Should the Catholic Church lose their tax exempt status?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mannyfit75
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Mannyfit75

Guest
Because the US Government condone abortion, do you think the Catholic Church lose their tax exempt status?

Pro-Choice Advocates says that we should lose it. Why or why not?
 
Wellllllllllllllllllll…I get where they’re coming from; however, the Church just has a stance on the pro-choice/pro-life argument–there’s really nothing else the Church can do. Besides, there are people not in the Church who are pro-life, who are not tax exempt, so, it doesn’t make much sense, at least to me. Besides, if the government started taxing the Church, then, uh, there’d be a lot of constitutional issues there.
 
Wellllllllllllllllllll…I get where they’re coming from; however, the Church just has a stance on the pro-choice/pro-life argument–there’s really nothing else the Church can do. Besides, there are people not in the Church who are pro-life, who are not tax exempt, so, it doesn’t make much sense, at least to me. Besides, if the government started taxing the Church, then, uh, there’d be a lot of constitutional issues there.
The biggest problem I see with tax exemption for religious groups is the inability to speak for what is right and good in Church for fear of “losing” the tax exempt status. I don’t know anything about the tax laws, but I do know when I asked my parish priest about some Pro Life literature to be passed out in the Church, he said, “We have to be careful of the tax exempt status”. My gut reaction was so lose it, but I really don’t know anything about it, so will keep my mouth shut.
 
Because the US Government condone abortion, do you think the Catholic Church lose their tax exempt status?

Pro-Choice Advocates says that we should lose it. Why or why not?
No, Tax exemptions should apply to all non-profit organisations. The Church is a Not for profit religious organisation. That’s why.

This arguement is totally redundant because political advocacy organisations are Also tax exempt and not for profit.
 
The biggest problem I see with tax exemption for religious groups is the inability to speak for what is right and good in Church for fear of “losing” the tax exempt status. I don’t know anything about the tax laws, but I do know when I asked my parish priest about some Pro Life literature to be passed out in the Church, he said, “We have to be careful of the tax exempt status”. My gut reaction was so lose it, but I really don’t know anything about it, so will keep my mouth shut.
i would disagree with the preist because political advocacy organisations that push such ideals are also Tax exempt. Why should the church not be exempt for pushing the pro-life message out of our Religious belief?

The NRA is tax exempt too(it’s constitutional!)… and they push the Pro-gun message politically!

This is a redundant arguement.
 
i would disagree with the preist because political advocacy organisations that push such ideals are also Tax exempt. Why should the church not be exempt for pushing the pro-life message out of our Religious belief?

The NRA is tax exempt too(it’s constitutional!)… and they push the Pro-gun message politically!

This is a redundant arguement.
Sort of the way I thought. He is quite laid back, getting ready for retirement in a couple of years, so I don’t think he has paid much attention to this.
 
This question is a red herring. Tax exempt status is conferred BY the Federal Government. No Federal, state, or local official is walking into a church and revoking somebody’s status based on a speech, homily, or moral issue that SHOULD be the province of religion. There would be a National outcry on every level from EVERY organization because they would all be next. You would have to eliminate the U.S. Constitution and all the laws pertaining to freedom of speech to accomplish this. No other group can afford to do this because it would affect them as well. The establishment clause is used to muzzle religious groups, but that was never its intent. It was designed to prevent the state from enacting a state religion—like the Church of England, where the people who wrote the document fled FROM.

This priest in post 3 does not want to upset the social apple cart in the parish. Unfortunately, it appears he has grown weary of doing well. It’s a shame. Like many, he has learned that the parish (and possibly the bishop) will not support him. Anybody that advocates for the teachings of the Church is a problem to the sleeping multitudes. People have had their conscience anesthetized. Those who remain awake are labeled as nutcases or as fanatics. Religious fanatic is applied as a final dismissal.

Finally, even IF we could lose our tax status based on speech directed at morality or social action with a moral outcome, wouldn’t it be worth it? Are we that comfortable with evil? I believe if we took a strong stand on what we actually believe that we would attract so many people that we would be largely unaffected. Do we trust the hand of God so little that we cannot stand for what we say we believe? We must not fail to answer the wake up call we have been given.
 
Because the US Government condone abortion, do you think the Catholic Church lose their tax exempt status?

Pro-Choice Advocates says that we should lose it. Why or why not?
Manny,

It’s ridiculous and really absurd for the Catholic Church to lose tax exempt status. This comes from enemies of the Church. The Church has an obligation to speak out on moral issues. To allow her to be silenced would be a grave injustice, and just what our enemies would want. There is no legal ground for this, but just evil desire against the Church. Nothing new, just take your pick on the topic. They’ll attack anywhere and everywhere they can. We must continue to pray for the Pope, Bishops and all the faithful.
 
Advocating a political point of view, without naming names, is OK for a tax-exempt organization. Advocating a particular candidate or party is not allowed…
The NRA is tax exempt too(it’s constitutional!)… and they push the Pro-gun message politically!
This is a redundant arguement.
The NRA is indeed tax-exempt. However, donations to its political arm, the NRA-ILA (Institute for Legislative Action), are not tax-deductible, because the NRA-ILA is not tax-exempt.

The NRA can say, “Vote pro-gun,” and the Church can say “Vote pro-life.” They cannot promote a specific candidate, because of the rules about being tax exempt.

The NRA-ILA can, and does, say “Vote for Candidate X, because his record on gun issues is good.”

Maybe the Catholic Church needs a CC-ILA!

By the way, tax-exempt status is why the CAF set up a different (taxable) entity to sponsor the one forum where we are allowed to mention political candidates’ names.

God bless us all,

Ruthie, pro-life and pro-gun voter
 
The NRA-ILA can, and does, say “Vote for Candidate X, because his record on gun issues is good.”
Not a valid comparison. The gun issue is already protected by the Second Amendment. Pro-life unfortunately isn’t, according to the Supreme Court.

However, I don’t see where the Church couldn’t try to push the matter of Roe vs Wade onto the states where it logically should belong. The states can set the limitations and penalties and the Church could assist with supplying counselors and such.

And going back to the gun issue, I’m sure the Church isn’t too comfortable in everyone having a gun either but it knows that it is part of the US Constitution and always has been. So fighting that would probably get enough folks to do something about their tax status.
 
I apologize to all. I was using the NRA only as an example of how a non-profit can set up an arm that is not tax exempt, in order to endorse specific political candidates. Unions and other organizations do it too; NRA is the one I’m most familiar with.

I had no intention of hijacking the thread. If you want to discuss gun rights, please start a new thread.

The same goes for anyone else who might be tempted to veer off-topic.

God bless us all,

Ruthie
 
To begin with I need to be up front that although I was baptised and raised catholic I lost my faith along the way. Too many “cafeteria” Catholics raised questions that I found my faith could not answer. Even so I feel a connection with the Church though not as strongly as before.

This recent news about the Bishops taking on the US government has promted me to start wondering about the separation of church and state.

In the news there is a lot of press about the Catholic Church trying to exert control over the US government. Thereby exerting control over non-Catholics. Personally I feel this violates freedom of religion.

The issue at hand is that the US government allows people to make their own choice about abortion. The Catholic Church is trying to get the government to repeal those rights because of their religious beliefs.

This clear cut case indicates to me that it is time to examine the tax exempt status of the Church. I feel if the Church wishes to reap the benefits of the government enforcing the laws they choose they should be willing to pay for that right as does any other who wishes to have that priviledge.
 
So if a government supports ANY position, we as citizens should never try to change it? What about slavery, prostitution, or legalizing narcotics use?

Using your points, logically, we should not allow any lobby or body to be tax exempt. Remember that the Church has the right and obligation to comment on (and lobby its members for or against) issues of morality or spirituality. Nobody is suggesting that Catholicsm become the state religion of the US. Holding a particular viewpoint is NOT a reason to bestow or eliminate tax exempt status.

This is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Doing what you suggest would eliminate quite a lot of good in this country in order to suppress free speech. It would have to apply to ALL organizations, not just the Catholic Church
 
To begin with I need to be up front that although I was baptised and raised catholic I lost my faith along the way. Too many “cafeteria” Catholics raised questions that I found my faith could not answer. Even so I feel a connection with the Church though not as strongly as before.

This recent news about the Bishops taking on the US government has promted me to start wondering about the separation of church and state.

In the news there is a lot of press about the Catholic Church trying to exert control over the US government. Thereby exerting control over non-Catholics. Personally I feel this violates freedom of religion.

The issue at hand is that the US government allows people to make their own choice about abortion. The Catholic Church is trying to get the government to repeal those rights because of their religious beliefs.

This clear cut case indicates to me that it is time to examine the tax exempt status of the Church. I feel if the Church wishes to reap the benefits of the government enforcing the laws they choose they should be willing to pay for that right as does any other who wishes to have that priviledge.
The Catholic Church is not trying to exert control over the US government, it is trying to rectify an horrible error. Pope Pius XII got beat up badly for supposedly not protecting the Jews and others placed in concentration camps for extermination during WWII. The numbers killed then were small compared to the number of babies being killed via abortion. During the civil rights movement, our Supreme Court basically ratified racism. When they had gotten a more appropriate conscience they then overturned it. This is no different. The Catholic Church is trying to point out that the taking of a life is never right - particularly when done out of a desire not to be inconvenienced by a child. It is exercising its right to freedom of speech as a non-profit organization so calling for the tax exemption to be pulled is simply to attempt to intimidate them into silence.

The good news is although individuals may be tempted into submission by threats of removing the tax status, the Church will never be silenced, even if the government does revoke the tax exempt status. Persecution always creates strength in the victim because it polarizes them into action. You may find out that by persecuting the Church in that fashion you will cause the fence sitters to move into action…
 
The Catholic Church is not trying to exert control over the US government
How can you even say that? As US bishops are publicly stating that they are making a concerted effort to pressure the incoming administration to pass laws that they favor you sit there and say they aren’t.
 
Singling out the Catholic church for stating their views on morality and revoking a status that is shared among non-profit groups is a form of persecution. Look at Canada where they have fined ministers for talking to their congregations about gays and calling it hate speech, while allowing other people to blatantly say “kill the Christians” without any repercussions. ezralevant.com/2008/10/ (Alberta HRC: Christians have no “human rights”)

Persecution starts somewhere, and threatening a church for speaking about moral issues is the start of a slippery slope. There are reasons our forefathers fought for free speech, because opposing points of views need to be heard, so when mistakes are made they can be rectified.

I find it interesting that I have yet to hear from someone who is pro-choice to stop for a minute and say to themselves, “Even if I don’t agree with them, what would I do if I believed children were being murdered?”. I would hope that your answer would be, “I would fight tooth and nail with everything I had to stop the murder of innocents.” That is what the churches are doing (not just Catholic). They are fighting as best they can to stop what they believe is the murder of children. What else could they do morally?

Don’t forget that throughout history Jews, blacks, Asians, Native Americans and basically any outsiders were considered sub-human and killed without remorse. Of course we abhor the actions of our ancestors and can’t believe that they could possibly believe that was okay. The view of history on this subject will be very different than what it is now. Our grandchildren or great-grandchildren will ask how we could stand by and let it happen.
 
Oops, I forgot to add this from the IRS website
irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

The following will jeopardize your tax status. The only one I can see that might be a close call is “they must not devote a substantial part of their activities to influence legislation” , but as far as “substantial”, it isn’t even close compared to all of the other things the Church does to benefit the poor, celebrate the mass, education…

All IRC section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches
and religious organizations, must abide by certain rules:

their net earnings may not inure to any private shareholder or individual,

they must not provide a substantial benefit to private interests,

they must not devote a substantial part of their activities to attempting to influence legislation,

they must not participate in, or intervene in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office, and

the organization’s purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.
 
I agree that singling out the Catholic church would be inappropriate. But as it stands the question is not one of singling out a specific group because of their beliefs. The government is not going to tax the Catholic Church because the Church teaches that abortion is wrong. The issue is not abortion. The issue is separation of Church and State.

The situation is that the Constitution calls for a separation of Church and State. Part of that is the fact that the US government waives taxation of churches so long as the churches waive their right to interfere in government.

If the Catholic Church believes that the issue of abortion is so important that they are willing to waive their right to not be taxed I can respect that decision.

But whether or not the Church is taxed is a choice entirely in control of the Church and decided by the actions the Church chooses to take.
 
In my neck of the woods…(California)…the church is being chastised by the No on 8 (marriage is between one man and one woman) people.

From what I could gather, the church cannot (and did not) endorse a candidate by name. However, it could (and the California Bishops did) lobby for a YES vote on Prop 8.

Now there’s a drive to file claims against our local parish church for posting a YES on 8 sign on their property. I am still not sure if it was okay to post this sign, who did it or even if it was done (I didn’t see it myself). It did not endorse a candidate.

On a blog attached to our local newspaper, activists were giving the link where Form 13909 (Tax-Exempt Organization Complaint form) could be downloaded to file against the church for what they say abusing its 501c3 status.
 
It seems like a clear cut case that people are asking for the revocation of the privileges given due to the separation of Church and State because the Church has chosen to breach that boundary.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top