Should the Church allow married Priests?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ChristopherMich
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
ByzCath:
No, just as you do not have any evidence to say he wasn’t.
Click to expand...
Just Church tradition, with a small t.
I just don’t agree with this. I do not believe there is an ideal as Christ picked Peter, a married man, and none of us know about the other apostles.
Click to expand...
From the earliest period the Church was personified and conceived of by her disciples as the Virgin Bride and as the pure Body of Christ, or again as the Virgin Mother (parthenos meter), and it was plainly fitting that this virgin Church should be served by a virgin priesthood. Among Jews and pagans the priesthood was hereditary. Its functions and powers were transmitted by natural generation. But in the Church of Christ, as an antithesis to this, the priestly character was imparted by the Holy Ghost in the Divinely-instituted Sacrament of Orders. Virginity is consequently the special prerogative of the Christian priesthood. Virginity and marriage both holy, but in different ways. The conviction that virginity possesses a higher sanctity and clearer spiritual intuitions, seems to be an instinct planted deep in the heart of man.

Celibacy of the Clergy

newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm
 
I agree with both fix and ByzCath that relaxing the discipline of celibacy is neither a cure for the sexual abuse crisis, nor is it a cure for a perceived shortage of priests.

I do believe however that it has certain valid points.
  1. the Church has a 2000 year history of having both a married and a celibate clergy.
  2. The Roman rite of the Catholic Church has a history of having some married clergy for at least 500, if not 800 years or more, and of recent times has a married clergy who have come into the priesthood as married, although not as lifetime members of the Roman rite.
  3. allowing married men to be ordained is not the “abolition” of celibacy, nor would I propose one. It is a return to the status of the early Church, which status has been carried on for 2000 years within the Church in the Eastern rites, was the status of the Church including the Roman rite for several hundred years from the start, and was only gradually surpressed over the next several hundred years.
  4. There seems to be an unspoken fear that we will be inundated with candidates shoule the rule be relaxed. Given that priest who were ordained and then left the active priesthood to get married would not be candidates by any reading of the Church’s history, I fail to see where these hoards of candidates would materialize from. What seems to be overlooked is that the spouse would have some significant (name removed by moderator)ut, and I would hazard a guess that a lot of men who might want to be ordained would have wives who would not want to have their husband ordained.
  5. there is a world of difference and almost everyone 'gets it", between someone doing something they have to do, and something they freely choose to do. I really think that we would not be lacking at all for candidates for the priesthood who would freely choose celibacy (we already have them), and the charism would stand out more clearly as the witness that it is. But not all have that charism, and we miss good priests because of the absolute rule. It would also provide role models we have few of - holy married priests.
  6. It would appear that the majority of priests are celibate in the Church, including in the Eastern rite, and I would expect the Roman rite to be no different. God has seen fit to call men to His priesthood who are married. For the life of me I can’t explain why one who has been a lifetime Catholic and is married should not be ordained, but one who recently converted should. And I have no problem with the recent convert being ordained.
 
It is quite difficult for someone to be in the professions and to be married at the same time. The professions take up almost all of one’s time. And the divorce rate is quite high. A number of clergyman have had to leave the ministry for the sake of their marriage.

It is bad when a physician or a lawyer gets divorced. It is a lot worse for a clergyman to get a divorce. A clergyman divorcing is a scandal which sets a bad example and contributes to the destruction of the institution of marriage.

Incidentally, Protestant churches do not have anyone who is the equivalent of a Catholic priest. A Protestant minister is the equivalent of a Catholic deacon.
 
In all reality folks, the Holy Spirit will guide the Catholic Church (Latin or Eastern) to do exactly what God intends Her to do - regardless of what our thoughts/opinions/intentions might be on the matter.

That really IS the bottom line - no if’s, and’s or but’s.

And rightly so.

Thank You God, for the Holy Spirit!
’ Else our personal “opinions” might destroy Your Church!

frank
 
40.png
Christian4life:
I was going to say yes but ya’ll have changed my mind.

Therefore,

Nope.
Click to expand...
I agree. My brother-in-law is a Nazarene minister with a wife and three kids, and he about runs himself to exhaustion trying to do everything. It’s not so much a financial matter as it is that there are only 24 hours in a day. And he only has one church, small at that.
 
If the Church discerns that ordaining married men offers a positive good that compliments the gift of celibacy, that is fine. Our traditions, however fruitful God has made them for us, should not close our ears to what God says today.

But the decision should not rest on finances, the opinions of the world, political pressures of any kind, current fashions in other churches, or the idea that God has insufficiently provided vocations to the priesthood.

We should be faithful to the positive good that God calls us to, and let success remain in His hands.

So… I’m content to leave this in the hands of the Holy Father and his brother shepherds. There are others who are perhaps called to raise this question, I’m not saying that there is any sin in that. All the same, I am not one of them.
 
40.png
BLB_Oregon:
If the Church discerns that ordaining married men offers a positive good that compliments the gift of celibacy, that is fine. Our traditions, however fruitful God has made them for us, should not close our ears to what God says today.

But the decision should not rest on finances, the opinions of the world, political pressures of any kind, current fashions in other churches, or the idea that God has insufficiently provided vocations to the priesthood.

We should be faithful to the positive good that God calls us to, and let success remain in His hands.

So… I’m content to leave this in the hands of the Holy Father and his brother shepherds. There are others who are perhaps called to raise this question, I’m not saying that there is any sin in that. All the same, I am not one of them.
Click to expand...
Man, you’re good!! Great post!
 
I think people find it normal for married men to be priests because they think marriage, for men, is just paying bills and getting pampered. They would never find it normal for a woman to be a priestess and have a husband and children! I don’t think it’s possible to be a good priest and a good husband and a good father. And what about confession? Would priests listen to the confessions of all the women in their comunity and then choose a wife who didn’t listen to their confessions? Would anybody find this normal the other way around, a woman listening to men’s confessions and choosing a husband? I can only accept married priests if they are a kind of “part-time priests”, who don’t hear confessions, for instance.
 
40.png
BLB_Oregon:
If the Church discerns that ordaining married men offers a positive good that compliments the gift of celibacy, that is fine. Our traditions, however fruitful God has made them for us, should not close our ears to what God says today.

But the decision should not rest on finances, the opinions of the world, political pressures of any kind, current fashions in other churches, or the idea that God has insufficiently provided vocations to the priesthood.

We should be faithful to the positive good that God calls us to, and let success remain in His hands.

So… I’m content to leave this in the hands of the Holy Father and his brother shepherds. There are others who are perhaps called to raise this question, I’m not saying that there is any sin in that. All the same, I am not one of them.
Click to expand...
If one wants to pose the argument that we need to increase the number of priests, I think finances can be used. Finances come down to an argument due to lack of resources. If one wants to make the changes for that reason, it is important to realize the increased resources it’ll take to make the change.

Though I think these are not good reasons at all. As you say I’m content with leaving this in the hands of the Holy Father and his brother shepherds.
 
40.png
feather:
I would like Priests to have the option of marrying. I think that those who would choose marriage would be suited for that and still be excellent Priests.

I think the effect would be that Priests would be less alone and lonely. Those who chose to not marry would like being alone and those who would choose marriage would thrive being married.
Click to expand...
My sentiments exactly. Thanks for posting. You said what I would have liked to say.
 
40.png
fix:
I am not saying married priests cannot be holy. I was speaking to those who think the abuse crisis would be solved by having married men become priests.

As for Peter. Do you have evidence he was still married when he was a priest or pope?

Yes, celibacy is the ideal.
Click to expand...
I am curious, are you a male? If so, why didn’t you become a priest?
 
40.png
snoopy:
I am curious, are you a male? If so, why didn’t you become a priest?
Click to expand...
I am male and I am married. I did not have a calling to the priesthood. How does that relate to the post you responded to?
 
40.png
fix:
I am male and I am married. I did not have a calling to the priesthood. How does that relate to the post you responded to?
Click to expand...
Just curious, that’s all. Sometimes I do wonder though, when some people just can’t understand why we have such a shortage of priests, I have to ask myself, why didn’t they themselves become priests. It seems so easy to tell someone else what to do with their lives, but if God didn’t call you, then it’s really none of anyone elses business. Maybe the ones that want to tell others what to do should become priests themselves. I didn’t mean to offend you if that’s what I did, but this subject has bugged me for a long time.
 
40.png
tigerlilly:
I think people find it normal for married men to be priests because they think marriage, for men, is just paying bills and getting pampered. They would never find it normal for a woman to be a priestess and have a husband and children! I don’t think it’s possible to be a good priest and a good husband and a good father. And what about confession? Would priests listen to the confessions of all the women in their comunity and then choose a wife who didn’t listen to their confessions? Would anybody find this normal the other way around, a woman listening to men’s confessions and choosing a husband? I can only accept married priests if they are a kind of “part-time priests”, who don’t hear confessions, for instance.
Click to expand...
Obviously you have had no exposure to the married priests in the Roman rite, nor any in the Eastern rites. They all seem to do quite well.
 
40.png
otm:
Obviously you have had no exposure to the married priests in the Roman rite, nor any in the Eastern rites. They all seem to do quite well.
Click to expand...
Notice one thing: you say they are well, not their children or their wives… I kown a protestant priest who is quite well and his wife is exausted, because a lot of the work of the church falls on her shoulders. Is that the christian thing to do? “Marry me, dear, and do half my work!”
 
40.png
snoopy:
Just curious, that’s all. Sometimes I do wonder though, when some people just can’t understand why we have such a shortage of priests, I have to ask myself, why didn’t they themselves become priests. It seems so easy to tell someone else what to do with their lives, but if God didn’t call you, then it’s really none of anyone elses business. Maybe the ones that want to tell others what to do should become priests themselves. I didn’t mean to offend you if that’s what I did, but this subject has bugged me for a long time.
Click to expand...
I think we get the number and quality of priests we deserve. IMO, if we want more priests we should reform out lives. I am not offended in the least. The Church says celibacy is the discipline in the Latin rite, we few exceptions. What I find curious is that so many who want a married priesthood seem to disregard the fact that the vocation to married lfe is in a shambles in our society. More men will answer the call when we married people started living out our faith as we should. It is not about getting more men to answer the call by changing the standard. Just allowing married men to be ordained will not solve the crisis in the Church.
 
40.png
tigerlilly:
40.png
otm:
Obviously you have had no exposure to the married priests in the Roman rite, nor any in the Eastern rites. They all seem to do quite well.
Click to expand...
Notice one thing: you say they are well, not their children or their wives… I kown a protestant priest who is quite well and his wife is exausted, because a lot of the work of the church falls on her shoulders. Is that the christian thing to do? “Marry me, dear, and do half my work!”
Click to expand...
I know a couple of married priests (Catholic) and their whole families are doing very well.
 
40.png
tigerlilly:
Notice one thing: you say they are well, not their children or their wives… I kown a protestant priest who is quite well and his wife is exausted, because a lot of the work of the church falls on her shoulders. Is that the christian thing to do? “Marry me, dear, and do half my work!”
Click to expand...
Their children and their wives oftentimes do extremely well. Go to an Eastern Catholic Church or an Anglican Use Parish and see for yourself. It’s inappropriate for a Latin Catholic to assume that their families “suffer” because of the priesthood.
 
My work over the years has brought me into frequent contact and intimate relationships with Protestant ministers. I cannot tell you, and I quote literally, how many have told me, “John, I envy your celibate life. I love my wife and my children, but I often find it literally impossible to be what my people want me to be and my family, to give them the time and attention they deserve.”

But we are not finished yet. It would be strange if it were possible that God would not correspondingly bless the celibacy of His priests by showering them with an abundance of His graces for the sacrifices that, as every priest knows, celibacy costs. What Pope Pius XII wrote to priests on this aspect of their celibate life deserves to be remembered whenever anyone tries to talk down the sublimity of this Christ-like institution. “By His law of celibacy,” says the Pope, “the priest so far from losing the gift and duties of fatherhood, rather increases them immeasurably. For although he does not beget progeny for this passing life on earth, he begets children for that life which is heavenly and eternal.” Unquote the Sovereign Pontiff.

Every man, I speak as one, wants to be a father. The option he has is what kind of fatherhood he will experience. This is the capstone, as only priests who are faithful to their celibacy know, their celibacy is a true fatherhood as that of a woman dedicated to a life in a religious community is a genuine motherhood. And let no one steal that mystery from our faith. The priest is emphatically not a pious bachelor. He is wedded to the Savior’s work in this world. And celibacy is the obvious, and if only people would believe it, congenial, happy, enjoyable expression of the priest’s relationship to God and man.

Father John A. Hardon

therealpresence.org/archives/Priesthood/Priesthood_010.htm
 
And? What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

I really find this part offensive, “* It would be strange if it were possible that God would not correspondingly bless the celibacy of His priests by showering them with an abundance of His graces for the sacrifices that, as every priest knows, celibacy costs.*”

As if God would not bless the marriage of His priests with an abundance of His grace just becuase they are not celibate.

It is not an either or proposition and those that wish to make is such are mistaken.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top