readers none too happy.

This one, “Parental influence in protest lamented” by Andrew Mailer.

"Regarding the article, Pupils send message (June 1).

It has always irked me to see parents have children involved protesting abortion in front of a hospital.

Now, we have children wearing armbands at a track meet, urged on by people who should know better.

This is wrong and the principals involved should be ashamed.

I applaud University of Western Ontario president Paul Davenport for sticking to his decision to honour Dr. Henry Morgentaler."
 
Kids used as pawns in Morgentaler debate by Derek Groves.

"Regarding the article, Pupils send message.

It seems one Grage 7 Parkhill Sacred Heart student thinks that unborn babies develop in their mom’s stomach, while a Grade 6 student states, "All the parents decided to so this and I thought it was a pretty good idea."

Clearly some of the children who attended the Catholic school board track and field meet at UWO’s TD Watherhouse Stadium were being used as pawns to deliver a message that they don’t understand.

This kind of exploitation is wrong, regardless of which side of the abortion rights argument you favour.

Your article should have been titled, Parents, school and church use
pupils to send message."
 
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Rosalinda:
Chicago, I liked your comments on post #10 so much that I have just used them in a letter to the editor. Hope you don’t mind I stole your ideas.
Not at all. I’m flattered. Very nice letter! I may have to steal it back. 😉

In all seriousness, however, I very much do believe that the activation of this lobby to push matters forward for enabling this understanding is something crucial (and sadly largely lacking) in winning the battle. People can’t relate to an unborn baby, because it’s out of sight/out of mind. Nobody remembers being a fetus or grasps the difficulties of walking in their shoes (well ok fetuses don’t wear shoes, but you get the idea.) However, they CAN relate to the young person here before them who experiences very real pain and expresses this trial in their fight for freedom.
 
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Holly3278:
I think they should wear the armbands.
Holy - To write about the offensive Pope Cartoon:
Rabble Rousers - editor@rabble.ca
rabble-rousers@rabble.ca

London Free Press - Letters to the Editor:
letters@lfpress.com

Dr. Davenport - pdavenpo@uwo.ca

Fr. Malloy - malloy.5@nd.edu
bradley.27@nd.edu

Fr. Malloy’s Bishop - mschott@fw.diocesefwsb.org

Cardinal Newman Society - info@cardinalnewmansociety.org

Talk show hosts who might prove helpful:
Michael Medved - culturalcrusader@aol.com
Hugh Hewitt - hhewitt@hughhewitt.com
Sean Hannity - hannity@foxnews.com
hannity.com/index/contact-form
during the show (3 - 6 pm est) 800-941-7326
Michael Savage - michaelsavage@paulreveresociety.com
Rabbi Smulley Boteach - Samuelfm@netvision.net.il
Dennis Prager - dennisprager@dennisprager.com
David Limbaugh - david@davidlimbaugh.com

Bill O’Reilly let us down betrayed us badly during and after the Terri Schiavo affeir If you think he still might be useful, you can try him here - oreilly@foxnews.com

I think it’s time to get Talk-Tadio involved. Some of these guys may Demagogue the issue, but they will get people to join us.

May God richly bless those who act to save His Little Ones. Michael
 
Rosalinda said:
Kids used as pawns in Morgentaler debate by Derek Groves.

"Regarding the article, Pupils send message.

It seems one Grage 7 Parkhill Sacred Heart student thinks that unborn babies develop in their mom’s stomach, while a Grade 6 student states, "All the parents decided to so this and I thought it was a pretty good idea."

Clearly some of the children who attended the Catholic school board track and field meet at UWO’s TD Watherhouse Stadium were being used as pawns to deliver a message that they don’t understand.

This kind of exploitation is wrong, regardless of which side of the abortion rights argument you favour.

Your article should have been titled, Parents, school and church use
pupils to send message."

Rosalinda:

These same people who said this have NO problems dragging kids down to demonstrations, even using school buses and time the kids should be studying, for THEIR PET CAUSES, whether they are Against the War in Iraq, to End World Hunger, in Opposition to School Vouchers, for their favorite welfare program, or for whatever cause they believe in… You can bet the students don’t understand any of these causes, and that they’re going along to get along.

I just wish the media would allow us to expose this rank hypocrisy!

May God richly bless those who act to save His Little Ones. Michael
 
Traditional Ang:
Holy - To write about the offensive Pope Cartoon: Rabble Rousers - editor@rabble.ca
rabble-rousers@rabble.ca
No, don’t even think about writing the rabble website. They are enjoying the negative attention too much. If you want to shut them down and today’s renewed spate of anti-Catholic profanity, seems to indicate that this is the route to go, then:

PHONE
BISHOP
GRECCO
(416) 769-6001


or

BILL
GRAHAM
416 954 2222


I certainly think it is worthwhile mentioning that the editor of rabble (Sharon Fraser) purports to be Catholic and that you think she should be publicly denied communion until she publishes an apology for her remote material cooperation in that website and resigns her position. The Bishop’s assistant remembers Judy Rebick from her NAC times.
 
Ani, That is an understatement about Sharon Fraser’s “remote material cooperation.”
 
Catholic School Students’ Pro-Life Demonstration Powerful, But Riles Some

lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jun/05060605.html

LONDON, June 6, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The University of Western Ontario’s controversial decision to give Canadian abortionist Henry Morgentaler an honorary Doctor of Laws degree at its June 16th convocation, continues to cause a stir. Among the growing opposition to this decision, student athletes of the London Catholic School board protested at a track and field meet at the UWO campus by wearing black wristbands.
“It sort of stands for all the (unborn) babies that have been killed in the moms’ stomach,” said 12 year-old Henry Peters, a long-distance runner.

The very powerful demonstration by the Catholic students has, however, raised the ire of some. Henry Svec, a psychologist who claims to be Catholic and runs a consultation service for educators and professionals, appeared Thursday on the CBC radio show, Ontario Morning claiming that the London Catholic School board was using children for a private political agenda. “To me its about . . . using children, adults and an organization using children to push their agenda,” said Svec. That ‘agenda’ as Svec called it was the pro-life agenda which is supposed to be held by all Catholics.

Svec tried to present the issue as a beyond the grasp of, and perhaps even injurious to the children participating in the track meet. “To suggest children have choice and can understand this whole issue of abortion . . . To suggest that children should be brought into this is absolutely ridiculous.”

Svec also launched a personal attack on the professional judgement of Joe Rapai, the Catholic school board’s education director. “I’m surprised that the director of education would have such a fundamental lack of knowledge about what children really need,” said Svec.

Beyond that, Svec implied that Rapai was not telling the truth. The CBC interviewer noted that Mr. Rapai said parents approved of the demonstration. Svec retorted, “Well I think of course he’s going to say that, but I think that obviously we need to talk to the parents as well.”

Given Svec’s venomous attacks listeners wondered about his motivation in railing against the wrist-ban Morgentaler protest. However, when he betrayed his anti-Catholic bias, his interest in the story was better understood. “Well its no surprise that the Catholic school doesn’t respect the rights of children, nor women, and I think that’s another total issue,” he said.

When allowed to speak for themselves, however, the students were more than capable of expressing the convictions that Dr. Svec insisted they were incapable of having. Nathan Vandersanden, who was running in the 1,500 metres yesterday, said, “This is just to say that abortions are wrong,” he said of the wristbands. “All the parents decided to do this and I thought it was a pretty good idea.”

Contact Dr. Svec:
London (519) 850-0464,
Chatham (519) 351-5518,
Sarnia (519) 337-7222
By email:
**240grand@cogeco.net**** **
 
London Free Press letter by Nadia Lytwenko, June 7.

Pupils’ wristband protest inappropriate

:tsktsk: "Regarding the article, Pupils send message(June 1).

I was disturbed to learn that some students representing Sacred Heart elementary wore black wristbands to protest Dr. M.'s impending honorary degree, during their track meet last Tuesday.

Whether we, as adults, agree with M.'s position or not shouldn’t be advertised through our children. A child of 10 or 11 will have little understanding of such a convoluted social issue as abortion. Adults have enough difficulty grappling with the idea.

To involve our children in either the "pro-choice’ or “pro-life” camps is irresponsible and dangerous.

This is an adult issue - our children are not billboards for our moral opinions. The wrist-bands at the meet were completely inappropriate."
 
Finally, after a week of criticism in the press a letter by Deborah Squire in support of the children. London Free Press, June 8.

Children can see truth about abortion

"Regarding the article, ‘Pupils send message’.
** Good for the kids who stood up for what they believe in and for what their families believe.**
Henry Peters, the Grade 7 pupil (out of the mouths of babes), is quoted as saying, "It sort of stands for all the (unborn) babies that have been killed in the moms’ stomach."
** It’s the adults who have complicated the issue; it’s the children in their innocence who can tell us the truth of the matter, killing babies is wrong."**
 
A letter from Rosemary Harwick in the LFP today.

Pupils’ wristbands send strong message

"The pupils at Sacred Heart School, by choosing to wear the black wristbands, were able to send a powerful message regarding the unacceptability of Dr. M’s honorary degree from UWO.

By their witness, they demonstated true integrity (wholeness of mind, body and spirit), something rarely seen in our world today – especially in the political milieu. They didn’t leave their morals and thoughts in their classrooms, homes or in the church. They made a difference.


** Thanks kids, we could learn a lot from you."**
 
Sacred Heart pupils’ protest shows the way by Herman Goodden of the London Free Press, June 10 on Opinion Page.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/London/Herman_Goodden/2005/06/10/1079872.html

"It will be interesting next Thursday, at the convocation ceremonies at Alumni Hall, to see how many people feel compelled to turn out, either to protest or to support UWO’s granting of an honorary doctorate of laws degree to Canada’s foremost advocate and practitioner of abortion, Dr M…

**Though polls reveal public opinion is pretty evenly divided between the anti-abortion and pro-choice camps, I expect the pro-lifers will carry the day next Thursday by a very hefty margin. **
**While the man undeniably has his acolytes, as charismatic figureheads go, Dr. M. is a pretty damp squib, lacking both charm and eloquence, and given to blurting poisonous, insupportable and self-promoting bromides about how much his work has driven down crime rates in contemporary Canadian society. **

**While many Canadians are convinced that unfettered access to abortion is an important human right that must be maintained, they understandably shrink at the prospect of attesting to that conviction in a public way, particularly if it means teaming up with a man such as Dr M. **

**Their position is a tortuous one, full of nuances and counter-considerations. **

**The pickle they find themselves in is not unlike that experienced by certain social libertarians who may be instinctively opposed to any kind of censorship, but would be loath to actually turn out in support of the work of some oily pornographer whose products only degraded their cause. **

**When called upon to show their colours, not very many pro-choicers are comfortable to be seen standing shoulder to shoulder with a vain and self-serving eugenicist, waving a placard that says, in effect, “Hey, I think exterminating preborn human beings is fundamentally a good idea.” **

**Of all the preliminary protests, on campus and off, leading up to next Thursday’s convocation, none has drawn the sort of fire that greeted the silent protest of a group of Catholic elementary students from Parkhill, participating in a track and field meet on UWO campus. **

**This Grade 7 class from Sacred Heart school all wore black wristbands at the May 31 meet. **

**Asked to explain the significance of his wristband, one 12-year-old long-distance runner said, “It sort of stands for all the babies that have been killed in the moms’ stomach.” **

**Among those who were offended by this protest, two main themes have emerged, both of them articulated in that same newspaper article and a subsequent CBC interview by child psychologist, Dr. Svec. **

**One of Svec’s assertions questioned the appropriateness of drawing the students into the debate in this way. “Sport is to be pure,” Svec told the paper. “Sport is about sport. You shouldn’t be bringing in other political issues.” **

**This seemed particularly rich, in light of the fact it was that same precise dynamic of school administrators and leaders imposing an agenda upon a non-political event - a university convocation -that inspired this protest in the first place. **

**As Catholic students who may one day go in search of a university to attend where the pro-life convictions of their church aren’t disregarded and insulted, it is indeed unfortunate that these students were dragged into this debate. **

**But the person who ultimately dragged them into it was UWO president Paul Davenport, in promoting the scheme to honour M in this way. **

**The second common theme showing up in various commentaries is that these pre-teen students were simply too young to be grappling with an issue as controversial as abortion. **

**As Svec said, “I don’t think they understand – nor do many of us – the complexities of this problem.” **

**Of course, 12-year-olds can’t handle complexities with the dexterity of an accredited child psychologist, but I would argue that they are therefore better equipped than most adults to discern fundamental issues of right and wrong. **

And cherishing their own lives as they do, they are far more likely than compromised adults to reject the use of a procedure so extreme as that which ends a nascent human life as a form of nothing more than sloppy, retroactive contraception."
 
Sacred Heart pupils’ protest shows the way by Herman Goodden of the London Free Press, June 10 on Opinion Page.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/London/Herman_Goodden/2005/06/10/1079872.html

"It will be interesting next Thursday, at the convocation ceremonies at Alumni Hall, to see how many people feel compelled to turn out, either to protest or to support UWO’s granting of an honorary doctorate of laws degree to Canada’s foremost advocate and practitioner of abortion, Dr M.

**Though polls reveal public opinion is pretty evenly divided between the anti-abortion and pro-choice camps, I expect the pro-lifers will carry the day next Thursday by a very hefty margin. **
**While the man undeniably has his acolytes, as charismatic figureheads go, Dr M. is a pretty damp squib, lacking both charm and eloquence, and given to blurting poisonous, insupportable and self-promoting bromides about how much his work has driven down crime rates in contemporary society. **

**While many are convinced that unfettered access to abortion is an important human right that must be maintained, they understandably shrink at the prospect of attesting to that conviction in a public way, particularly if it means teaming up with a man such as Dr M. **

**Their position is a tortuous one, full of nuances and counter-considerations. **

**The pickle they find themselves in is not unlike that experienced by certain social libertarians who may be instinctively opposed to any kind of censorship, but would be loath to actually turn out in support of the work of some oily pornographer whose products only degraded their cause. **

**When called upon to show their colours, not very many pro-choicers are comfortable to be seen standing shoulder to shoulder with a vain and self-serving eugenicist, waving a placard that says, in effect, “Hey, I think exterminating preborn human beings is fundamentally a good idea.” **

**Of all the preliminary protests, on campus and off, leading up to next Thursday’s convocation, none has drawn the sort of fire that greeted the silent protest of a group of Catholic elementary students, participating in a track and field meet on UWO campus. **

**In a move that was spurred by their parents, their principal and their pastor, this Grade 7 class all wore black wristbands at the May 31 meet. **

**Asked by the LFP to explain the significance of his wristband, one 12-year-old long-distance runner said, “It sort of stands for all the babies that have been killed in the moms’ stomach.” **

**Among those who were offended by this protest, two main themes have emerged, both of them articulated in that same newspaper article and a subsequent CBC Radio interview by child psychologist, Dr. Svec. **

**One of Svec’s assertions questioned the appropriateness of drawing the students into the debate in this way. “Sport is to be pure,” Svec told the paper. “Sport is about sport. You shouldn’t be bringing in other political issues.” **

**This seemed particularly rich, in light of the fact it was that same precise dynamic of school administrators and leaders imposing an agenda upon a non-political event - a university convocation - that inspired this protest in the first place. **

**As Catholic students who may one day go in search of a university to attend where the pro-life convictions of their church aren’t disregarded and insulted, it is indeed unfortunate that these students were dragged into this debate. **

**But the person who ultimately dragged them into it was UWO president Paul Davenport, in promoting the scheme to honour Dr M. in this way. **

**The second common theme showing up in various commentaries is that these pre-teen students were simply too young to be grappling with an issue as controversial as abortion. **

**As Svec said, “I don’t think they understand – nor do many of us – the complexities of this problem.” **

**Of course, 12-year-olds can’t handle complexities with the dexterity of an accredited child psychologist, but I would argue that they are therefore better equipped than most adults to discern fundamental issues of right and wrong. **

And cherishing their own lives as they do, they are far more likely than compromised adults to reject the use of a procedure so extreme as that which ends a nascent human life as a form of nothing more than sloppy, retroactive contraception."
 
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