Should there be actions taken to improve or even control immodest dress at mass?

[westboro]

[remembering my 13y.o. sister tearfully pinning a kleenex to her head on the way to church because she’d forgotten her holy doily].

Your sister sounds like a very special individual who had great respect for the protocol of the day. I can’t help but wonder if in her later life, when grown up, whether she retained a strong foundation in her faith. I don’t think anyone is suggesting a ‘dress code’ per say but rather to possibly ‘point out’ to individuals…discreetly in the bulletin or perhaps a sign… what would be ‘unacceptable’ dress. Allot of people seem to have ‘lost touch’ with their God given sense of decency and perhaps need re-education. Fr Corapi speaks about the ‘deadening’ of the conscience, which is the result of repeated, unconfessed sin. Given the fact that ‘everyone’ goes to communion these days and all of ‘five’ people go to confession on a Saturday night reflects this condition. The sad fact to the matter is that many Catholics no longer believe in the true presence of Jesus and that is a huge factor in the difference between today’s mass attendees and the old days when your sister wore her ‘holy doily’.

 

[mammallama]

t [remembering my 13y.o. sister tearfully pinning a kleenex to her head on the way to church because she’d forgotten her holy doily].

And may I add an anecdote from another person:Lady got to a Wedding Mass and realized she had forgotten her “doily”…Nope,none in glovebox…trunk…nowhere.Finally in desperation and near tears in the lady’s room she spotted that last lonely paper towel… she bobby-pinned it on her head and Presto!!!

 

[SwizzleStick]

And may I add an anecdote from another person:Lady got to a Wedding Mass and realized she had forgotten her “doily”…Nope,none in glovebox…trunk…nowhere.Finally in desperation and near tears in the lady’s room she spotted that last lonely paper towel… she bobby-pinned it on her head and Presto!!!

This took me back to my own childhood when daily morning Mass was a part of every school day at my school. All the girls used to wear little round veils, “doilies”, everyday. I washed/rinsed mine out one day and left it in the bathroom to dry where it mysteriously disappeared. I then had to wear a tissue bobby pinned to my head that day because the good sisters would not allow me to go to Mass without some type of head covering. It looked silly, I suppose, but it didn’t bother me. Since it didn’t bother me, my “doily” just as mysteriouly reappeared that afternoon in the bathroom right where I’d left it to dry before. Turns out my brother thought it would be funny to make me wear a tissue, but I took the fun out of it by not being bothered, so my “doily” came back again. If I had been bothered, I wonder how long I would have had to wear a tissue on my head before he’d decide to return it? ….

 

[Fitswimmer]

I think part of the problem is that many women AREN’T covered. I actally had a girl kneeling in front of me with her a_ _ crack hanging out and a tank top on. You tellin’ me thats okay? Why should I be subjected to that in the house of the Lord?
Also, when women wear clothes that are so tight that the clothes look like skin… …look, this is common sense stuff. Men are naturally drawn towards women, and young girl’s fashions today are often slutty. Thats just the plain truth. And men don’t weare clothes that have the same provacative effect.

You don’t have to dress like the Blessed Virgin. Just dress nice. Whats so hard about THAT!!

http://www.co.orange.nc.us/deeds/images/businesswomen.jpg
Example of nice clothes, for those who don’t get it

Maybe the best idea is for all women to wear uniforms and nothing else would be sold or available for them.

Oh…wait…they’ve already tried that-in Communist China.

God saves us all from the Clothing Police…

 

[Fitswimmer]

Those shameless hussies with their hair showing wouldn’t have been welcome in a Catholic church in 1960. And I’m pretty sure you can see that one woman’s collarbone if you tilt your head just so. Ooooh-- I think they are even wearing FACE PAINT!!!

Which kind of prooves that modesty is both in the eye of the beholder, and a constantly moving target.

I’m NOT advocating tank tops and short shorts, but I do think it’s possible to go too far in the other direction, too.

That’s why I don’t like the idea of a posted dress code: I’m honestly afraid of just who in my parish would appoint herself to write it [remembering my 13y.o. sister tearfully pinning a kleenex to her head on the way to church because she’d forgotten her holy doily].

Children being made to feel like mortal sinners because they didn’t have a piece of cloth on their heads, yeah, that’s the sign of mature faith.

 

[surfinpure]

Children being made to feel like mortal sinners because they didn’t have a piece of cloth on their heads, yeah, that’s the sign of mature faith.

Is sarcasm also a sign?

Seriously, there is nothing wrong with formation of conscience or teaching children a standard of modesty. The entire point of ‘modesty’ is ‘moderation.’ The solution to overkill is not underkill; it’s moderation. And children fare much better with a well formed conscience than when allowed to form their ‘own’ decisions about what is appropriate. I would much rather a daughter of mine be worried because she’d lost her mantilla than think it’s okay to wear a Britney Spears outfit to Mass.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Is sarcasm also a sign?

Seriously, there is nothing wrong with formation of conscience or teaching children a standard of modesty. The entire point of ‘modesty’ is ‘moderation.’ The solution to overkill is not underkill; it’s moderation. And children fare much better with a well formed conscience than when allowed to form their ‘own’ decisions about what is appropriate. I would much rather a daughter of mine be worried because she’d lost her mantilla than think it’s okay to wear a Britney Spears outfit to Mass.

I’m a Jersey Girl-sarcasm is in our genetic makeup…

I just think we’re focusing on the wrong things here. The clothing issues border on the obsessive. Sure, it would be nice if we never had to look at people who were dressed in a way that we feel is inappropriate or just plain ugly, but I still would rather see the britney wanna-be at mass than at the mall. When I see them, I always hope that the grace they receive will lead them to understand that they are more than what they wear and how they look.

 

[westboro]

I’m a Jersey Girl-sarcasm is in our genetic makeup…

I just think we’re focusing on the wrong things here. The clothing issues border on the obsessive. Sure, it would be nice if we never had to look at people who were dressed in a way that we feel is inappropriate or just plain ugly, but I still would rather see the britney wanna-be at mass than at the mall. When I see them, I always hope that the grace they receive will lead them to understand that they are more than what they wear and how they look.

Actually, they would be better off at the mall than to commit the serious sin of scandal at mass. Now…if they ‘knew’ they were doing this and still wanted to attend mass, that is a different story. What they need is to be informed! All the ‘hope’ in the world isn’t going to amount to anything, unless some enlightenment takes place!. People who are not interested in receiving grace…don’t receive it. God ‘invites’ everyone to the banquet but expects those who are not properly dressed to be thrown out. (As the parable goes).

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I

still would rather see the britney wanna-be at mass than at the mall. When I see them, I always hope that the grace they receive will lead them to understand that they are more than what they wear and how they look.

And I understand why you feel this way as a Christian. . .

But here’s the thing.

We have to realize, I think, that the type of immodesty that is prevailing in clothes, in language, in actions and attitudes, and is permeating society today, shows its **symptoms **in those clothes, etc.

The root cause is more ‘important’ than the dress, true. . .but in order to treat that root cause, we also have to treat the symptoms.

While it’s always best to effect change from the ‘inside out’ . . .to have people ‘realize’ internally and then ‘change externally’ . . .sometimes you have to work from the outside in.

When you’ve had 40 years of deconstruction, and when the symptoms are as bad as they are --you need both ‘inner’ and ‘outer’ treatments.

Well, we’ve got the ‘inner’ in that even the poll shows that more people do think that there is a problem and would like to take action themselves or see actions done to help deal with the problem.

So now, for a while, we might need some ‘outer’ help. We might need. . .for a while. . .the dress codes, the bulletin reminders, the enforcements.

Because the pendulum has swung SO FAR to the ‘laissez faire --it doesn’t matter how I ‘look’, I do what I please’ . . .

Trying to swing the pendulum back to the MIDDLE is going to seem much more of a change than it really is.

You’ll have people arguing that we’re going to do a 180 and go ‘to burkhas’. . .when in reality we are going to do a ‘90’ and go back to ‘normalcy’. Not the extreme of immodesty or to the extreme of total ‘seclusion’ as the Muslims. . .but to the center of modesty–normal, natural, human modesty.

 

[mom4truth]

Tantum ergo,

AMEN! Very well explained. I’m with you on this one - all the way! God help us all.

 

[Fitswimmer]

wow…just wow…people here would really rather see our young people at the mall than at mass because of their clothing.

I just don’t know what else to say. This place really makes me sad sometimes.

 

[mom4truth]

I think that most people who dress skimpily know exactly what they’re doing. That isn’t rocket science. If they’re consciously choosing to dress that way - why wouldn’t they have enough common sense to not dress that way for Mass? We need to quit making excuses for those who have the brains to know what’s modest and what’s not.

 

[westboro]

wow…just wow…people here would really rather see our young people at the mall than at mass because of their clothing.

I just don’t know what else to say. This place really makes me sad sometimes.

Please don’t miss-quote me!!! I did not say that I would rather see them at the mall. I said they would be ‘better off’ at the mall than committing the serious sin of scandal at mass. The truth is that they would have a better chance to get to heaven by NOT scandalising others at mass if they insist on dressing like Britney wannabes. Heaven is NOT automatic as so many people are thinking these days. There*** is*** a hell and it is much easier to go there than it is to get to heaven. If we REALLY care about these young people, we will enlighten them on what they are doing. If we DON’T do anything to correct the situation, their sin becomes our sin! These are the teachings of the Catholic Church, by the way!

 

[HisGrace]

You’ve got to be kidding! Don’t you think Catholics have enough rules to try and remember. Wow try and clear through some of the cobwebs. Jesus sends a clear and simple message to the point, “Love one another as I have loved you.” Once you see that Jesus is more concerned about you following him that the clothes you wear, you will see how rediculous it is to even care about what others are wearing or not. If we lived in the garden of Eden, we would be wearing a fig leaf!! I don’t think he even cares if we came in our birthday suit -----as long as we were seeking HIM. So stop wasting your time on things that take your time away from important matters like maybe being concerned if that teenager has been running with a bad crowd and might get addicted to drugs or get pregnant. And please where your flip flops so the kid might think you are on his level and trust you. Come on where is the wisdom.
I don’t mean to sound so harsh but come on lets help God do His job and not sound like a bunch of pecking hens.

 

[Fitswimmer]

You’ve got to be kidding! Don’t you think Catholics have enough rules to try and remember. Wow try and clear through some of the cobwebs. Jesus sends a clear and simple message to the point, “Love one another as I have loved you.” Once you see that Jesus is more concerned about you following him that the clothes you wear, you will see how rediculous it is to even care about what others are wearing or not. If we lived in the garden of Eden, we would be wearing a fig leaf!! I don’t think he even cares if we came in our birthday suit -----as long as we were seeking HIM. So stop wasting your time on things that take your time away from important matters like maybe being concerned if that teenager has been running with a bad crowd and might get addicted to drugs or get pregnant. And please where your flip flops so the kid might think you are on his level and trust you. Come on where is the wisdom.
I don’t mean to sound so harsh but come on lets help God do His job and not sound like a bunch of pecking hens.

Just when I think common sense has left the building…Thank you!!!

 

[pray4peace]

I think if the dress in church is so indecent or in bad taste, that one should let the priest know so he can address the parishoners before or after Mass, in the bulletin, CCD classes, and notes to parents on what is proper for their children to wear at Mass.
Maybe we need a sign outside the church entrance that lists things that one should not enter the church wearing out of respect for the Lord.

Blessings

 

[HisGrace]

The sign should read, "All Sinners STAY OUT" especially if you are wearing flip flops or should I dare say, thongs. Oops

 

[Fitswimmer]

The sign should read, "All Sinners STAY OUT" especially if you are wearing flip flops or should I dare say, thongs. Oops

Oh yes, because we all know that only immoral people would wear anything other than dresses down to their ankles with sleeves to their wrists. We can know the state of a person’s soul merely by looking at their clothing!

 

[mom4truth]

HisGrace,

I don’t think you’re looking at the bigger picture which has already been discussed to death in this thread. We are not in the Garden of Eden now, so we cannot wear fig leaves. We don’t live in Africa where they (in some remote parts) do not wear much clothing (according to their culture). We live in the west. MOST people are not stupid. Most people know that attending Mass should be a holy thing. It SHOULD be a place to worship Jesus and to witness to others that we care about how we AFFECT other people, i.e., our dress, our demeanor, etc. That’s the bottom line. Unless a person has mental issues, that’s a different story, or if the person is poor - again - a different story. For the general public - just cover yourself appropriately.

 

[pray4peace]

We are all sinners, so no one could enter then?