Should the Church allow married Priests?

[kev7]

ByzCath:

This statement of yours is where my argument lies.

There is no way to prove this statement as true.

It is also very offensive to all those married priests out there and to the rest of the Church that has the ancient tradition of ordaining married men to the priesthood.

And as for your slam agsinst me in the first sentance, how christian and charitable of you.

Hey, you are the one that slammed me with the notion that I’m living in a fantasy world. I simply stated my arguments and tried to show you that your initial statement wasn’t very Christian either.

As for you being offended, I never once said that it is wrong for some priests to be married. What I said was that a priest should not be allowed to get married. There are many cultures in the world that it would not mix well with.

North American culture is the best example. The divorce rate is insane and many people here are far too focused on their own selfish desires. A married priest in North American culture would be the target of the wicked. He would be manipulated and used as a tool to attack the purity of the Church.

The eastern faith is backed by a culture that protects its priests from such problems.

I guess you are asking me, “What is truth?” no… you can’t use the wisdom of this world to prove the truth of Christ.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

kev7:

Hey, you are the one that slammed me with the notion that I’m living in a fantasy world. I simply stated my arguments and tried to show you that your initial statement wasn’t very Christian either.

You are right and I apologize.

As for you being offended, I never once said that it is wrong for some priests to be married. What I said was that a priest should not be allowed to get married. There are many cultures in the world that it would not mix well with.

Priests are never allowed to get married and this is not what the question before the Church today is.

The question is should the Church ordain married men, as the Eastern Churches have done since the beginning of the Church.

North American culture is the best example. The divorce rate is insane and many people here are far too focused on their own selfish desires. A married priest in North American culture would be the target of the wicked. He would be manipulated and used as a tool to attack the purity of the Church.

We already have married priests in North America. The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and the Melkite Catholic Church have been ordaining married men for years now and soon the Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic Church will do so. The Latin (or Roman) Catholic Church has also been granted dispensations form the Holy Father to ordain converted married “clergy” to the priesthood.

So it does happen and it will happen.

The eastern faith is backed by a culture that protects its priests from such problems.

I guess you are asking me, “What is truth?” no… you can’t use the wisdom of this world to prove the truth of Christ.

And you have yet to prove this as the “truth of Christ”. It can not be the “truth of Christ” as it is not universal in the Church. There is no one truth for the Western Church and other truth for the Eastern Church. There is only the Truth.

What is offensive in your statments is that somehow a married priest does not follow God as a celibate priest does, that is just nonsense.

 

[fix]

ByzCath:

The question is should the Church ordain married men, as the Eastern Churches have done since the beginning of the Church.

See, I think there is conflicting evidence. Some say it was a concession around the 7 century that allowed this.

Also, why can only celibates become bishops?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

fix:

See, I think there is conflicting evidence. Some say it was a concession around the 7 century that allowed this.

Also, why can only celibates become bishops?

In the beginning married me could be bishops, the Church changed this.

It was not until after Seventh Century that clerical celibacy was mandated in the Western Church.

Council in Trullo, 692 AD

CANON VI.
SINCE it is declared in the apostolic canons that of those who
are advanced to the clergy unmarried, only lectors and cantors are able to marry; we also, maintaining this, determine that henceforth
it is in nowise lawful for any subdeacon, deacon or presbyter after
his ordination to contract matrimony but if he shall have dared to
do so, let him be deposed. And if any of those who enter the clergy, wishes to be joined to a wife in lawful marriage before he is ordained subdeacon, deacon, or presbyter, let it be done.

NOTES.
ANCIENT EPITOME OF CANON VI.
If any ordained person contracts matrimony, let him be deposed.
If he wishes to be married he should become so before his ordination.

This was a general council of the West and you can see it allows for married men to be ordained. Maybe this is where your conflicting evidence comes from as the Eastern Church always allowed married men to be ordained.

Episcopal celibacy was established for the Western Church at the same council, for the Eastern Church episcopal celibacy was established by Emperor Justinian’s (527-65) Code of Civil Law which forbade anyone who had children or even nephews to be consecrated a bishop.

 

[fix]

ByzCath:

In the beginning married me could be bishops, the Church changed this.

It was not until after Seventh Century that clerical celibacy was mandated in the Western Church.

Council in Trullo, 692 AD

CANON VI.
SINCE it is declared in the apostolic canons that of those who
are advanced to the clergy unmarried, only lectors and cantors are able to marry; we also, maintaining this, determine that henceforth
it is in nowise lawful for any subdeacon, deacon or presbyter after
his ordination to contract matrimony but if he shall have dared to
do so, let him be deposed. And if any of those who enter the clergy, wishes to be joined to a wife in lawful marriage before he is ordained subdeacon, deacon, or presbyter, let it be done.

NOTES.
ANCIENT EPITOME OF CANON VI.
If any ordained person contracts matrimony, let him be deposed.
If he wishes to be married he should become so before his ordination.

This was a general council of the West and you can see it allows for married men to be ordained. Maybe this is where your conflicting evidence comes from as the Eastern Church always allowed married men to be ordained.

Episcopal celibacy was established for the Western Church at the same council, for the Eastern Church episcopal celibacy was established by Emperor Justinian’s (527-65) Code of Civil Law which forbade anyone who had children or even nephews to be consecrated a bishop.

Does any of that prove that most, or large numbers of, men were married and priests before the rules were introduce?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

fix:

Does any of that prove that most, or large numbers of, men were married and priests before the rules were introduce?

Within the Byzantine/Orthodox Churches the married secular priesthood was the norm, that is the tradition.

That is our tradition and it has been acknowledged by Pope John Paul II. I do not feel the need to defend this.

 

[Julian_Peters]

Thank you to all those who have participated in this discussion. This thread is now closed.