Should the US expand Medicaid to 400% of the Federal Poverty Level

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pnewton said:
As I said earlier, I am open to other data. I disagree about life expectancy though. Just the fact you have an older population to affect the data is data itself. So if you can show any measurement that indicates America doesn’t suck at healthcare, please give it.
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There are a lot of sources defending U.S. healthcare. Outcomes are a lot better in the U.S. for some things like most cancers, but not as good as some other things. One thing about the U.S. is that it’s already a “two tier” system. AT the very bottom, it’s not very good at all. AT the top, it’s the best in the world. The question in arguing for universal healthcare is where the quality gets placed. Does everybody get indifferent care?

There are also huge variations from place to place in the U.S., both in cost and in outcomes.
 
pnewton said:
I disagree about life expectancy though. Just the fact you have an older population to affect the data is data itself
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If you look up the HHS life tables, you will see immediately that the older one is, the longer is his/her life expectancy. It’s a statistical thing.

Oops! Forgot to list some of the articles. But the one I would really like to find (again) is a study of various conditions and what your outcome is going to be in different countries. Seemed the more challenging the condition, the better the U.S. compared. The U.S. is at the top in a lot of things, near it in many, many others.

http://www.pbs.org/program/us-health-care-good-news/


 
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So many of your ‘needs’ are actually ‘wants’. I’m a 70-year-old ‘boomer’, and your list of school ‘needs’ is more inflated than your view of the military.
Back in the 60’s, federal aid to education became a reality, and education here in the States has been on a downward spiral ever since. Federal aid to education meant federal control of education, and the results have been devastating.
Standardized test scores on both the ACT and the SAT have been adjusted downward over time to cover up the decline in quality of education. A perfect score back then meant 100% correct; now, a ‘perfect’ score allows 4 or 5 errors.
We had an average of 55 students per classroom…art class was an elderly nun coming in once a week for 15 minutes…ditto music…counselors, social workers, and psychologists? Why?
But we had advantages, too…tight neighborhoods, close extended families, divorce being the rare exception rather than the rule, many stay-at-home mothers, the vast majority of children born to married parents…we looked out for one another.
Today, as a member of a rural parish, [quite a change from my youth…] I see the same values…many multigenerational families…few divorces…close friendships…and an Outreach program that provides food and help with rent and utilities to those in need. Several local churches have come together to provide shelter for the homeless on a rotating basis.
I guess we look at things differently…you think the government should take care of all our ‘needs’; I know the government is responsible for screwing things up in the first place, and we can do a lot better by handling things ourselves.
 
The federal government can cut 100% of spending outside of mandatory spending and still will spend about 600 billion more than than it take in for revenue. You can tax the rich 100% of their income only get about 400 billion that one year. The next year that well will have dried up. The federal government has promised to pay in manadotroy spending more money than it will earn by the amount of 65 to 150 trillion over the next 50 years. The best solution is to not add any more entitlement programs such as ACA or Free health care. It will add trillions in added expenditure with no way to pay for it except printing money. Next let people 35 and under opt out of SS and Medicare instead having to place money in their 401 that cant be touched except for reason you can get your SS. Write my wife and I a check returning all the money we put into SS and Medicare and the government can keep the money our employers put there. That alone will save the government 50% are more in SS spending. The government has to get out of the entitlement managing business. Make people responsible for themselves. Make these types of program voluntary. Create completion in health care and retirement programs and you will see lower cost and better payouts.
 
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I have to admit, this sort of thing makes me nervous.

The flip side of local communities is it makes it easier to perpetuate problems if the people with access to resources are ok with the situation. I know there’s stories that go more like, divorce is never ok and no one should intervene in another family, even when everyone knows that the husband is coming home and beating his wife. But because of how awful divorce is, no one should encourage it by supporting the wife in leaving.
 
DarkLight said:
I have to admit, this sort of thing makes me nervous.

The flip side of local communities is it makes it easier to perpetuate problems if the people with access to resources are ok with the situation. I know there’s stories that go more like, divorce is never ok and no one should intervene in another family, even when everyone knows that the husband is coming home and beating his wife. But because of how awful divorce is, no one should encourage it by supporting the wife in leaving.
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Spouse or child abuse is criminal, and deserves either a personal or police intervention. It doesn’t even need to lead to divorce, just change.

When you have a community and connection to your neighbors, there are ways to influence them. Now many don’t have that community connection with their neighbors that could support families going through a rough patch. Instead of getting food delivered because someone died, your neighbors don’t even know it happened.
 
Theo520 said:
Spouse or child abuse is criminal, and deserves either a personal or police intervention. It doesn’t even need to lead to divorce, just change.
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It is, but my point is it’s easy for a community to decide that they collectively don’t care about certain things, or that they won’t believe them.

I’ve heard many cases of child abuse where the answer was “oh, they’re such a nice family, the kid was probably acting out.” I remember reading one story where there was sexual abuse going on in the home, but because it was a small town and the father was considered a saint for marrying an unwed mother, the community as a whole lapped up the man’s excuses. So all that happened was that the abused kid got a reputation as a slut and a liar.

There’s a lot of stories out of the quiverfull movement too. They tend to form their own towns. One of the central beliefs is that women should never work, and that a girl should stay at home until she marries a man her father approves of (dating isn’t allowed, nor is much mingling between sexes). Most kids are homeschooled, and it’s very common that girls aren’t taught a lot of basic life skills like how to get a job or open a bank account or find an apartment. And the community doesn’t see anything wrong with that, so it won’t step in - in fact it will pressure people to stay.

I’m not saying this to say that communities are bad, but that a small community is only as good as the morals and reasoning of its members. It tends to enforce and reinforce those morals, which is a good thing if the foundation is good and a bad thing if the foundation is bad.
 
Ridgerunner said:
One thing about the U.S. is that it’s already a “two tier” system. AT the very bottom, it’s not very good at all.
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That would explain the data, as it is based on averages. In this case, I would say that America deserves a lower ranking, but only in my opinion, as I think a nation should be judged as God judges. How does it care for the least among them? That is the issue, and I by no means think my solution above is the best. I threw it out as a possible solution. Another solution might be to make a true two-tier system where patent protections are dependent upon providing the same drugs free or cheap for the poor and indigent, with the exchange being immunity from liability.
 
philipl said:
, yet you show none of that outside the box thinking.
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That’s a matter of opinion. I have mentioned my third idea, with the first two being mentioned earlier. Sure, what you say is true if you stand as judge of your own standard, but that is hardly fair. I just do not think America should be satisfied with mediocrity in our society.
boldlygo said:
So many of your ‘needs’ are actually ‘wants’.
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boldlygo said:
you think the government should take care of all our ‘needs’; I know the government is responsible for screwing things up in the first place,
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In light of this thread topic, we are speaking of a need, that of being alive as opposed to dead. The current administration cares more about protecting the assets of the rich, which is what we get when electing and wealthy New York financier. As to the government’s role, I would point that protection of the poor is one of the roles of government as part of Catholic doctrine.
Second, the common good requires the social well-being and development of the group itself. Development is the epitome of all social duties. Certainly, it is the proper function of authority to arbitrate, in the name of the common good, between various particular interests; but it should make accessible to each what is needed to lead a truly human life: food, clothing, health, work, education and culture, suitable information, the right to establish a family, and so on
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http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c2a2.htm

This is not a matter of political opinion, but of doctrine, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Any one who claims to be pro-life and is satisfied with the discrepancy in how long the poor live and how long the rich live, is hypocritical in their pro-life position. Life is of equal value in dignity, not just in the womb, but in nursing home.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
There are also huge variations from place to place in the U.S., both in cost and in outcomes.
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This must be true, because at least where I live, people on Medicaid go to the same specialists (i.e. eye doctors, gastroenterologists, kidney doctors, etc.) as everyone else and I believe that they also get good quality primary care as well.
 
pnewton said:
In light of this thread topic, we are speaking of a need, that of being alive as opposed to dead.
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I might speak of “alive and functioning.”

From my own experiences, while they might not be in the very strict sense needs, being able to go to work, come home, and fix myself a basic dinner and eat it without help was very important, and I do think society should work towards that being the goal for others.
 
boldlygo said:
I guess we look at things differently…you think the government should take care of all our ‘needs’; I know the government is responsible for screwing things up in the first place, and we can do a lot better by handling things ourselves.
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I’ve read accounts of people who grew up in terrible poverty in the Appalachian region, and I don’t think it was ever very wonderful there. And lots of hospitals have been closing in rural areas so that people have to drive long distances to get to the nearest one which can mean lost lives in an emergency. If the Federal Government was not helping these rural areas to some extent, it would be even worse than what it is now.
 
pnewton said:
That’s a matter of opinion. I have mentioned my third idea, with the first two being mentioned earlier. Sure, what you say is true if you stand as judge of your own standard, but that is hardly fair. I just do not think America should be satisfied with mediocrity in our society.
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I am not judging my own standards. I have posted links from a Private Catholic Institution and a Professor of economic that point out facts. Yet what I get from the left leanners is platitudes, nothing of substance.
 
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RCIAGraduate said:
Is there a problem (I realized there is a lot of strife in this thread).
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Not anymore. There was a new user (a troll) who violated guidelines, and I wanted moderation to be aware of it. Their comments have been removed.
 
The federal government has no right nor business engaging in medical care.
 
So would you diss the Salk vaccine (among other things) because of your principles?
 
I’m not arguing with you, but at the same time, I’ve seen the government botch just about everything it’s tried to do…Obamacare is a joke, and a bad joke at that…VA healthcare is a disaster that I’ve experienced personally…
Until we as a society begin to value life again, nothing will change, and neither political party seems interested in that at all, so we can’t count on the government.
 
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