Should the US expand Medicaid to 400% of the Federal Poverty Level

[Theo2]

Is this charity? If it is let charitable organizations handle it. They are better at it than the government. If you believe politicians and the people who run the government are more humane, I don’t agree. If it is not charity then let private business handle it.

 

[RCIAGraduate]

And if the charity lacks capacity to serve all those in need?

And what if someone cannot afford the services of said business?

Several nations seem to provide a baseline floor of care for all, including those in need. even if its modest and humble, why not us, why not the US if I may ask?

 

[boldlygo]

So do you have evidence to show the fault in this? If there is, I am sure we would all be open to it. If not, don’t shoot the messenger, or allow patriotism to cloud the faults of this country.

Look at your first chart…more than half of our ‘expenditures’ are private…this includes research…if you remove patent protections, you remove the incentive to do the lifesaving research…if you use government funds to ‘buy’ [confiscate] this private property, then force the researchers to work for the government, under the control of the federal bureaucracy, your costs would skyrocket, because of the added layers of bureaucracy, and your quality would plummet…the government is not capable of doing this well…as a disabled vet, I’ve seen the layers upon layers of incompetency in the VA healthcare system, and that’s the only attempt they’ve made at large-scale healthcare.
By the way, I’m a Catholic first, and an American a distant second…

 

[pnewton]

Is this charity? If it is let charitable organizations handle it. They are better at it than the government.

I understand this sentiment. I wonder of it is universal though. I have no doubt that charitable organizations are better able to handle that which is closer to them, but I think that maybe more because of subsidiarity. My Church can handle the needs in my parish, as they are closer. If they had the same amount of funds, there would be more done.

However, when it comes do nationwide issues, I do not know if this is true. So, can subsidiarity still apply. Maybe. Perhaps what would work best would be charitable NGO’s administering sections of healthcare, being as compartmentalized as possible.

 

[Lifeisbeautiful3]

We are not far off from medical advancements that can facilitate increase of life expectancy by many years, but not without extraordinary efforts and associated costs. These technologies are not free. How will we, as a society, determine who should be eligible?

Take, for example, an organ transplant this costs $100,000 or more. Is that ‘acceptable’ to extend life a decade? A year? A month? A week? Which will work better: a free market or a government-run system? I’m not sure, but these are the questions we’ll have to consider.

 

[Theo2]

And if the charity lacks capacity to serve all those in need?

Then we need to pray and ask people to make bigger sacrifices. Of course the health care would be basic, and that is an incentive for people to get out od poverty. Two big reasons for people living in poverty are not graduating from high school and having children outside of marriage. We do not want to enable bad decisions.

And what if someone cannot afford the services of said business?

Then they go on charity.

Several nations seem to provide a baseline floor of care for all, including those in need. even if its modest and humble, why not us, why not the US if I may ask?

I know several countries have long lines to get the health care service. Also, many of those countries are in deep debt. The US is in debt. How do you suggest we pay for it.

 

[pnewton]

as a disabled vet, I’ve seen the layers upon layers of incompetency in the VA healthcare system,

See, this is good evidence that nationalized health care is not a panacea. In an ideal work, the VA system would be compared with what works in other countries to determine why what works one place (keeps people alive longer), does not work in another.

It may be that democracy, that which made America, is the very thing that will always keep use from becoming efficient. Bureaucracy is nothing but a reflection of democracy. It is an allegory of us. Everyone wants their piece of the pie in America, resulting in leaders that can deliver pie to the most, not leadership or solutions. Likewise, our government has become a tangle of pie deliver systems for one person here, another over here, in a patchwork of service driven by special interest.

There may be no escape and we have to settle for mediocrity, like the leaders we elect.

 

[ProVobis]

Monte, I’m curious as to why you’ve provided a link to these short-term fraudulent plans promoted by Trump. The Christian plans OTOH have merit as long as they are accepted by providers.

 

[philipl]

What taxes are you going to raise? If you just raise the income tax not matter what you do the government will only get 18% to 20% of GDP. So that wont work as we run deficit spending right now. You can raise Medicare/Medicaid tax. But to cover all Americans at a basic level will force the government to spend another 3 trillion a year. This wont be a 1.5% raise in the tax. You’re are talking 15%, to 25%. That means a person earning $35,000. That is about $8,000 a year. That is for Medicaid type health care. We are not talking about gold, silver, bronze but tin.

 

[boldlygo]

as a disabled vet, I’ve seen the layers upon layers of incompetency in the VA healthcare system,

Agreed!

It may be that democracy, that which made America, is the very thing that will always keep use from becoming efficient. Bureaucracy is nothing but a reflection of democracy. It is an allegory of us. Everyone wants their piece of the pie in America, resulting in leaders that can deliver pie to the most, not leadership or solutions.

Again, agreed!

Likewise, our government has become a tangle of pie deliver systems for one person here, another over here, in a patchwork of service driven by special interest.

Once more, agreed!

There may be no escape and we have to settle for mediocrity, like the leaders we elect.

We don’t have to settle for mediocrity if we keep healthcare out of the hands of the government…an old friend, an 82-year-old, sober-for-40-years recovering alcoholic, is a patient at the Cleveland Clinic…he’s receiving dialysis at one of the finest medical facilities in the world…they’re doing their best to improve his quality of life, and allow him to continue enjoying that life in the future. Would a government that has allowed many millions to be slaughtered by abortion and now permits euthanasia do that for him?

 

[MonteRCMS]

Monte, I’m curious as to why you’ve provided a link to these short-term fraudulent plans promoted by Trump. The Christian plans OTOH have merit as long as they are accepted by providers.

You want ONE plan.

Not gonna happen.

 

[Mi_Rose]

Medicare covers dialysis.

 

[DarkLight]

If the state is going to get engaged, it should be help help with catastrophic coverage only, this is what bankrupts so many.

The concern I’d have about catastrophic care is it leaves those with chronic health conditions out - many chronic conditions can add up to thousands of dollars a year, every year. I think there’s a real gap in our system, right now, when it comes to dealing with chronic issues - especially among those who are able to work with proper medical care.

I have actually heard about people deliberately limiting their income, because if they made more they would lose benefits - but the pay increase would not be enough to meet their needs without the benefits. That’s a worry in particular with healthcare, because of the way insurance works.

 

[Ridgerunner]

People can get care. It’s just not necessarily optimal. What level of care are you willing to accept? The level at Indian clinics on reservations? Is that acceptable to you? What about VA? Acceptable or not acceptable? What about the free clinics a lot of cities and even small towns have? Acceptable?

I don’t oppose “healthcare for all”. But I think it’s inevitable that there will be tiers of care unless prohibited by law. If tiers are allowed, then the only real questions are what level you would find acceptable and what you’re willing to pay for it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The concern I’d have about catastrophic care is it leaves those with chronic health conditions out - many chronic conditions can add up to thousands of dollars a year, every year

Not just every year. I met a woman about a month ago who has non-small cell lung cancer, for which she takes two medications. The total cost is $41,000.00 per month. Fortunately for her, she has Medicare and a supplemental policy. But it’s still costing them a lot.

I know an NP in a mental health clinic who has told me there are some psych meds that can cost $20,000/month.

I knew a man who had pancreatic cancer. The doctors “did everything”. He lasted six months and it cost over a million dollars.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m not sure I would trust the WHO with anything. For one thing, “life expectancy” is a statistical phenomenon. The older a population is, the higher is its life expectancy. An 80 year old has a higher life expectancy than an 8 month old because the 80 year old has survived life’s hazards while the 8 month old has to live through them all.

Even if one is looking at expected life span at birth, there are anomalies in the way different countries count “live births”. In the U.S. a birth is considered a “live birth” if the baby shows the slightest sign of life even if massively premature. In other first world countries, a born child is not counted as a “live birth” until it has survived a significant period of time.

Prior to Obamacare, some 80% of the population had health coverage of some sort and were satisfied with it. Is the same percentage of Frenchmen satisfied with it in their “two tier” system in which they have to pay the provider up front and then bill the government?

In the U.S., illegal immigrants get at least ER care, no questions asked. In much of Europe they have to pay in advance and get nothing paid for by the government.

It’s not too surprising that European countries by and large don’t have the means of self-defense. They spend it all on benefits and even then they don’t have all that great a deal.

 

[Theo520]

The concern I’d have about catastrophic care is it leaves those with chronic health conditions out - many chronic conditions can add up to thousands of dollars a year, every year. I think there’s a real gap in our system, right now, when it comes to dealing with chronic issues - especially among those who are able to work with proper medical care.

I have actually heard about people deliberately limiting their income, because if they made more they would lose benefits - but the pay increase would not be enough to meet their needs without the benefits. That’s a worry in particular with healthcare, because of the way insurance works.

Sorry but I don’t think we owe people unlimited care for chronic conditions. Our always limited funds should go to giving more basic care to the masses, not the 1% that can spend hundreds of thousands on their condition.

I also don’t think public care should cover heart transplants and expensive end of life treatments.

 

[pnewton]

I’m not sure I would trust the WHO with anything. For one thing, “life expectancy” is a statistical phenomenon. The older a population is, the higher is its life expectancy.

As I said earlier, I am open to other data. I disagree about life expectancy though. Just the fact you have an older population to affect the data is data itself. So if you can show any measurement that indicates America doesn’t suck at healthcare, please give it.

 

[DarkLight]

The question is, what is the option for those people? Are we going to repeatedly spend thousands of dollars on ER bills instead? Are we going to house and feed people who can’t work because they can’t afford their meds? Or are we just going to let people die for lack of money?

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Likewise, our government has become a tangle of pie deliver systems for one person here, another over here,

I think of it as an ice cream delivery system.

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