Should there be a new political party based on Catholic Social Doctrine and Pro-Life Doctrine?

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The First Amendment states that the federal government shall not “establish” a religion.
Not exactly. The 1st Amendment prohibits laws respecting (regarding, referring to) the establishment of religion. Which means the people can establish any religion they wish and also that the government will establish none and further, that no law can be instituted that is soley religious in nature. This is a complete separation of religion and state.

**Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
**
The “establishement” of a church by the government which is forbidden to the federal government was still permitted to the states–Virginia continued to have as its established church Episcopalianism.
People were also arrested and prosecuted for criticizing the President for a while. Note there are no state religions now, nor can there be.
Thus, the federal government cannot “establish” a church, but that does not mean that religion cannot enter the publc sphere of discourse.
I never said it couldn’t or shouldn’t. After all, the Constitution guarantees it. In the same Amendment.
 
Well, lets see now.

Party “A”- Ending abortion. Marriage as god intended. (man + Woman) Capital punishment. Ending workers rights. Tax breaks for the super wealthy. Reduction is social welfare programs. Turning SSI over to “the Market”. Doing away with Pension programs for retiree’s. (work til you drop)
Party “B”- Pro abortion. Social welfare in many forms, (I’ll included workers rights here) for all. Ending capital punishment? Legalizing same sex marriage. Forcing religious groups to violate their “faith traditions”.

I don’t see "dignity of the person " represented in either party.🤷

Third party anyone?
Pope Benedict said in 2004 there can be a diversity of opinion among Catholics about the death penalty.

Voting for third party candidate may help the most pro abortion candidate of one of the two parties become President.
 
The problem with the premise of this thread is that it is based on a invalid assumption. The fact is that even in a perfect world there could never be a Catholic political party because, as far as the social teachings are concerned, the solutions represent prudential choices. The Church tells us that abortion is wrong in all circumstances but she does not tell us anything about the minimum wage. She tells us to condemn euthanasia but leaves it up to us to balance the budget. Surely she provides the objectives we should strive to achieve but as to how best to reach those goals she provides no specific directions. Supporting the Arizona illegal immigration law is neither more nor less moral than opposing it and the same is true for the Ryan budget and Obamacare. This doesn’t meant that any approach will be as effective as any other for clearly they won’t be; it just means that it isn’t immoral to be mistaken and that most prudential decisions don’t involve any moral choices.

Ender
 
Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s! I think the church need not get any more involved in these crazy politics than it has to. What happened to separation of church and state? I think we should not vote and pray instead. Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls into heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy, Amen. Leave the politics to the kooks, our king is not of this world.
The current problem is not the church meddling in the state, but the state in church.
 
You should not support a candidate for office based on their religion, per se, but on their stated positions on campaign issues (and, if an incumbent, on their record in office).

If you oppose someone because they are a Mormon, then you would be committing the same error as those who opposed John Kennedy 13 cycles ago for being Catholic. The fact that we disagree with Mormon theology is a non-sequitur; there are voters in this country who disagree just as strongly with that of the Catholic Church.

Election to office is not about theology.

You can’t get more “all American” than Mormonism – the faith is based here – until a Native American runs for the presidency.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA
Thank you for that very insightful answer. I agree very much with you but, you must admit that the religious faith of an American president is taken into consideration whether or not it should be. President Kennedy is a perfect example of that. Would we not scrutinize the intentions of a Muslim candidate?
 
Pope Benedict said in 2004 there can be a diversity of opinion among Catholics about the death penalty.

Voting for third party candidate may help the most pro abortion candidate of one of the two parties become President.
I’m opposed to all killing. Outside of self defense, or just war.

Your analogy is tantamount to giving in to black mail. ie Let us run riot, or your supporting abortion. It’s not true of course. We can, with a clear conscience. Withold support for either, or both parties.

ATB
 
GEddie;9341854:
You should not support a candidate for office based on their religion, per se, but on their stated positions on campaign issues (and, if an incumbent, on their record in office).

If you oppose someone because they are a Mormon, then you would be committing the same error as those who opposed John Kennedy 13 cycles ago for being Catholic. The fact that we disagree with Mormon theology is a non-sequitur; there are voters in this country who disagree just as strongly with that of the Catholic Church.

Election to office is not about theology.

You can’t get more “all American” than Mormonism – the faith is based here – until a Native American runs for the presidency.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA
Thank you for that very insightful answer. I agree very much with you but, you must admit that the religious faith of an American president is taken into consideration whether or not it should be. President Kennedy is a perfect example of that. Would we not scrutinize the intentions of a Muslim candidate?
Of course. Anybody’s intentions should be carefully studied when they become a political candidate, for any but the most minor offices.

But those intentions should not be equated with the candidate’s religion, which is ultimately between him/her and God.

Islam is currently a special case because this country is fighting enemies who claim to be fighting for Islam. This brings up an issue of divided loyalty. It is as though someone who were Shinto campaigned for political office in the USA in 1942 or 1944.

ICXC NIKA
 
First, is there really such a thing as an official list 5 Non-Negotiables for Catholic voters? Who said so? The pope? I hear and see this list a lot. But is it just a tool devised for electing politicians who claim to be Pro-Life?

Secondly, are the following NOT on a list of Non-Negotiables?

(1) Denial of religious liberty for persons of all religions. (Presently the presidential administration is being sued for denial of religious liberty in forcing Catholic institutions to pay for contraceptives in their insurance plans)
(2) The Catholic Just War Doctrine (using that doctrine Blessed Pope John Paul II unequivocally condemned the 2003 invasion of Iraq by the US and the UK; if Pope Pius XII had spoken out the way Blessed John Paul II did, maybe WWII and the Holocaust would have never occurred.). Why would this NOT be a non-negotiable. It DIRECTLY involves the KILLING of human beings.
(3) Racist legislation, or ending of legislation that makes racist discrimination illegal in hiring, housing, etc.
(4) Denial of lifesaving health care to Americans lacking the funds to pay for it. [at a political rally recently conservatives in the audience infamously chanted “Let them die!” for people without health insurance]

Even worse, all parties have consultants who advise the party leaders on how to win election. It has been reported that these consultants have advised professedly pro-life politicians to make only token efforts to criminalize abortion, since if abortion ever is criminalized, that will make it very hard for some politicians to get elected on the basis of conservative religious voters for whom lower taxes and less regulations on big corporations is not a galvanizing issue.

Some people have been puzzled about why professedly pro-life presidents have nominated people to the Supreme Court who turn out to vote pro-choice on abortion. Some have said that this was planned, so that abortion would remain legal and thus a constant campaign issue to be used to get the votes of conservative religious voters. In short, the conclusion is that politicians who claim to accept Catholic Pro-Life Doctrine but who dissent from Catholic Social Doctrine, on the basis that the Pro-Life Doctrine is a more grave matter, are, in fact, in some cases, just manipulating conservative religious voters.

Former Senator John Danforth, who ran as a pro-life politicians for his who career, after he retired wrote a book in which he confessed that he was not really fully pro-life and hated going to churches full of evangelicals in which he had to pretend to share their views. He said that the disagree with Roe vs. Wade, but only because he said he thought it had no solid basis in the Constitution. Rather, in his true view (kept secret during his career in politics, by his own admission) was that abortion laws should be decided by each state government, and he is okay if some states keep abortion legal. I cite him as just one example of a pretend pro-life politician. In my view, there are MANY more like him.

In politics, as in war, the “divide and conquer” strategy is one of the most effective. Dividing Catholics into those who vote only the basis of Pro-Life issues from those who give much value to Catholic Social Doctrine is way for both Godless Socialists and Godless Capitalists to get elected and to work together to lead the nation and the world further and further down the path to a Godless, Brutal Society.

At least, that’s one way of looking at all this.
No, those are not on the list of non-negotiables. It really doesn’t have to be said, does it, that the 5 things I listed fall VERY high above such things as denial of religious liberty? You have to be alive before you can have any liberty.

Blurring the issues that Catholics MUST consider when voting is a real problem, and posts such as this one illustrate the twists and turns some Catholics do in order to justify how they vote. I hope that was not your intent, but I see it frequently on CAF, and it troubles me greatly.
 
Sorry for going off message, back to the question at hand…How about no parties. Get money out of campaigns, let the people choose the nominees, with no party affiliation attached, only judged by their record and character. Loose both parties and base it in the individual. My last post, promise 🙂
 
I am referring to the USA. There may already be such a party in some other nations or states.

In the USA at present, there is no political party whose members support both Catholic Social Doctrine and Catholic Pro-Life Doctrine.

There are two major political parties in the USA at present.

In one of these parties, most elected officials who are Catholic strongly and fervently dissent from Catholic Pro-Life Doctrine.

In the other party most elected officials who are Catholic strongly and fervently dissent from Catholic Social Doctrine.

I think this makes many Catholics feel conflicted and divided.

I think it also causes many Catholics to be misinformed about the actual content and seriousness of Catholic Pro-Life Doctrine and Catholic Social Doctrine.

Because the mass media (especially TV, radio, newspaper, news web sites) are dominated by reporting on political news and give little attention to religious news, many Catholics often never hear an authentically and complete Catholic position on Pro-Life and Social issues.

Thus, if there were a new party that was dedicated to compete fidelity to the Catholic Social Doctrine and Catholic Pro-Life Doctrine, that would, at least, cause there to more often be an authentic and faithful Catholic point of view in mass media discussions on issues related to actions and policies of the secular government…

Any such party could be run entirely by lay people. Bishops and priests would have no involvement. No one would even have to be Catholic to be a member. They’d only have to agree to support the doctrines of the Catholic Church pertaining to Social and Pro-Life issues.
No because third parties never become as big or popular in America as (as Mickey Finn has put it ;)) Party “A” and Party “B”. I really wish there could be a third party in America (e.g Christian Democratic), but there won’t ever be one that will work.

Also, being pro-life is part of Catholic Social teaching, not its own separate thing.
 
Sorry for going off message, back to the question at hand…How about no parties. Get money out of campaigns, let the people choose the nominees, with no party affiliation attached, only judged by their record and character. Loose both parties and base it in the individual. My last post, promise 🙂
That would be cool, excpet there is really no way of getting rid of the parties. The Constitution does not provide for them, but their existence is deeply written into all of the rubrics of our governance.

ICXC NIKA
 
Well, lets see now.

Party “A”- Ending abortion. Marriage as god intended. (man + Woman) Capital punishment. Ending workers rights. Tax breaks for the super wealthy. Reduction is social welfare programs. Turning SSI over to “the Market”. Doing away with Pension programs for retiree’s. (work til you drop)
Party “B”- Pro abortion. Social welfare in many forms, (I’ll included workers rights here) for all. Ending capital punishment? Legalizing same sex marriage. Forcing religious groups to violate their “faith traditions”.

I don’t see "dignity of the person " represented in either party.🤷

Third party anyone?
I’ll add torture to Party “A” and excessive taxation to Party “B”.
 
I am referring to the USA. There may already be such a party in some other nations or states.

In the USA at present, there is no political party whose members support both Catholic Social Doctrine and Catholic Pro-Life Doctrine.

There are two major political parties in the USA at present.

In one of these parties, most elected officials who are Catholic strongly and fervently dissent from Catholic Pro-Life Doctrine.

In the other party most elected officials who are Catholic strongly and fervently dissent from Catholic Social Doctrine.

I think this makes many Catholics feel conflicted and divided.

I think it also causes many Catholics to be misinformed about the actual content and seriousness of Catholic Pro-Life Doctrine and Catholic Social Doctrine.

Because the mass media (especially TV, radio, newspaper, news web sites) are dominated by reporting on political news and give little attention to religious news, many Catholics often never hear an authentically and complete Catholic position on Pro-Life and Social issues.

Thus, if there were a new party that was dedicated to compete fidelity to the Catholic Social Doctrine and Catholic Pro-Life Doctrine, that would, at least, cause there to more often be an authentic and faithful Catholic point of view in mass media discussions on issues related to actions and policies of the secular government…

Any such party could be run entirely by lay people. Bishops and priests would have no involvement. No one would even have to be Catholic to be a member. They’d only have to agree to support the doctrines of the Catholic Church pertaining to Social and Pro-Life issues.
I would like to see more political parties, expressing diverse views. It would enliven our now moribund political process. I also favor a parliamentarian system. If catholic party candidates received 20% of the votes, then they would hold 20%of the seats. Ditto for atheists. This would go a long way toward making our government more representative of the voters.
 
I’ll add torture to Party “A” and excessive taxation to Party “B”.
I understand the non negotiable list and in essence concur with it.

I do wish, however, that fully-assembled and breathing human beings were given an equal priority of keeping alive relative to embryos and fetuses.

I mean, of course, those who are killed by the death penalty or armed violence, or those who die because they lack the financial means of necessary medical treatment.

ICXC NIKA
 
I understand the non negotiable list and in essence concur with it.

I do wish, however, that fully-assembled and breathing human beings were given an equal priority of keeping alive relative to embryos and fetuses.

I mean, of course, those who are killed by the death penalty or armed violence, or those who die because they lack the financial means of necessary medical treatment.

ICXC NIKA
While innocent people are executed wrongly, it is BABIES who are wholly and totally innocent and their deaths are NEVER justified. Armed violence can create a need for self-defense. And we do have the just war concept. No, it’s not perfect but abortion, euthanasia, fetal stem cell research, human cloning and homosexual marriage are always wrong, hands down, never ever justified.

Who are these people “who die because they lack the financial means of necessary medical treatment?” This shibboleth seems to appear every election cycle. To the contrary, people without any means to pay at all are treated every day in this country. Frequently, surgeons will donate their time and skill in order to help people in need. People who are not even citizens of this country get treatment in ERs.

But I am sure I am not going to change your mind. You will vote for the candidate that you can justify in your own mind.
 
I understand the non negotiable list and in essence concur with it.

I do wish, however, that fully-assembled and breathing human beings were given an equal priority of keeping alive relative to embryos and fetuses.

I mean, of course, those who are killed by the death penalty or armed violence, or those who die because they lack the financial means of necessary medical treatment.

ICXC NIKA
I think we agree. 🙂
 
While innocent people are executed wrongly, it is BABIES who are wholly and totally innocent and their deaths are NEVER justified. Armed violence can create a need for self-defense. And we do have the just war concept. No, it’s not perfect but abortion, euthanasia, fetal stem cell research, human cloning and homosexual marriage are always wrong, hands down, never ever justified.

Who are these people “who die because they lack the financial means of necessary medical treatment?” This shibboleth seems to appear every election cycle. To the contrary, people without any means to pay at all are treated every day in this country. Frequently, surgeons will donate their time and skill in order to help people in need. People who are not even citizens of this country get treatment in ERs.

But I am sure I am not going to change your mind. You will vote for the candidate that you can justify in your own mind.
Fine, Juliane, we will just need to agree to disagree.

In any case, God Bless and ICXC NIKA
 
The current problem is not the church meddling in the state, but the state in church.
The current problem is too much thinking about other things than the message of Jesus Christ and acting on it.

I do not find the state has “meddled” in my Church or is trying to.
 
I do wish, however, that fully-assembled and breathing human beings were given an equal priority of keeping alive relative to embryos and fetuses.

I mean, of course, those who are killed by the death penalty or armed violence, or those who die because they lack the financial means of necessary medical treatment.

ICXC NIKA
:yup:
 
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