Should the Confirmation age be lowered?

[EasterJoy]

I believe you are making this too complicated. Number one, confirmation should be administered between the A of R, 7 and 16 in the US. Age of reason simply means when a typical child is capable of understanding he needs to attend Mass and receive communion at least once a year and reconciliation the same. Now many other issues require more reasoning ability on the child’s part, i.e. abstinence is not required to be binding until age 14 c. 1252; 16 to be subject to sanctions c. 1323.1; 18 for fasting c. 1252. Likewise various canonical rights of the law are acquired at different ages, thus the age of discretion. In some rights and privileges the two are the same, in others there is a difference.

In some things the age of reason is the same as age of discretion; in other things it is not equal, as in matrimony. Age of discretion for confirmation from everything I have found is very wide and the local ordinary has the rights by canon law to call the age of discretion at 7, which is the age of reason, or higher if the conference of bishops decides another age over this or there is danger of death. (C. 891) Also a thought, one child may reach the age of discretion for confirmation at 8, another at 16; not all are on the same level of faith and understanding.

This thread is dedicated to the age of readiness for confirmation and it has been a good discussion. In my opinion it should be restored to its original placement, at the age of reason before the reception of the Eucharist.

I would love to sit down with my bishop and ask why we have the sacrament at the junior year in high school and not younger, but I know my bishop very well and when he makes a decision it’s a done deal; then he would make a joke about me telling Bishop what to do in reference to the occasions when I serve as MC at diocesan Masses and get to tell him what to do in Mass and he has to listen. He likes teasing me about that.

Hope this helps a little on understanding the terms.

Hmmm…remember the Lord’s story of the persistent widow. Don’t just talk to the bishop…ask God, too!

It seems to me that part of the issue is the social dramas that come up in situations where what is seen as a “rite of passage” is something that comes with actual demonstrated readiness, instead of being practically automatic at a particular age. Different people are ready to complete the sacraments of initiation at different chronological ages, yet for social reasons the vast majority of the flock is marched through with their chronological peers. There are trade-offs with that, too.

The more I think about it, the more I think it would be better to have confirmation as near the time of First Holy Communion as possible. I have tried to play the bishop’s advocate and thought through all the reasons the bishops might have for delaying, and I don’t think they make practical sense in terms of what the sacrament is meant to do.

 

[tafan]

Ok. The Diocesan Bishops have the authority to set the age of Confirmation between 7-16. Our Diocese is on the older end…16. It works extremely well. We have great enrollment in the RE programs Kindergarten all the way through Confirmation 11 Grade.

I do not foresee any change taking place with a set up that works as well as it does. In the Diocese of Buffalo.

I do agree that with the older age, there has become a misunderstanding on what the Sacrament of Confirmation truly conveys. Again, this goes right back to poor Catechesis.
I wish that all Catholic parents were well catechized and took great interest in leading the Domestic Church like they are called to do. Unfortunately they do not catechize their children at home and then the Diocese’ are forced to take drastic measures to ensure the children are well formed in the faith. This brings forth the unfortunate choice of delaying Sacraments.

This really has been a great thread…Very informative.

And you actually attribute the great enrollment in RE programs from kindergarten through the 11th grade to denying the following graces to the children?

…Confirmation brings an increase and deepening of baptismal grace

• it roots us more deeply in the divine filiation which makes us cry, “Abba! Father!”;115
• it unites us more firmly to Christ;
• it increases the gifts of the Holy Spirit in us;
• it renders our bond with the Church more perfect;116
• it gives us a special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith by word and action as true witnesses of Christ, to confess the name of Christ boldly, and never to be ashamed of the Cross:

I don’t understand how. Hear me out, please: I read your diocesan document on confirmation requirements and all that is required is a two year preparation period in high school. No where does it require RE attendance from the 3rd to the 9th grades. Yet you have great enrollment in those grades. Perhaps your diocese is doing something very right. But the link to a late age in confirmation is very tenuous.

Our diocese can make that case (and does) in that parents never send ther kids back to faith formation until the 7th grade for a 2 year prep program. But your diocese does not suffer from this problem, so why the late age for confirmation?

 

[Lapey]

Hmmm…remember the Lord’s story of the persistent widow. Don’t just talk to the bishop…ask God, too!

It seems to me that part of the issue is the social dramas that come up in situations where what is seen as a “rite of passage” is something that comes with actual demonstrated readiness, instead of being practically automatic at a particular age. Different people are ready to complete the sacraments of initiation at different chronological ages, yet for social reasons the vast majority of the flock is marched through with their chronological peers. There are trade-offs with that, too.

The more I think about it, the more I think it would be better to have confirmation as near the time of First Holy Communion as possible. I have tried to play the bishop’s advocate and thought through all the reasons the bishops might have for delaying, and I don’t think they make practical sense in terms of what the sacrament is meant to do.

Oh don’t worry, I have prayed and still pray for the change. We will have a new bishop by the end of the year, as our current bishop is retiring. So hopefully with a new bishop we can see change.

For those who like the older age and think its “working well”. Where is the scripture or sacred tradition to back up what you say is good. There is nothing to back up the thought that older is good or right, only a misunderstanding of the theology of the sacrament.

Does the sacrament confer supernatural grace and infuse recipients with the fullness of the Spirit’s gifts, or is this a method of keeping people in CCD for the sake of the program? We have some soul searching to do to rectify these discrepancies in this deacon’s opinion.

I used to tow the bishop’s line as well, I now see number of young people who drop out as they see no point until they are asked to be a God parent. I would say, even though our confirmation class is full, we only retain a third of the entire group of juniors through confirmation. In other words, two thirds of the confirmation age kids with their families registered at our parish, dropped out of CCD soon after first communion.

Does our program work well for the ones that are there? It sure does, I would put our program against any other in the area. But you cannot help those who are not present. I would challenge everyone else to call your rectory staff and ask these questions, how many registered in this age group and how many of those are in CCD. I bet you will be surprised how poorly we are doing.

 

[lclark8307]

I feel Confirmation should happen with First Communion. My son struggled with me over Confirmation at 16. He felt it was wrong for me to force my faith on him. I feel it is my responsibility as his parents to raise him in the faith and explained this to him. Teenagers are dealing with so much. I feel the Gifts of the Holy Spirit would be beneficial before confronting the teen years.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

And you actually attribute the great enrollment in RE programs from kindergarten through the 11th grade to denying the following graces to the children?

I don’t understand how. Hear me out, please: I read your diocesan document on confirmation requirements and all that is required is a two year preparation period in high school. No where does it require RE attendance from the 3rd to the 9th grades. Yet you have great enrollment in those grades. Perhaps your diocese is doing something very right. But the link to a late age in confirmation is very tenuous.

Our diocese can make that case (and does) in that parents never send ther kids back to faith formation until the 7th grade for a 2 year prep program. But your diocese does not suffer from this problem, so why the late age for confirmation?

Because we find it effective. As I have pointed out previously, there have been times when many parents have asked for early Confirmation only to free themselves or their children of attending further catecheis. This does not make a strong Catholic. The teenage years are vital in forming a path for the kids to realize that they too are called to put God first in their lives even though their poorly catechized parents do not.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

Oh don’t worry, I have prayed and still pray for the change. We will have a new bishop by the end of the year, as our current bishop is retiring. So hopefully with a new bishop we can see change.

For those who like the older age and think its “working well”. Where is the scripture or sacred tradition to back up what you say is good. There is nothing to back up the thought that older is good or right, only a misunderstanding of the theology of the sacrament.

Does the sacrament confer supernatural grace and infuse recipients with the fullness of the Spirit’s gifts, or is this a method of keeping people in CCD for the sake of the program? We have some soul searching to do to rectify these discrepancies in this deacon’s opinion.

I used to tow the bishop’s line as well, I now see number of young people who drop out as they see no point until they are asked to be a God parent. I would say, even though our confirmation class is full, we only retain a third of the entire group of juniors through confirmation. In other words, two thirds of the confirmation age kids with their families registered at our parish, dropped out of CCD soon after first communion.

Does our program work well for the ones that are there? It sure does, I would put our program against any other in the area. But you cannot help those who are not present. I would challenge everyone else to call your rectory staff and ask these questions, how many registered in this age group and how many of those are in CCD. I bet you will be surprised how poorly we are doing.

So you are basing your argument on the fact that because teenagers have grown up in families with parents that are so poorly catechized and have done a terrible job of teaching their children that there is value to the Catholic faith outside the Mass they should just be given the Sacrament at an early age and then forgotten.

The Bishops have been given the authority to determine the actual age of discretion out of the range of 7-16 years. The bishops are working with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Who are we to act in disobedience to the Bishop in determining the age? Being Catholic is also a call to obedience. Many forget that

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

I feel Confirmation should happen with First Communion. My son struggled with me over Confirmation at 16. He felt it was wrong for me to force my faith on him. I feel it is my responsibility as his parents to raise him in the faith and explained this to him. Teenagers are dealing with so much. I feel the Gifts of the Holy Spirit would be beneficial before confronting the teen years.

I commend you on taking the responsibility of raising your child and teaching him the faith. I find it interesting though that you and so many others think that the Holy Spirit is not active in the daily lives of your children just because they have not received the Sacrament of Confirmation. Yes, teenagers are being torn apart by the secular world today. This is the exact reason they need to be well grounded and continue their catechesis so they can learn why the Church teaches what it does and the benefits received by putting God first in their lives.

 

[Lapey]

So you are basing your argument on the fact that because teenagers have grown up in families with parents that are so poorly catechized and have done a terrible job of teaching their children that there is value to the Catholic faith outside the Mass they should just be given the Sacrament at an early age and then forgotten.

The Bishops have been given the authority to determine the actual age of discretion out of the range of 7-16 years. The bishops are working with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Who are we to act in disobedience to the Bishop in determining the age? Being Catholic is also a call to obedience. Many forget that

No, and don’t you try to twist my words. What I am saying is the fact that the sacrament means much more than keeping them in a classroom; which I assure you, even in your great program you are missing the majority of the kids of your parish. Call your rectory and ask for the numbers, you will see.

Secondly, if they were confirmed before first communion, the same committed parents would send the same committed kid to CCD.

 

[Lapey]

Because we find it effective. As I have pointed out previously, there have been times when many parents have asked for early Confirmation only to free themselves or their children of attending further catecheis. This does not make a strong Catholic. The teenage years are vital in forming a path for the kids to realize that they too are called to put God first in their lives even though their poorly catechized parents do not.

It is the parents right by canon law to ask for early confirmation, not even the bishop can delay the sacrament if the child is ready. Canon law puts that responsibility directly on the back of the parents, not you. The sacrament is not about you catechizing kids, its about the kids receiving the grace needed to survive and prosper as a Catholic in the world.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

No, and don’t you try to twist my words. What I am saying is the fact that the sacrament means much more than keeping them in a classroom; which I assure you, even in your great program you are missing the majority of the kids of your parish. Call your rectory and ask for the numbers, you will see.

Secondly, if they were confirmed before first communion, the same committed parents would send the same committed kid to CCD.

I know the numbers as I am tied to the program and we are missing few. Those that we are missing have enrolled in the neighboring diocese to get the Sacrament in 8th grade so they can have their Sunday’s free for secular activities. By doing this they must leave our parish and enroll in the neighboring parish.

I twisted no words…Just took off the sugar coating.

You have touched though on a good point…Committed Parents. If the parents were truly committed and value living their Catholic faith, there wouldn’t be an issue. They are not.

 

[tafan]

I find it interesting though that you and so many others think that the Holy Spirit is not active in the daily lives of your children just because they have not received the Sacrament of Confirmation. .

This is the second time that you have completely misrepresented our views (the first being when you claimed to understand our motivation by wanting time for sports and other activities besides RE). The above statement is a logical conclusion to one of your first posts on this thread: that confirmation should be a “sending off point, the fruition of childhood catechesis”. But it has been shown to be conclusively wrong. The Catechism states very precisely the types of graces that are bestowed due to the sacrament. You logic is flawed

At least you admit to the later date leading to a “misunderstanding on what the Sacrament of Confirmation truly conveys”. Apparently, in the Diocese of Buffalo, with their very extreme policy, that misunderstanding is even shared by the RE teachers.

Why do you even consider it a drastic action by the Bishop?

 

[babochka]

I know the numbers as I am tied to the program and we are missing few. Those that we are missing have enrolled in the neighboring diocese to get the Sacrament in 8th grade so they can have their Sunday’s free for secular activities. By doing this they must leave our parish and enroll in the neighboring parish.

I twisted no words…Just took off the sugar coating.

You have touched though on a good point…Committed Parents. If the parents were truly committed and value living their Catholic faith, there wouldn’t be an issue. They are not.

I’m not doubting your numbers and I think they are truly impressive. Your diocese is clearly doing something right. I wonder, though… if these kids are staying in religious education throughout the program, as opposed to dropping out in 3rd grade and returning for high school, then it seems that you already have committed parents. Don’t you think, with a little catechesis, that these parents would continue to participate in the program even if your diocese had an earlier confirmation?

 

[babochka]

I commend you on taking the responsibility of raising your child and teaching him the faith. I find it interesting though that you and so many others think that the Holy Spirit is not active in the daily lives of your children just because they have not received the Sacrament of Confirmation. Yes, teenagers are being torn apart by the secular world today. This is the exact reason they need to be well grounded and continue their catechesis so they can learn why the Church teaches what it does and the benefits received by putting God first in their lives.

I think it is a leap to say that people think that the Holy Spirit is not active in the lives of children who have not been confirmed. But, if we believe in the sacramental reality of Confirmation, we must acknowledge that something is lacking until the sacrament has been received.

 

[canis73]

I had my first communion when I was 9 and was confirmed when I was 12. Always thought I was a bit young to fully understand and appreciate what confirmation was about. Think 16 -18 would be better.

 

[babochka]

The Bishops have been given the authority to determine the actual age of discretion out of the range of 7-16 years. The bishops are working with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Who are we to act in disobedience to the Bishop in determining the age? Being Catholic is also a call to obedience. Many forget that

No, the bishops have the right to confirm at any time between the actual age of discretion and 16 years of age. They are not deciding that the age of discretion is something other than 7 years, they are simply deciding not to confirm at the age of discretion and to confirm at a later time.

I don’t think anybody is being disobedient. The past few Popes have urged the Bishops in each area to have this discussion, and many Bishops are responding. The laity have the right and responsibility to be a part of this discussion. I would say that those in your diocese who go to a different diocese for Confirmation are being disobedient to their own bishop and I’m surprised it is allowed. Then again, it is done at least with his tacit permission, as they are under his jurisdiction, so I guess there isn’t any disobedience there, either.

 

[babochka]

I had my first communion when I was 9 and was confirmed when I was 12. Always thought I was a bit young to fully understand and appreciate what confirmation was about. Think 16 -18 would be better.

Do you think that, at 9, you were a bit young to fully understand and appreciate what Holy Communion is about? Or at your Baptism, were you a bit young to fully appreciate and understand what it is about? What’s the difference? Or were you taught, as so many have been, that Confirmation is about making an adult commitment to your faith and the Church? If that were true, then of course 12 is a bit young. But since that is not what Confirmation is, what is the difference between Baptism and Confirmation, as far as the recipient’s understanding?

 

[MorEphrem]

Chrismation anyone? Quite frankly I think it would be proper if the Latin Church started to move away from this silly notion of waiting to attain some kind of “Age of Reason” (whatever that means); I might be slow but I’m 20 and I still can’t say I understand what I received at Chrismation or what I receive every time I’m communed and when I’m ordained (God willing) I especially won’t understand that. There is a reason why they are called Holy Mysteries (or Sacraments; etymologically they’re almost the same derived from sacrare but ultimately from the word for mystery).

It was a pastoral decision to place confirmation at the age it is now in the Latin Church; however, it doesn’t support sustained worshippers, rather people who just come back for 6 months for classes and then go to some mess of a ceremony where people are texting, chewing gum and talking with no reverence for the Holy Mysteries before them.

Anyway, to once again reiteration the point that sums up my post: comprehension isn’t exactly attainable for a Mystery; therefore, yes, study of the area should be done but reception of it should NOT be contingent upon understanding because does anyone think the Apostles understood the Mysteries they received? I’m sure no one would claim the invalidity of their priesthoods because they didn’t understand it.

 

[Lapey]

I know the numbers as I am tied to the program and we are missing few. Those that we are missing have enrolled in the neighboring diocese to get the Sacrament in 8th grade so they can have their Sunday’s free for secular activities. By doing this they must leave our parish and enroll in the neighboring parish.

I twisted no words…Just took off the sugar coating.

You have touched though on a good point…Committed Parents. If the parents were truly committed and value living their Catholic faith, there wouldn’t be an issue. They are not.

As a deacon in the Church I assure you I know the numbers as well, and I do not believe your general estimate that you reach most, with the few left to go to another diocese. It’s just not believable; unless you discount all who left the programs but still live in your parish. Your blanket reasoning is also insulting at best.

There was no sugar on my words, you misused them to make it sound as though either I care less about kids than you or just to make me look bad for whatever reason. I do not owe you anything but this; as a deacon I work more with teens than you can ever dream of working, I’ve been directly involved for quite some time. I handle all of the diocesan level events, TEC (3 per year), CLI, rally’s, Jr. High events, Steubenville conference…oh, and by the way, teach confirmation with my wife, the parish youth coordinator. I am also charged with the duty of everything CCD and youth ministry for our parish by my pastor.

I assure you my words do not come from lack of experience or hands on work. So if you care to take the sugar coating off of someone’s words, I would suggest picking a lessor opponent, one who doesn’t know better than the story you are telling.

Now, if you would like to get back to the subject and stop insulting and putting people down who have differing opinions, please be my guest. If you care to continue with the arrogant I know best mentality, well then I am done with you.

Peace,
Deacon Gary.

 

[Lapey]

I know the numbers as I am tied to the program and we are missing few. Those that we are missing have enrolled in the neighboring diocese to get the Sacrament in 8th grade so they can have their Sunday’s free for secular activities. By doing this they must leave our parish and enroll in the neighboring parish.

I twisted no words…Just took off the sugar coating.

You have touched though on a good point…Committed Parents. If the parents were truly committed and value living their Catholic faith, there wouldn’t be an issue. They are not.

PS…You say you are “tied” to the program, I am charged with the program. I assure you are missing over half of the high school aged kids who now currently reside in your parish’s territory.

 

[canis73]

Or were you taught, as so many have been, that Confirmation is about making an adult commitment to your faith and the Church?

Yup, I went to a Catholic school and that was what they would tell us at the time. That it was our willing choice to fully embrace religion as adults.