Should the 19 year old Florida school shooter be given the death penalty?

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México es un país muy violento, entre otras cosas tiene guerras con cárteles de la droga. En Europa no puedes llevar armas y no pasa absolutamente nada. Aquí no hay matanzas como las de EEUU. La segunda enmienda es una ley del siglo XVIII completamente anticuada, escrita por gente en una época en la que no había armas ni remotamente parecidas a las de ahora.

De hecho, en el “salvaje oeste” de los vaqueros no podías entrar en un pueblo sin antes entregar tus armas al sherif, cosa que ya no se cumple. Eran más civilizados en aquella época que ahora
The 2nd is not a product of the 18th century (17th century) and the weapons are fundamentally the same. Your understanding of the “west” is a bit of a red herring, and certainly not all towns required you to turn in your guns when visiting town.
 
The weapons are fundamentally the same? Is that a joke? So submachine guns capable of massacres like Columbine were available in the 18th century? Many towns required handing guns to the sheriff because they understood that that’s what police is for, and it was only when traveling that guns were necessary. How on earth that lesson somehow became unlearned by the 20th century and still remains unlearned is beyond me, but innocent people die every year because of that.

I do seriously recommend the US thinks about whether it wants to take the word of the weapons manufacturing lobby on what constitutes safety guarantees for Americans.
 
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FYI, submachine guns aren’t in the home gun cabinet and weren’t used in Columbine.

Columbine shooters used explosives, shotguns, and pistols.
 
It doesn’t matter, that kind of firepower was not readily available to high school children when the 2nd amendment was written. And they didn’t have a police force like today. It was a other universe, where white settlers fought with native Americans and settlements were often attacked and the roads weren’t safe like today.

It was a completely different universe, appealing to an 18th century law about firearms is a very poor argument. Do you really think it protects Americans from “government tyranny”? If the army was deployed, citizens would not stand a chance, no matter how safe they feel with their weapons caches.
 
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Or maybe they need to destroy the cartels once and for all. Mexico is not a good example, seriously. Europe is more similar to the US, you should take us as the example to follow, not a country that exports a lot of immigrants to its neighbor in the north looking for economic opportunities. Obviously, I’m not being racist, but I am pointing out the economic realities of the different countries.
I think the 2nd is one of the reasons we do have such a safe country, one where you don’t have to be armed to feel safe
Let me get this straight: you’re saying the fact that people are armed makes your country a safe spot where you don’t have to be armed? And also you’re, for some reason, ignoring the extremely large number of massacres that occur in the US, in SCHOOLS, where young Americans go every day. Do you seriously believe you feel safer in the US than we do in Europe?

Take it from us, get rid of the 2nd amendment, it’s nothing but trouble. The only people that profit from it are weapons manufacturers, and they’re doing so at the cost of innocent lives.
 
Let me get this straight: you’re saying the fact that people are armed makes your country a safe spot where you don’t have to be armed? And also you’re, for some reason, ignoring the extremely large number of massacres that occur in the US, in SCHOOLS, where young Americans go every day. Do you seriously believe you feel safer in the US than we do in Europe?
I’m saying that the historical fact that many citizens were armed has impacted our culture in a positive direction, where we are generally a very safe country outside of specific high crime areas. It’s impacted or represented by basic mores and expectations that are widely shared.

US schools are quite safe statistically, the trend has been going down.

 
Or maybe they need to destroy the cartels once and for all. Mexico is not a good example, seriously. Europe is more similar to the US, you should take us as the example to follow, not a country that exports a lot of immigrants to its neighbor in the north looking for economic opportunities. Obviously, I’m not being racist, but I am pointing out the economic realities of the different countries.
I was responding to someone posting in spanish who was complaining about how it was in the US, they introduced Mexico and the cartels into their post. I used google translate.

BTW, what country are you from?
 
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Do you include high schools as “high crime areas” exempt from the general rule that the US is “safe country”?
 
I’m from the country where the language spoken in Mexico originated
 
Do you include high schools as “high crime areas” exempt from the general rule that the US is “safe country”?
Why are you introducing exemptions, I didn’t say that?

General means on average for the country. I would expect the high schools located in high crime areas to reflect their broader neighborhood, do you imagine otherwise?
 
US schools are quite safe statistically, the trend has been going down.
I don’t look upon the 17 innocent people shot dead in Parkland as a statistic. They were human beings with families and friends who loved them. They are not a statistic. This is the problem with the gun lobby. It is wrong for those who want guns to dehumanize people and look upon others as statistics and not as human beings. Where is the love and the charity Christians are supposed to have toward our fellow human beings?
 
The comment above says rightly that Jesus would speak against abortion, against the death penalty, and to that I would add: against euthanasia. Undeniably, Jesus is pro-life on all counts.
Wouldn’t He have taken the Good Thief off the Cross? I mean, he was sorry…🤔🤔🤔
 
I don’t look upon the 17 innocent people shot dead in Parkland as a statistic. They were human beings with families and friends who loved them. They are not a statistic. This is the problem with the gun lobby. It is wrong for those who want guns to dehumanize people and look upon others as statistics and not as human beings. Where is the love and the charity Christians are supposed to have toward our fellow human beings?
Neither do I, but your emotional response is not an excuse to misrepresent the scope of the issue across the country. Learn to make facts your friend, not your enemy, if you want to actually cause change.
 
I can imagine a country where even high schools
Located in high crime areas have negligible risk of a maniac who bought weapons using his mother’s license using them to kill dozens of people. That country’s name is “insert any Western European country”.

And do you really think those school shootings only happen in high crime neighborhoods? No. They can happen anywhere, it’s not the neighborhood, it’s the fact that you can buy weapons easier than you can buy Serrano ham in Spain, and believe me, a Spaniard never lets a day go by without eating Serrano ham.
 
The comment above says rightly that Jesus would speak against abortion, against the death penalty, and to that I would add: against euthanasia. Undeniably, Jesus is pro-life on all counts.
Proof? When did he oppose the death penalty? He actually conceded that Pilate had authority given from above to execute him. If Jesus was so obviously anti-death penalty, Aquinas and Augustine sure missed it
 
I never suggested these mass shootings were due to the neighborhood.
In fact they tend to happen in solid middle class schools that aren’t in high crime neighborhoods.
 
My message to the US: you’re a great country, but you have issues you need to deal with ASAP. Eisenhower warned of the military-industrial complex almost 60 years ago, heed his warning!

That’s my two cents, let’s put an end to this discussion
 
They are one in the same… the Catholic teaching is that which is authoritatively taught by the Church.
I think the problem is caused by your understanding of what the phrase “the traditional teaching of the church” means. It doesn’t mean there are normal and unusual forms; it means there are doctrines that have been taught and repeated throughout church history. Something therefore that is part of the traditional teaching of the church can be traced back through history. This is the case of capital punishment whose origins can be traced back to the earliest years of the church.

When the catechism claims that the caveat restricting the use of capital punishment is part of the traditional teaching it is claiming that it was historically taught, that it too can be found in the history of church doctrine. That is the claim I have said is incorrect. It is not part of the historical teaching on the matter.
 
The ordering of the punishment to the crime is a necessary but not sufficient condition for the use of capital punishment. All capital punishments throughout all history were unjust if bloodless means were available to protect society.
This is not true. The church never had that as a requirement for the use of capital punishment…prior to 1995. States have had, however, the capability of imprisoning people for life for centuries, and probably for millennia.
The just application of capital punishment requires consideration of circumstances beyond the crime itself.
The circumstances of particular cases may indeed cause a punishment that is appropriate in one case to be inappropriate in another, but these conditions are prudential. The relevant doctrine says that if the severity of the punishment is commensurate with the severity of the crime, the punishment is just. It may not, because of practical considerations, be wise in particular instances.
If capital punishment is a just punishment for one crime of first degree murder where conditions did not allow bloodless means to protect society then it is a just punishment for all such crimes and conditions
The justness of the punishment depends on two things: is its severity appropriate for the crime, and are there any particular considerations that might mitigate the sentence? For capital punishment, death is always of the appropriate severity. Whether there are mitigating conditions is a judgment call. The necessity for protection is not something that can lessen the punishment a person deserves.
 
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