Should There Be an Inquisition for the Pope?

[seekerz]

So you believe that priests are trapped with young boys 24/7? You are very selective in your credulity. If it makes you feel better to believe that “availability” is the culprit, go ahead. But the evidence points to homosexuality, oops, I mean “sexual orientation”.

No doubt, the pedophilia experts at the NYT would agree with you.

One more ‘authoritative’ voice who, lacking evidence for his claims, attacks the responding poster. I learned debating skills at my Catholic school and those strategies do not impede my contributions to a discussion thread. I’m used to it by now. If the theory holds water, showing the supporting statistics would serve the discussion than casting barbs at me.

I asked simple questions: what is the age cut-off for “prepubescent” boys, what was the opportunity to molest kids of either sex. Numbers can say anything you want them to say so a rational look at all factors and not just bare numbers is a must for any intelligent analysis of data.

Otherwise our arguments would look something like this: All women who developed cervical cancer once wore a diaper therefore diapers cause cervical cancer and should be outlawed…

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

One more ‘authoritative’ voice who, lacking evidence for his claims, attacks the responding poster. I learned debating skills at my Catholic school and those strategies do not impede my contributions to a discussion thread. I’m used to it by now. If the theory holds water, showing the supporting statistics would serve the discussion than casting barbs at me.

Apparently what you learned was how to play a victim card in place of evaluting the evidence on hand. One can always demand more evidence, that’s a debating tactic born of intellectual cowardice. If I show the statistics then you claim that correlation is not causation. If I show an experimental study then you claim that the laborotry is not real life. Yawn.

Meanwhile, in the real world, we make the best use of the evidence available and that evidence points in a particular direction: homosexuality.

I asked simple questions: what is the age cut-off for “prepubescent” boys, what was the opportunity to molest kids of either sex. Numbers can say anything you want them to say so a rational look at all factors and not just bare numbers is a must for any intelligent analysis of data.

While that’s a perfectly valid question it is certainly not the entirety of your objection nor is it necessary to evaluate the evidence.

If you want to dig up more evidence on the issue, be my guest. Nobody is standing in your way.

 

[seekerz]

Apparently what you learned was how to play a victim card in place of evaluting the evidence on hand. One can always demand more evidence, that’s a debating tactic born of intellectual cowardice. If I show the statistics then you claim that correlation is not causation. If I show an experimental study then you claim that the laborotry is not real life. Yawn.

Meanwhile, in the real world, we make the best use of the evidence available and that evidence points in a particular direction: homosexuality.

While that’s a perfectly valid question it is certainly not the entirety of your objection nor is it necessary to evaluate the evidence.

If you want to dig up more evidence on the issue, be my guest. Nobody is standing in your way.

Did I understand you to say that it’s not necessary to evaluate the evidence? Don’t want to misinterpret what you’re saying.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Did I understand you to say that it’s not necessary to evaluate the evidence?

You obviously did not understand. I said it was not necessary to pursue 100% certainty in order to draw reasonable conclusions from the evidence available.

 

[Ecoclimber]

Not to :slapfight: but ABC news published a report that statistically detailed that the percentage of homosexuals in the priesthood was higher than in general society. The argument is not with secular society as it is expected to have large numbers of homosexuals and sexual abuse. The problem is that is shouldn’t be in the CC especially among the priesthood who are Christ’s representatives on earth. Even the ecclesiastical hierarchy of the Catholic Church acknowledges its wrongdoing and a need for repentance and reform. This is not just a US phenomena but a world wide phenomena within the CC and until this plague is scoured from within, the crisis will continue.

newser.com/article/d9eptsp01/austria-cardinal-acknowledges-church-guilt-in-abuse-scandal-thanks-victims-for-coming-forward.html
**Austria cardinal acknowledges church guilt in abuse scandal, thanks victims for coming forward **

During a somber service in Vienna’s famous St. Stephen’s Cathedral, Christoph Schoenborn, a close confidante of Pope Benedict XVI, also thanked victims for breaking their silence.Amid much media attention and an audience of about 3,000 people, Schoenborn said some in the church took advantage and destroyed the trust of children, were sexually violent and considered the image of the church most important. The strong language was contained in a confession he read together with Veronika Prueller-Jagenteufel, a theologian. We, God’s people, his church, together carry this guilt," they said in unison after taking turns reading separate sections.

Just a side note: several years earlier, the church was rocked by the discovery of up to 40,000 lurid images at a seminary in St. Poelten, 50 miles (80 kilometers) west of Vienna, including child porn and photos of young candidates for the priesthood fondling each other and their older religious instructors.

Catholic Apologist Dr. Robert Sungenis examines this issue on the extent of homosexuality within the Catholic Church from his website CAI
catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/homosexual-priests2.htm

 

[irishpatrick]

Straight men are NOT attracted (in any way) to other men, or to teenage boys. That is simply a fact. Women are more plastic regarding gender, so perhaps that is why some women cannot grasp this reality. The bottom line is straight men are NOT turned-on by males.

The actual cases of true pedophilia in the sexual abuse scandal is very low! That is a fact, not a guess. The vast majority of victims were not prepubescent boys.

 

[seekerz]

You obviously did not understand. I said it was not necessary to pursue 100% certainty in order to draw reasonable conclusions.

Fair enough, I misunderstood. The theory was based on statistics which were not presented. Any good scientific study will consider all potential confounding factors and correct for them. I see opportunity as an important aspect to consider.

Whether I prefer apples or oranges cannot really be determined by looking at subjects’ daily diet alone, if apples are available everyday and oranges only at Christmas. You have to show that given equal opportunity to eat either apples or oranges, the subjects will chose one or the other X percent of the time.

That’s the way it is done and I see no indication that it has been done with the data in this case (it may have been but this is not addressed in the article).

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Fair enough, I misunderstood. The theory was based on statistics which were not presented. Any good scientific study will consider all potential confounding factors and correct for them. I see opportunity as an important aspect to consider.

And it would be entirely prudent to pursue better data and analysis but, in the end, comrpomises are always made in even the best designed scientific studies, especially those involving people.

I suppose we could design a “perfect” experiment that entails exposing equal numbers of girls and boys to priests (and non-priests, for a control group, without identifying the priestly status or their “secual preference” to the observers behind the two-way mirror, of course) to see how the numbers stack up in an experimental setting.

 

[irishpatrick]

Fair enough, I misunderstood. The theory was based on statistics which were not presented. Any good scientific study will consider all potential confounding factors and correct for them. I see opportunity as an important aspect to consider.

Whether I prefer apples or oranges cannot really be determined by looking at subjects’ daily diet alone, if apples are available everyday and oranges only at Christmas. You have to show that given equal opportunity to eat either apples or oranges, the subjects will chose one or the other X percent of the time.

That’s the way it is done and I see no indication that it has been done with the data in this case (it may have been but this is not addressed in the article).

Opportunity in this situation can only be valid if the Priests were homosexuals. Since the overwhelming number of cases were not against prepubescent boys, that means that the sexual activity was homsexual in nature and straight men simply do not do that. I think that opportunity caused less than one-percent of one-percent of these cases.

 

[hawkeye]

It sells newspapers, doesn’t have to be the truth, some of it is, and some of it isn’t, give it a good old stir in the pot, and print it in a newspaper, TRUTH, LIES,and Hear-say, and TRIAL by Media.

As we say in Ireland, " It’s a long road that doesn’t have a turn in it. "

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

It sells newspapers, doesn’t have to be the truth, some of it is, and some of it isn’t, give it a good old stir in the pot, and print it in a newspaper, TRUTH, LIES,and Hear-say, and TRIAL by Media.

As we say in Ireland, " It’s a long road that doesn’t have a turn in it. "

HA… my Irish granddad use to say ‘stirring the pot’ all the time.

 

[Zatzat]

The bottom line is straight men are NOT turned-on by males.

Unless they’re in jail for great lengths of time.

 

[hawkeye]

HA… my Irish granddad use to say ‘stirring the pot’ all the time.

Yes, " stir the pot, prize the spuds " off-coarse here a bit, anyway I’m sure the media is grateful for all this scandal, it doesn’t have to be the truth $$$$$$$ £££££££

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

Yes, " stir the pot, prize the spuds " off-coarse here a bit, anyway I’m sure the media is grateful for all this scandal, it doesn’t have to be the truth $$$$$$$ £££££££

God, I love the Irish!!

 

[seekerz]

And it would be entirely prudent to pursue better data and analysis but, in the end, comrpomises are always made in even the best designed scientific studies, especially those involving people.

I suppose we could design a “perfect” experiment that entails exposing equal numbers of girls and boys to priests (and non-priests, for a control group, without identifying the priestly status or their “secual preference” to the observers behind the two-way mirror, of course) to see how the numbers stack up in an experimental setting.

That would not be practical. It would have to be a retrospective study (looking back) but structured to account for setting in which the abuse took place. For example, one might expect equal opportunity for such incidents at catechism classes so one could look at incidents reported in association with such classes. Alternatively, one could simply compensate mathematically for the decreased opportunity to encounter little girls alone and look at all the data (data we already have in the records).

I’m no statistician but these types of calculations and analyses can be made.

 

[maggiemay2u]

Unless they’re in jail for great lengths of time.

source?

 

[Zatzat]

source?

narth.com/docs/inmates.html

December 13, 2005 - A study published in Psychological Services (2005, Vol. 2, No. 2, 151-162) reveals that prisoners’ attitudes and behaviors about same-sex acts change the longer they are incarcerated.

The study, conducted by Texas Tech University researchers J. Travis Garland, Robert D. Morgan, and Amanda M. Beer, was based upon surveys of the sexual attitudes of 185 male prisoners in minimum and maximum security prisons.

The study also found that those serving shorter prison sentences were more likely to maintain a heterosexual orientation. “…however, inmates currently serving a longer sentence experience a significant shift toward a sexual preference for the same sex,” note the authors.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

That would not be practical. It would have to be a retrospective study (looking back) but structured to account for setting in which the abuse took place. For example, one might expect equal opportunity for such incidents at catechism classes so one could look at incidents reported in association with such classes. Alternatively, one could simply compensate mathematically for the decreased opportunity to encounter little girls alone and look at all the data (data we already have in the records). I’m no statistician but these types of calculations and analyses can be made.

All retrospective analyses risk confounding correlation and causation. The best that statistical analysis can do is eliminate particular non-causal correlations (e.g. time-lag analysis).

 

[seekerz]

Opportunity in this situation can only be valid if the Priests were homosexuals. Since the overwhelming number of cases were not against prepubescent boys, that means that the sexual activity was homsexual in nature and straight men simply do not do that. I think that opportunity caused less than one-percent of one-percent of these cases.

No idea what you mean. Just repeating some talking points without real analysis is hardly helpful.

For example, how did you come to your estimate of 1% being caused by opportunity?

As for what straight men do, this is probably not the best forum for discussing that…