Should traditions of religious life be allowed to influence parish life?

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  1. I never claimed as much. However, I am realistic in the sense that I think it is better to be cautious because the Religious life and parish life are sufficiently different for there to reasonably be differences in prudent practices for both.
As Br. Jay said- there is no “secular spirituality”, secular priests follow Christian spirituality and one may prefer one school over another. To be honest, I think you are looking for something (a "secular spirituality’) that does not exsist.
This should not be an “us vs. them” thing, it should be about building up the kingdom, however that is accomplished.
 
As Br. Jay said- there is no “secular spirituality”, secular priests follow Christian spirituality and one may prefer one school over another. To be honest, I think you are looking for something (a "secular spirituality’) that does not exsist.
This should not be an “us vs. them” thing, it should be about building up the kingdom, however that is accomplished.
Secular priests are like every other secular Catholic. Some are very Marian, Franciscan, Jesuit, Benedictine, Carmelite, Salesian, etc etc.

For example, I can’t remember his name, the founder of Boys Town. He was a secular priest. But if one looks at his life and work, it’s almost a duplicate of St. John Bosco. St. John Bosco was Salesian.

If we look at Fr. Michael McGivney, the founder of the Knights of Columbus and his work for poor families, it’s very similar to that of the Franciscans.

Look at Arbishop Fulton Sheen. He’s very Dominican.

The reason that men become secular priests and join a diocese is because they don’t feel called to any single school of spirituality. They take from more than one at a time. Often they change as they grow older. The parishes they run are going to reflect the pastor’s spirituality. The pastor is going to bring it to work with him.

There is only one spirituality, that is Christian Spirituality. The different schools stress different aspects of Christian Spirituality. As I said before, spirituality is not mute. It speaks. How does it speak? Through customs, symbols, music, art, architecture, even the work that we do.

It’s supposed to speak. The religious is supposed to be the salt of the earth. That’s his vocation. Do you want to live in a Church that has no salt?

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
 
It’s supposed to speak. The religious is supposed to be the salt of the earth. That’s his vocation. Do you want to live in a Church that has no salt?

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
As a chef, I can say that would make for a very bland diet!! 😦

So, I say, PASS THE SHAKER!! 😃
 
Would that shaker be hermit, monastic, mendicant, clerk regular, or canon regular? 😃

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV
Me, I am “clerk regular” girl who appreciates a “mendicant” twist of the “Franciscan” variety!

AMDG!! 😃
 
It’s supposed to speak. The religious is supposed to be the salt of the earth. That’s his vocation. Do you want to live in a Church that has no salt?

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
Aren’t we all called to be the salt of the earth?

Anyway, here is an example of the topic of this thread. Let’s say we are discussing standing around the altar holding hands during mass - laity and clergy. And let’s say that was something that was never seen in parishes before. And suppose people are unhappy about it and decry it as an innovation.

It wouldn’t make sense to say well, such and such order has held mass this way for 1000 years.

The obvious answer would be “that’s nice”, but what does that have to do with innovations that are currently happening in parishes.* Are they trying to emulate this order, or are they just trying to foster relationships between people at the mass and so has added, what is an innovation in parishes, even if not for such and such order?

See what I’m saying?
 
Aren’t we all called to be the salt of the earth?

Anyway, here is an example of the topic of this thread. Let’s say we are discussing standing around the altar holding hands during mass - laity and clergy. And let’s say that was something that was never seen in parishes before. And suppose people are unhappy about it and decry it as an innovation.

It wouldn’t make sense to say well, such and such order has held mass this way for 1000 years.

The obvious answer would be “that’s nice”, but what does that have to do with innovations that are currently happening in parishes.* Are they trying to emulate this order, or are they just trying to foster relationships between people at the mass and so has added, what is an innovation in parishes, even if not for such and such order?

See what I’m saying?
I see what you’re saying and the answer is that it could be either

a) they’re adopting a practice from a religious order because of its meaning, which is legitimate, even if the parishioners don’t like it.

b) they’re being creative, by adopting something from a religious order because it’s new and different, which is not a legitimate reason for doing so.

It’s hard to answer, which one it is, unless one knows the mind of the person introducing the custom. It may be one of those “creative” types, which does not lend legitimacy to the adoption. However, it can also be a pastor or priest who has a special fondness for a particular religious school, which has all the legitimacy in the world.

This takes us back to the “salt of the earth” statement. The Church has officially assigned that mission to religious orders. What religious do is meant to be for all, which translates into, all should be the salt of the earth. What is different about the religious that only he or she can do, is that only he or she can be salt of the earth to the degree that he becomes an eschatological sign. Only the religious can be a sign of things to come. If we’re using the salt metaphor, a way to understand it would be that the religious adds an intensity that no one else can add. No one else has the grace of consecration. Bl. John Paul goes on and one about this for pages in Vita Consecrata. Pefectae Caritatis speaks about it briefly. Both are trying to go further into doctrine that the Council of Trent tried to explain, but which has been around for centuries. In other words, the Council Fathers didn’t suddenly discover it. It was more like everyone believed it, but no one had put it into words until Trent.

Going back to the example that you gave, let’s say that Father is truly moved by Cistercian spirituality, which is a legitimate and honorable school of spirituality, then we can say that the Cistercians have added flavor to Father’s life and to the Church. Father is taking what the Holy Spirit gave to the Church, through the Cistercians, out into the world. The gift was meant for the world. The Cistercians are being salt and Father is carrying the salt with him to his assignment. Next year he makes a retreat at a Carmelite house and the Holy Spirit attracts his attention to something in the Carmelite school that is meaningful. Father will take that gift with him too his assignment and add it to the Cistercian gift that he brought before.

I guess that’s the beauty of being a diocesan priest. You can pick up and blend pieces from different schools of spirituality, because as a secular Catholic, you’re not boxed in to one school.

For example, a Franciscan wearing a crucifix would look ridiculous. A Redemptorist wearing a crucifix looks very normal. Why? Franciscan men have a devotion to the cross, not to the crucifix. Redemptorist men have a devotion to the crucifix, not to the cross. That’s what I mean by being boxed in.

Father and the parishioners have to understand that it’s a gift, not a command. If it is used, it is legitimate… If it is laid aside, it is also legitimate to do so. The gift will do what it’s supposed to do when it is introduced with good catechesis. Otherwise, it’s a pastoral disaster.

Do most people know about the tabernacle, stations of the cross, Christmas creche, passion play, Christmas pageant, plain chant or hymns in the vernacular? Most people accept these things as Catholic and some think that it’s universally Catholic. WRONG! They’re all of Franciscan origin. The Church adopted them, just like the 15 decade rosary. The Dominicans introduced it and most Catholics adopted it. But there are rosaries with less decades, not as well known.

That’s how you carry over from the religious communities into the secular side of the Church. It’s done for the same reason as it’s done in the religious school and it’s done in a way that most people understand it. I say most, because it’s never going to be everyone. Some people will always say, “Tell me again why we’re doing this?” Trust me, it has happened to me many times.

I remember when the FFV started to work in pregnancy centers that have traditionally been run by diocesan priests and lay people. We introduced St. Maximilian Kolbe and the novena to St. Max in August. St. Max is Franciscan and the patron saint of pro-life workers. Five-years later, I’m still hearing, “Why do we pray the novena to St. Max?” Except that now, the answer comes in chorus, because the diocesan priests, deacons and other lay people know the answer. BECAUSE HE’S THE PATRON OF PRO LIFE AND A FRANCISCAN!!!. 😃

Some people are just going to forget or not get it in the first place. 🤷

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
This takes us back to the “salt of the earth” statement. The Church has officially assigned that mission to religious orders.]
Thanks for letting me know this. I have not come across this yet in my studies.
 
Thanks for letting me know this. I have not come across this yet in my studies.
It’s not really the kind of statement that the average lay person would run into unless he or she is into reading documents and letters that the Holy See and the councils write specifically to religious.

For better or for worse, in the sense that I’m not sure if it’s a good thing or not, the Vatican has always compartamentalize its communication. I guess when speaking to a community as large as the Catholic community, it’s much easier to speak to one group at a time, except when it concerns everyone. Just my thoughts.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
It’s not really the kind of statement that the average lay person would run into unless he or she is into reading documents and letters that the Holy See and the councils write specifically to religious.

For better or for worse, in the sense that I’m not sure if it’s a good thing or not, the Vatican has always compartamentalize its communication. I guess when speaking to a community as large as the Catholic community, it’s much easier to speak to one group at a time, except when it concerns everyone. Just my thoughts.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
It’s part of our history. There’s probably some ethnic content to some of it too. I mean Polish parishes might have different customs and devotions than German ones for instance or French ones. The Church has always used the things and symbols that it can find to teach the people their faith.

There is a lot about Christmas, for instance, that has borrowed roots, and yet parish Catholics (and the rest of the world!) use all of these Christmas things and think they’re Christian or that they invented them. The tree, for instance, started out as a pagan thing too difficult to just remove from the popular pagan mindset in Northern Europe, so we gave it a Christian meaning by putting lights & symbols on it and a star on top of it. Viola. It represents the light of Christ come to the world in the darkness. This is a very, very Catholic thing to do.

Another thing we borrowed: some of the oldest churches in Rome are remodeled homes, pagan temples and markets. A little later, we made our own with old Roman pieces and parts–columns and things that don’t match. 😛 These are my favorite churches in Rome! Some of them are built smack on top of pagan temples which is symbolic of us replacing them. We still have ideas about what churches are supposed to look like from these buildings.

So it is only natural that when our religious orders come up with a great symbol, that speaks to us out of their devotion and their knowledge of God, that we might want to adopt it too, as a teaching device or as a devotional device. This is how we get these things like the rosary or chant or the stations of the cross. We pick them up to teach or use as devotions.

There’s nothing wrong with this as long as we do it for the right reason, as Br. JR talks about above. It’s not for novelty or for selling as a commodity in a secular world. It’s for devotion and worship and understanding the Catholic faith.

If we didn’t have these things, Christianity wouldn’t look like much of anything. It’d be pretty bare.
 
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