Should the Church change the no meat on Friday rule?

  • Thread starter Thread starter iwannabesomeone
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I know this is an old thread, but I couldn’t find one similar that was newer.

Let me preface by saying that I am a cradle Catholic, and fell away from the church for 20+ years. About a year ago, I made my way back, and I want to be a GOOD Catholic. I want to understand why we do what we do.

This brings me to this passage in the bible: 1 Timothy 4:1-3 says, “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.”

To me that sounds a lot like no man should make anyone abstain from anything (meat in this regard). I abstain from meat during lent on Ash Wednesdays and all the Fridays because I’m scared of going to hell if I don’t. But could someone here who is more knowledgeable than me please explain how that passage from 1 Timothy can be ignored?

Thank you in advance,
Michelle
 
Let’s get this straight - for seven days out of the whole year the Church tells us not to eat meat and you’re equating this with CELIBACY (a PERMANENT no-marriage rule - not like you can somehow abstain from marriage seven days of the year!)

Paul would seem to be referring to permanent abstaining from meat, not just a few days.

Our Lord commanded us to fast like He commanded us to worship on Sundays - the Church would be remiss in its duty to guide our souls if it didn’t make SOME fasting or some form of worship mandatory, otherwise most of us would never do it.
 
I’m not equating it with anything, that is why I asked the question-- because I wanted to know. Like I said, I am just recently coming back to the Catholic faith so forgive me for asking what you seem to think was an offensive question. It truly was asked for the only reason of desiring to know more about my faith.
 
MikiBee said:
I’m not equating it with anything, that is why I asked the question-- because I wanted to know. Like I said, I am just recently coming back to the Catholic faith so forgive me for asking what you seem to think was an offensive question. It truly was asked for the only reason of desiring to know more about my faith.
Click to expand...
:hug3: My apologies for coming across too harsh.

As I’ve said, abstaining from meat is one of many areas where the Church imposes some mandatory rules for our benefit. We are not commanded to abstain from meat totally, as Paul seems to have envisioned it in the quote you gave.
 
MikiBee said:
I know this is an old thread, but I couldn’t find one similar that was newer.

Let me preface by saying that I am a cradle Catholic, and fell away from the church for 20+ years. About a year ago, I made my way back, and I want to be a GOOD Catholic. I want to understand why we do what we do.

This brings me to this passage in the bible: 1 Timothy 4:1-3 says, “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.”

To me that sounds a lot like no man should make anyone abstain from anything (meat in this regard). I abstain from meat during lent on Ash Wednesdays and all the Fridays because I’m scared of going to hell if I don’t. But could someone here who is more knowledgeable than me please explain how that passage from 1 Timothy can be ignored?

Thank you in advance,
Michelle
Click to expand...
God bless you, Michelle 🙂 :). You’re asking good questions, and I’m so glad for you, that your heart is leading you deeper into union with Christ in His Church!

Regarding the passage you brought up, there are several things I feel would be good to bring up. First off, the Catholic Church doesn’t command people to abstain from meat always, but only on specific days. It has nothing against meat. The Church’s rule has nothing to do with meat being bad, but has everything to do with Jesus’ Passion being great, SO great that it should be celebrated every Friday of the year by a fast. In the US, it doesn’t have to be fasting from meat on every Friday of the year, but only during Lent- on other Fridays, we can pick what we fast, so long as it’s comparably significant to us. The people Paul was criticizing in the passage you brought up were probably Gnostics, enemies of the flesh, which they considered entirely evil. Many of them were enemies of all manner of behaviors in the flesh; the New Testament includes many condemnations of them. The Church has no enmity toward our bodies, but it does feel we should keep them in check, so that our desires do not control us.

The passage you brought up should not be ignored. Paul was railing against a condemning attitude toward the body that abuses it as though it is evil. We should heed that passage and learn from it that we should treat the body and that which God gives it with due honor, respect and care. That is NOT, however, license to disobey the Church of God! St. Paul would never have said so.

Here are some important points to consider.

Jesus Christ predicted that His Church would fast (Matthew 6:16-17), and He also commanded the Church, through the apostles, to obey the leaders of the Church (Hebrews 13:7, 13:17, etc.). Thus fasting is entirely within Jesus’ wish. As Scripture tells us that authority is given to His hierarchy on Earth, they can choose that certain days be days of fasting. They do not contradict Scripture by saying that satisfying the flesh by eating meat is always evil (as those Paul contradicted were likely arguing), but they say eating meat is normally perfectly good. However, they do, in the function of authorities that Jesus handed down to them, prescribe certain days of fasting, just as the Old Testament did for the “Day of Atonement,” a required fast throughout Israel (Lev. 16:29-31, 23:26-32, Num. 29:7). Israel was a type of the Church, what Paul calls the “New Israel,” and it had days of fasts just as the Kingdom of Jesus does.

These fasts are not condemnations of either meat or marriage, both of which the Church views as great, but both of which the people Paul was arguing with did not. Jesus said fasting would happen, it is in the character of God as the Old Testament shows to establish certain fasting days, and Jesus established authorities in the Church who have the right to establish such days in our practice.

Fasting on Fridays is a great way to honor the Passion of Christ. It is a rich blessing that can and ideally will turn the soul toward its Redeemer every week, just as the Church seasons turn our hearts toward different aspects of Christ every season. Each Mass is structured to show the entirety of the salvation story, starting with Old Testament readings (revealing the Old Covenant), moving on to New Testament readings (New Covenant) and concluding with the Mystery of the Eucharist, the Death and Resurrection of Jesus in which we all live! The Church has done what it can to structure the whole year, on a small scale and on a big scale, to be framed around the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ for Catholics everywhere . . . what a blessing to have time so gloriously used! We are richly blessed.
 
Thank you both for your answers. I am so glad to have found this site, because I am so full of questions! Not questions I mean to be argumentative, just things that have been gnawing at me for awhile and of which I haven’t found answers elsewhere.

Unfortunately in my searching for God, I came across some websites meant to ruin faith (specifically godisimaginary.com). I wish I never stumbled on that site-- as it does nothing but try to prove that God does not exist-- and boy do they have some convincing arguents. But I know that is the devil’s handiwork, and am trying to arm myself with knowledge to dispel any doubts and to enrich my faith.

Thank you again so much for your replies-- they really did answer my question. 🙂
 
To counter the kind of garbage you find on those websites, I recommend getting some great apologetics books. There are some really good ones out there that will confirm your faith. “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel is very compelling. I’ve used it in debates for years and no one has ever had very useful answers for its points. Also look up the lives of the saints, including recent ones, and you’ll find a lot of impressive miracles that are hard to explain.

The easiest thing of all to do is google Our Lady of Zeitoun or Our Lady of Fatima. You’ll find LOTS of evidence supporting these apparitions of Our Lady that are so powerful that NO ONE has been able to argue against them without looking stupid. Our Lady of Zeitoun was seen by millions of people including President Nasser of Egypt and was video taped and filmed by the international press. Our Lady of Fatima performed miraculous signs that were seen by tens of thousands of people- I think about 70,000 people, including lots of skeptics and non-believers. The signs were so impressive that they were published in all the secular papers.

There are lots of good Catholic apologetics books available online. Google them, and arm yourself for battle! If you do, you’ll rejoice to find your faith greatly strengthened, and you’ll find yourself able to see exactly why the lies of the Devil are lies, rather than having to take it on faith. Indeed, do google the Catholic apologetics books. You’ll find it very strengthening. There are LOADS of lies out there attacking Catholicism- indeed, there are far more such attacks on Catholicism than on any other form of Christianity, partly because we’re the biggest and oldest Church, and partly because the Devil most hates Christ’s Church.
 
elvisman said:
I think you meant that Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are the only days that we are required to fast. Abstaining from meat is every Friday during Lent.
**Incidentally, I agree **with your lobster and prawns analogy.👍
Click to expand...
No. He did mean only Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Canon Law says abstention is binding on all Fridays, not just Fridays of Lent but that the local bishops have the authority to modify the observances. In the US, the USCCB declared that you are required to abstain on every Friday in Lent as well as fasting and abstention on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. In Australia, the ACBC declared that Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are the only days we are required to abstain from meat, or fast. On all other Fridays, including Fridays of Lent, we are not required to abstain from meat although we are encouraged to do so. We have this in writing from our Archbishop. We have fewer Holy Days of Obligation, too.

So, the ‘No Meat on Friday Rule’ is actually different, depending on where you live.
 
I would hope the Church authorities would consider reinforcing greater fasting and discipline during Lent in the future. Too little discipline makes it harder to keep because it becomes less of a habit and too similar to everyday life and so simpler to do without, especially without edifying examples from the neighbors.

I pray that a time will come when Lent is stricter and sterner about these matters, and rather than giving the faithful an ‘anything you want’ alternative to the various penances, there are at worst one or two explicit alternatives to suit those folks for whom the standard penances are not suitable.
 
MikiBee said:
I will definitely check those sources out Lief. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Here’s a good starting link for Our Lady of Zeitoun. There are some lovely pictures of the apparitions on this page, though the contrast between light and dark messes some with the photography.

Here’s a neat article about Pope Pius XII’s eyewitness viewing of Our Lady’s miracle of the sun from the Vatican Gardens, around the time he was about to publicly announce the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.
zenit.org/article-24149?l=english
And this wikipedia article has a pretty good description of the sun miracle at Fatima.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miracle_of_the_Sun

There are, of course, lots of skeptical, disgusting and in many ways ridiculous arguments circulating the internet, trying to write these kinds of incidents off as “mass hysteria,” or “mass hallucination.” Their evidence is that not everyone saw anything, or not everyone saw the same thing- though when it’s a spiritual phenomenon, it’s not surprising that different people would have different levels of openness to God’s work. Spiritual phenomenon don’t behave in the same way as natural phenomenon. In any case, taking a look at these stories might brighten your day. I read tonight quite a bit from the skeptical articles about Fatima online, and they were really ridiculous. And in a hideously awful way. The way people blind themselves to what literally, in the cases of Fatima and Zeitoun, shines down from Heaven. And then they attack it, condescendingly and often bombastically. It’s disgusting, but anyway, they do do it, as they do with everything provided as an evidence for Catholicism. That, of course, is only to be expected.

Here’s another good piece including highlights about Fatima:
fatima.org/whyfatima.htm

And here’s one that might excite you, regarding the evidence concerning the image of Our Lady of Guadaloupe:
restoredtraditions.com/our_lady_guadalupe_catholic_art_print.aspx

And there are lots of marvelous Eucharistic miracles. Here’s some information about one:
miraclerosarymission.org/lanciano.html
therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

These will be some fun online reading for you, as you wait to get “The Case for Christ” or some of the apologetics books. One book I’d like to get is called “The Incorruptibles,” which I’ve heard presents a lot of amazing evidence concerning the Catholic saints whose bodies have survived almost intact, without decomposing, after death.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top