Should the 19 year old Florida school shooter be given the death penalty?

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godisgood77 said:
I fully disagree… there is a clear alternative to the death penalty in this case. If you refer the CCC passage I referenced earlier, a good Catholic wouldn’t be able to support the death penalty in this instance.

A state’s right to apply it, doesn’t mean a Catholic can support it.
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It is the church that recognizes this as a State’s right. Yes, I understand your interpretation of 2267. Mine is different in that it accords not just with that single passage in the catechism but with all the catechisms prior to it.
 
The Church’s teaching is unambiguous in this case. The teaching has grown over time to a more fuller teaching. It does not leave room for what you classify as your interpretation.

Do you agree that there are viable alternatives to protect society from this individual in this case? Incarceration for instance?
 
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Excellent point. The taking of prescribed psychotropic medication (the wrong one, or the wrong dosage, or its interactions if more than one medication is given) by some teenagers can have harmful results, often suicidal ideation and attempts, sometimes aggressive tendencies. That is why the effects of these drugs must be continually monitored by a physician, especially when prescribed to young people. This is certainly a third variable, together with the proliferation of guns and the maltreatment of mental disorders.
 
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Prisoners kill, rape, and escape all the time. That tired platitude remains just that: a tired platitude.
 
godisgood77 said:
Do you agree that there are viable alternatives to protect society from this individual in this case?
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No, I do not. Also, I don’t see anyone taking into account the psychological torture and trauma inflicted on a family of a murdered student if the criminal lives. If the criminal is allowed to live, then every day the family is beset with enormous grief and torment asking why this monster is being served free meals three times a day, why this monster is given free medical care, why this monster can lift weights and work out in prison, why this monster can play games with other ;prisoners, why this monster can have fun playing basketball, while their beautiful daughter who was only attending school was shot dead on the spot? Tell me please, why is it fair to torment these beautiful families?
 
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Glad we had St JPII, have Pope Francis and the Catechism in charge and not you, my friend
 
Sorry you can’t see iir as it is quite evident to many… also the CCC is plain spoken on the topic.

The Church does not make room for satisfaction through revenge… killing this kid won’t bring peace these families for what they have lost… it will in fact haunt them further, I believe.
 
I’m a US Air Force officer.

The purpose of Ramstein Air Base is to support US and allied movement in the Middle East and the far West (think support of Turkey and the former Soviet republics). We are there at the behest and invitation of the German government. (This is why US Air Force bases overseas are Air Bases and not Air Force Bases: the base is not sovereign US territory and can’t be. If the Germans requested we leave, we’d leave - just as when we pulled all combatant forces out of Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia after the deposition of Saddam Hussein). The Army hospital (Landshtul Regional Medical Center) at Ramstein is so vital to the local economy that when there was talk in the Pentagon of relocating it when the new hospital is built, the mayor of Landshtul testified before our Congress, enumerating the reasons it should remain. It’s staying.

NATO and other UN organizations are also headquartered at our bases there, especially at Ramstein, which is also the headquarters for US Air Forces Europe (USAFE). It’s not just us. And of course NATO now has its eye on Russia.

I won’t pretend that our reasons there have always been 100% noble. But our presence in Germany does serve a purpose. We’re not just there spending taxpayer bucks without reason.

(Wanted to add I’m not trolling; I have joined the forum out of a lifelong and recently growing interest in the Catholic faith. I saw this post, and felt compelled to respond. Thanks. 😉 )
 
godisgood77 said:
Sorry you can’t see iir as it is quite evident to many…
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But not everyone.
godisgood77 said:
The Church does not make room for satisfaction through revenge…
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So it is OK to torment these families and let them know that the man who killed their daughter is having a great time playing basketball with the other inmates? And that he is being served free meals, three times a day, has free medical care. And he has access to a great prison library. How nice to have so much sympathy for this monster.
 
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godisgood77 said:
Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform.
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I think Saint JPII had it right. Nomatter how evil his actions were, nomatter how mentally disturbed and insane, if the state can ensure he never can harm society again, then like Jesus, offer forgiveness, love, and mercy and the chance to reform would be best. As Catholics we must work for the salvation of all, as long as evildoers have breathe, there is hope for their repentance.

It is not our natural reaction, but should be our supernatural response of grace, to forgive the evil, yet seek justice for the wrong in thr form of incarceration. If there is no other way and there is the chance he would escape, then the death penalty may be considered.
 
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AlNg said:
So it is OK to torment these families
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Yes. If tormenting them (using your words, not mine) means respecting human dignity, then that is the right option… as tough as it may be. But the Church has much experience in this area, so we should trust the Church’s teaching
 
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Without knowing all of the details, I believe that he needs to be in a very strong family that can keep him in check, make him feel like he belongs somewhere and give him the love that he needs to change into the man that God created him to be. I truly believe that any time we start deciding other’s fates like this, it is dangerous territory because it could lead to justifying the killing of innocent people. We continue to be tempted to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
 
godisgood77 said:
The Church’s teaching is unambiguous in this case.
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I don’t think it’s ambiguous either. I just understand it differently.
The teaching has grown over time to a more fuller teaching. It does not leave room for what you classify as your interpretation.
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I’m not giving you my interpretation. I’m citing the position the church has taken for 2000 years.
Do you agree that there are viable alternatives to protect society from this individual in this case? Incarceration for instance?
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Yes, there are probably other alternatives. What I don’t agree with is the belief that the secondary consideration of protection should determine the extent of the punishment.
 
No, I’m not saying I prefer the death penalty in this case or any other case. I wouldn’t want to be on a jury that had to decide this. I would prefer to live in a state that did not have the death penalty on the table. I have been selected for juries several times and think if I was called for jury selection I would likely be selected. There you don’t get to debate the pros and cons of it. You have to uphold the law as stated. What I said was what I thought might come up among jurors. Giving the death penalty would haunt me.
 
Ender said:
We can debate that point,
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Isn’t that what we’ve been doing?

We agree that true justice is what needs to prevail so that the disorder incurred can be redressed. However, we disagree on the form of that justice.
 
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