Should the Government or the Patient Decide What is Medically Necessary

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The actual dichotomy, as some have pointed out, is more like “government or private insurers”.

If Humana won’t approve your open heart surgery, start saying your goodbyes because your American surgeon probably won’t do it.
 
Oh, the civlian-sector ethics committee meetings I’ve been privy to where that was exactly the case.

People slag socialized medicine but as a person in a one-payor system I can tell you there are tons of positives to the arrangement.

Would it work for 330 million? I’m not sure about that.
 
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Pup7 said:
How would you pay for that, exactly?

That’s going out AMA - against medical advice - both here and there. The NHS would not pay, and no insurer here will pay for AMA either.

And again, even if the child suffocated to death on a flight, you’d be ethically okay with that? As a medical professional, I would not.
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I never said the NHS should have to pay for it. And neither should an insurer. They simply should not stand in the way.

I’m not OK with a child being starved to death. I would rather an accidental suffocation vs a purposeful starvation.

NOTE: Again, I’m working under the assumption that they pulled food & water while his body could still naturally digest.
 
First off, it’s physiologically impossible to starve in five days. Parenteral and liquid nutrition is regulated and adjusted according to daily labs. He had better nutrition, chemically speaking, than a lot of us. He was also probably better hydrated than most of us. So he wouldn’t have starved to death.
 
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Vonsalza said:
The actual dichotomy, as some have pointed out, is more like “government or private insurers”.

If Humana won’t approve your open heart surgery, start saying your goodbyes because your American surgeon probably won’t do it.
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Correct. However, Humana wouldn’t prevent you from moving to another hospital if you found a hospital / doctor willing to do it for free.
 
Oh, yes they can…and they certainly do.

They can refuse to pay your outstanding balance if you go AMA.

Private insurers in this country have a frightening and bizarre amount of power.

Yes, it depends on the policy, the state it’s administered in, the umbrella it falls under - but you’d be horrified at what an insurance company can do.

Not running out…my lunch hour is over.
 
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Pup7 said:
First off, it’s physiologically impossible to starve in five days. Parenteral and liquid nutrition is regulated and adjusted according to daily labs. He had better nutrition, chemically speaking, than a lot of us. He was also probably better hydrated than most of us. So he wouldn’t have starved to death.
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Well, this article says “Most people would likely die within 3 -4 days without drinking or eating anything, and rarely one would survive over a week.”

www.healthhype.com

How Long Can a Human Survive Without Food or Water?

How Many Days Can You Go Without Water and Food? In a situation, where you do not have an access to water (and food), it is important to know, how long can you survive. Most people would likely die within 3 -4 days without drinking or eating anything, and rarely one would survive over a week...
www.healthhype.com www.healthhype.com
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Dehydration in normal conditions takes about 7-10 days - “normal” meaning you’re not hiking in 100 degree heat.
 
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The “patient’s best interests” is not a science, but is a subjective judgement based on the value system of the individual(s) making that judgement. The quality of life, potential and worth of the individual, and the sanctity of life are not things that can be determined scientifically, they are moulded by personal belief system. I think the view that the professionals are always best placed to make such final decisions in these matters is quite scary.
 
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Pup7 said:
Oh, yes they can…and they certainly do.

They can refuse to pay your outstanding balance if you go AMA.

Private insurers in this country have a frightening and bizarre amount of power.

Yes, it depends on the policy, the state it’s administered in, the umbrella it falls under - but you’d be horrified at what an insurance company can do.

Not running out…my lunch hour is over.
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Financially, yes they can make it a living hell. But they can’t go to court to prevent you from moving them when they are not financially on the hook.
 
I think starving a person for 5 days makes it easier for the important systems in our body to “give up” if they are already taxed by illness.
 
Brendan_64 said:
The “patient’s best interests” is not a science, but is a subjective judgement based on the value system of the individual(s) making that judgement. The quality of life, potential and worth of the individual, and the sanctity of life are not things that can be determined scientifically, they are moulded by personal belief system. The view that the professionals are always best placed to make such final decisions in these matters is quite scary.
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Correct. Medical doctors/professionals are scientists. This is the role of philosophy and religion, not science.
 
I’m well aware of what’s provided in liquid nutrition. I used to help calculate the nutritional requirements.

There’s very little “raw water” in it, in reality. We don’t rely on it for hydration needs in the least.
 
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Monica83 said:
I think starving a person for 5 days makes it easier for the important systems in our body to “give up” if they are already taxed by illness.
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True. But starving a person is 100% against our Catholic faith.
 
Not in every case. It would seem that way, but there’s a reason that we say if your heart is strong it takes longer to die - because it’s true.
 
Pup7 said:
I’m well aware of what’s provided in liquid nutrition. I used to help calculate the nutritional requirements.

There’s very little “raw water” in it, in reality. We don’t rely on it for hydration needs in the least.
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I have not personally been involved. But I have spoken personally to Terri Schiavo’s brother and mother about this.

And I’ve been considering a Master’s degree in Bioethics.

God Bless
 
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