Should We Ask My In-Laws to Pay For This?

[pensmama87]

The thing is, if we were in reversed positions, I would probably have offered to pay for it. I don’t blame my in-laws for not offering, but when I’ve been in similar situations (admittedly none this costly) I’ve offered to pay even when not completely at fault. Sometimes that help has been accepted, other times not.

(I now expect this to be used as further evidence that I just “chose to be poor.” )

 

[pensmama87]

Perfect! My opinion is,since they didn’t offer to help initially,they aren’t inclined to do so.However,this is a good way to reach out for help from them without the request seeming accusatory.

Right. As I said earlier in the thread, even if it was appropriate to ask based on “responsibility,” it would not have been mentioned.

Since I’ve found out such is inappropriate, then all the more reason to avoid any designation of blame.

 

[Xantippe]

Most are very aware and just think it’s time to own up and make do. That’s what grown ups are supposed to do in life. You either make the best of things or you find your own way to make improvements but to be upset with someone for breaking something already broken or expecting them to fix something already broken is ridiculous. Most people do not have inlaws or parents to bail us out and we still manage to make life work. This is a situation that there are plenty of options. One of them is just managing with one door instead of two. Another is fix it yourself at a fraction of the price. Another is to ask for help. I had only one door so it was a safety issue not having that door working properly for any amount of time, but until recently all vans only had one door and it seems most mamas made do just fine. Even those of us with bad backs and other issues. Somehow you can find many solutions to annoyances or worse if you stand back and observe for a little bit.

Asking for money or expecting help is an epidemic in this world and many if not most family issues are money related. Feelings get hurt when people ask for financial help, particularly if they are begged and pestered over things they “ought” to be doing. It’s not a road a vulnerable new mom in financial hardship should go down because what if life requires assistance with a real need later on and relationships are damaged over the silly annoyance of a van door? There is another door that works just fine. Her husband is the cause of the door problem, not father in law. If I was the inlaws I would be angry if I was blamed for breaking an already broken door, but if I was asked to help because there was a financial need, I would happily do what I could as long as I wasn’t being unfairly pointed at as the cause of the situation.

I think I’ve actually literally never since getting married asked my parents or in-laws for anything at all, whether goods or services (beyond “pass the potatoes” or “could you hold the baby while I pump?”). I grew up in a poorer WASP family and married into a better-off Catholic ethnic family. I was very, very, very proud as a newlywed, and I actually felt rather offended when my FIL sent us checks from time to time. But my attitude as changed a lot since then–I’m much more pragmatic than I used to be and less proud. For one thing, it’s not all about me and my feelings anymore–we have kids, and they need stuff. The time hasn’t come yet (and hopefully it will never come), but if my kids genuinely needed something, I would suck it up and have my husband ask my in-laws, and it would be the right thing to do.

It all depends on the actual situation and family dynamics, of course. I believe, for instance, that pensmama87’s husband is an only child and that his parents are reasonably well-off, so that enters into the calculation. Also, family cultures vary–in many families, it would be regarded as offensive or hurtful not to inform older family members about serious material needs. My in-laws would feel that way, and I can imagine feeling at least a little the same way down the road, when our children are grown and have families of their own.

You’re quite right that any help should be asked for, rather than demanded.

 

[Convert_in_99]

The thing is, if we were in reversed positions, I would probably have offered to pay for it. I don’t blame my in-laws for not offering, but when I’ve been in similar situations (admittedly none this costly) I’ve offered to pay even when not completely at fault. Sometimes that help has been accepted, other times not.

Yeah, sometimes it’s just the thought that counts. :console: He probably just wasn’t thinking straight…or forgot.

(I now expect this to be used as further evidence that I just “chose to be poor.” )

Yes those comments were extremely uncharitable and uncalled for. You should never just assume every one is financially stable or in the same boat you are. I, too, know the pinch of poverty. And we don’t have the aditional costs of raising three kids on top of it! :console:

 

[EasterJoy]

The thing is, if we were in reversed positions, I would probably have offered to pay for it. I don’t blame my in-laws for not offering, but when I’ve been in similar situations (admittedly none this costly) I’ve offered to pay even when not completely at fault. Sometimes that help has been accepted, other times not.

(I now expect this to be used as further evidence that I just “chose to be poor.” )

Well, you chose to offer to pay in those cases, but that doesn’t mean you’d appreciate *being told you owe *in all those cases in which you offered to pay, right? It is one thing to offer help or to offer to make amends, and quite another to have someone demand you pony up, just as it is different to apologize and offer restitution than it is to be accused, convicted, and told your punishment without any chance for self-defense.

If you are tight on cash, you can ask for some money to get the fix done if you don’t have it right now. If your dad says, “let me pay for it, I broke it,” you can say: “no, it was already broken, but we were limping along with it hoping we could get it to last awhile longer. We knew it would give out eventually, and it happened to give out on you.” Now, if he wants to insist that it would have lasted, he forced it, and he has the money to pay, that’s something the two of you ought to work out. By assuming that the repair is yours to pay for, however, you are making it clear that you realize you broke it, that it was primed to break sooner than its time, and that it is the primary cause for the breakage and not the precipitation cause that deserves the greater share of the responsibility for it. In that way, if he pays it will be an act of largess, as your instances of willingness to pay have been, and not a capitulation to your unilateral verdict against him.

 

[fencersmother]

I am sorry for the financial situation our Pensmama finds herself in these days. It’s indeed difficult raising families now (not ever easy, I suspect).

For the record, we had all our children with no health insurance (including pre-mature twins, and a child who died at four months) - and our entire married lives have had only one wage earner. We would have repaired the van and sold it, forgoing a car if necessary (we didn’t have a second car till we were married 18 years, and the car we owned had well over 100K on it when we bought it).

So, ok, they’ve got some financial issues now. If grandma & grandpa say, “Hey, how about we just give you some cash this year?” Great! Put it toward repairs. If not, well, how often do you really need to go out? Mass on Sunday. Grocery store once a week. Maybe a trip to the park (combined with either of those above). Other than that - stay at home mom just took on a deeper meaning.

My husband is in a field which has been in depression, not recession, since 2007, and we are living on the same income we had in 1986. Our belts are already tightened, and in our last storm, our roof blew off and is leaking. My BIL went up on it with my husband to assess damage and in a soft spot, where the damage was, his foot went through, causing more damage. We would never have asked him to pay for it.

Pensmama - been in your shoes and it is often not much fun. May I suggest you check out at your local library The Tightwad Gazette, written by a woman with six children, one income. There were three or four years of this little gem, published oh 20 years ago or so, with tons of ideas about how to really save some money, even when/where you don’t think you can. The year our income was less than $10K, we were able to have presents on birthdays, and food on the table for every meal - and we were happy!

 

[pensmama87]

Yeah, sometimes it’s just the thought that counts. :console: He probably just wasn’t thinking straight…or forgot.

Yes those comments were extremely uncharitable and uncalled for. You should never just assume every one is financially stable or in the same boat you are. I, too, know the pinch of poverty. And we don’t have the aditional costs of raising three kids on top of it! :console:

I will absolutely admit that I had little financial knowledge in my late teens and early twenties. I took out too many loans in the hope that I would be full-time employed, which in the past six years amounted to five months with a salary, and a bunch of part-time jobs, often more than one, and then a business run out of my home. I had one offer for another full time position - more than 50% travel and not nearly enough to justify two kids in daycare.

The idea that I’ve just chosen this as my lot in life is ludicrous. I’ve been trying to get out of it forever, and never on someone else’s dime.

 

[Xantippe]

As a grandma, if I got in my daughter’s van and further broke her door that was already broken and then was blamed and asked to pay for it…I’d be furious. Seriously this would be bad. First of all, whether or not I have the money is not her business. Secondly, if I was in her van I was probably helping her in some way. And many times I pick up the tab when we go to Target or whatever. It’s not like I’m not generous. But I do smell a sense of entitlement here.

And the golden rule is different for each situation. If she asked me for a loan so they could fix the door, I’d be fine with that. I might even just pay for it as a gift. But saying I broke it and asking me to pay makes for a very unpleasant Thanksgiving dinner.

Also, the OP lives a lifestyle that she has chosen. And that is to be frugal and pay off debt and stay home with her children, which I very much respect. It’s just that when you live this close to the financial edge, you need to know it’s not up to other people to bail you out. You make do with what you have until you get more or you make some changes.

Lastly, I do think to have a ‘fix the door fund’ for Christmas is a great idea. That way if the in-laws want to contribute or not is fine. No one has hurt feelings.

I know a number of people have mentioned the loan idea and it might work out for some people, but I could never, never, never do that. As Dave Ramsey says, Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you owe your father-in-law money and “the borrower is the slave to the lender” (Proverbs 22:7).

I would do more or less anything else that was moral to avoid borrowing from family.

 

[EasterJoy]

I know a number of people have mentioned the loan idea and it might work out for some people, but I could never, never, never do that. As Dave Ramsey says, Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you owe your father-in-law money and “the borrower is the slave to the lender” (Proverbs 22:7).

I would do more or less anything else that was moral to avoid borrowing from family.

That is great, but beggars can’t be choosers. The door has to be fixed, and it could be quite expensive to have it done. If you are as dependable as you are ready to depend on others and if your debts were incurred out of true need, it is no shame to owe someone with more wealth than you have. (There is a reason it will be difficult for the rich to gain the Kingdom of God. Recognizing that even material control over great wealth does not relieve us of our poverty and need of others is one.)

As for being a ‘slave’ to a lender, yes, it is better to be a slave only out of love, but we cannot hold back from being beholden to others: …whoever wishes to be first among you will be the slave of all, for the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many." Mark 10:44-45

 

[Xantippe]

The thing is, if we were in reversed positions, I would probably have offered to pay for it. I don’t blame my in-laws for not offering, but when I’ve been in similar situations (admittedly none this costly) I’ve offered to pay even when not completely at fault. Sometimes that help has been accepted, other times not.

(I now expect this to be used as further evidence that I just “chose to be poor.” )

I think it’s actually natural in some ways to be prouder when poor and less proud when not poor.

I’ve certainly gotten less and less proud the better off we’ve gotten.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I will absolutely admit that I had little financial knowledge in my late teens and early twenties. I took out too many loans in the hope that I would be full-time employed, which in the past six years amounted to five months with a salary, and a bunch of part-time jobs, often more than one, and then a business run out of my home. I had one offer for another full time position - more than 50% travel and not nearly enough to justify two kids in daycare.

The idea that I’ve just chosen this as my lot in life is ludicrous. I’ve been trying to get out of it forever, and never on someone else’s dime.

We are also seemingly forever in debt. Student loan is the worst. I don’t think we are making any real progress on that. It didn’t help my husband get a job where he could afford to pay it back either.

I’m sorry the comments were made. I really don’t think they meant to hurt you. But it’s still hard to hear I’m sure

 

[EasterJoy]

I think it’s actually natural in some ways to be prouder when poor and less proud when not poor.

I’ve certainly gotten less and less proud the better off we’ve gotten.

It is praiseworthy not to take advantage of the wealth of others, and if that is what Ramsey is talking about, I agree. It is hard to sit at table with someone you feel you’re taking advantage of because you have availed yourself of their wealth without the need to do it. The sting of being around a lender who loaned to you because you needed to borrow, however? That is pride.

 

[bitterhope]

Why would someone say you chose to be poor? Because you have beautiful sons and you stay home with them? Is that what people have said to you? That’s just wrong. Or is it because you live within your means instead of living off credit? (To me that’s a smart choice.) But hey, if you do “choose to be poor” that puts you in the same company as Pope Francis, nuns and other religious that take a vow of poverty. Turn that into a positive in your mind and not a negative. It’s no one’s business. I know it’s hard making ends meet on a limited budget, but you are doing it everyday. Don’t let little setbacks overwhelm you and allow doom and gloom trickle in. Look at your little ones and see the blessings God has sent your way and remind yourself you are richer in the important things than many people will ever be.

 

[Xantippe]

So, ok, they’ve got some financial issues now. If grandma & grandpa say, “Hey, how about we just give you some cash this year?” Great! Put it toward repairs. If not, well, how often do you really need to go out? Mass on Sunday. Grocery store once a week. Maybe a trip to the park (combined with either of those above). Other than that - stay at home mom just took on a deeper meaning.

We are currently making do with one car (my husbands walks to work and we lent our second car to a new colleague) and have a lot of experience living with children with either no or one car and I see a number of objections to that plan.

1. It sounds like an express train to depression for a mother with an infant, toddler and preschooler.
2. It’s not safe. It’s very important to be able to get a child to the doctor at a moment’s notice or to be able to evacuate in an emergency situation.
3. If the husband’s car has any issues, their situation will immediately turn into a week-long family crisis.

 

[E_7]

That’s pretty much how it is with my in-laws. They are very generous, especially with our kids, but it’s to the point that I feel guilty asking for anything even when they’re asking particularly what we want.

In that case, I see no reason to not ask them! There is pride on not accepting help when you are in need. If they are asking is because they care and want to help or give.

 

[pensmama87]

We are currently making do with one car (my husbands walks to work and we lent our second car to a new colleague) and have a lot of experience living with children with either no or one car and I see a number of objections to that plan.

1. It sounds like an express train to depression for a mother with an infant, toddler and preschooler.
2. It’s not safe. It’s very important to be able to get a child to the doctor at a moment’s notice or to be able to evacuate in an emergency situation.
3. If the husband’s car has any issues, their situation will immediately turn into a week-long family crisis.

Yeah - I can walk to our post office and my son’s elementary school when he starts kindergarten next year, but that’s it.

Right now my social life pretty much revolves around school pickup and park dates with other moms. Getting out of the house is critical for my sanity.

Also, our other car can’t fit three kids in it.

 

[Xantippe]

It is praiseworthy not to take advantage of the wealth of others, and if that is what Ramsey is talking about, I agree. It is hard to sit at table with someone you feel you’re taking advantage of because you have availed yourself of their wealth without the need to do it. The sting of being around a lender who loaned to you because you needed to borrow, however? That is pride.

It’s very natural, though, and it destroys relationships. The borrower avoids the lender or the lender starts scrutinizing the borrower’s financial choices.

I believe that generosity should be in the form of gifts, not loans. If I don’t have money to give, I don’t have it to lend, either.

 

[UbiCaritas]

We are currently making do with one car (my husbands walks to work and we lent our second car to a new colleague) and have a lot of experience living with children with either no or one car and I see a number of objections to that plan.

1. It sounds like an express train to depression for a mother with an infant, toddler and preschooler.
2. It’s not safe. It’s very important to be able to get a child to the doctor at a moment’s notice or to be able to evacuate in an emergency situation.
3. If the husband’s car has any issues, their situation will immediately turn into a week-long family crisis.

Even without a crisis of some sort, a second car for a family is really a necessity unless you can walk somewhere.

We made do with one car for the first year DD was here, and I can say hands-down that that was the worst year of my life. Babies need to see doctors a lot. So do postpartum moms. Every time DD or I had a doctor’s appointment or had to go to the grocery store, I’d have to drive DH to the bus (30 minutes there, 15 back). In order to do that, I’d have to get DD and I up an hour early just to be ready to leave the house on time, because she’d need to be changed and eat and so on, and I’d need to be dressed. Then we’d spend the day frantically fitting in as many errands (grocery store, drug store, gas up the car, do an oil change, pick up clothes, post office, pick up cat food, etc) as we could, DD screaming in hunger/boredom/general unhappiness the whole time. We’d get home, I’d feed her and put her down for a nap, only to have to wake her up half an hour into it to rush to pick up DH at the bus stop, DD screaming in her car seat the whole way because she was so tired and miserable from spending the whole day in a car seat, off her schedule, and without a proper nap.

It. Was. Horrible.

Then repeat that every time that something came up, as it inevitably did: I’d wake up with the classic signs of a UTI/mastitis/whatever, so on top of being sick, I’d have to drive DH to and from the bus and then deal with a doctor while hauling a screaming baby an hour drive each way, followed by the drugstore. Or something would go wrong with the car, and I’d spend the day at the shop or going to and from the shop, again–you guessed it–with a screaming baby.

The wonder wasn’t that I had PPD; it was that I managed, I’m still not sure how, to survive that year. At the end of which I told DH never, ever again.

 

[bitterhope]

I think I’ve actually literally never since getting married asked my parents or in-laws for anything at all, whether goods or services (beyond “pass the potatoes” or “could you hold the baby while I pump?”). I grew up in a poorer WASP family and married into a better-off Catholic ethnic family. I was very, very, very proud as a newlywed, and I actually felt rather offended when my FIL sent us checks from time to time. But my attitude as changed a lot since then–I’m much more pragmatic than I used to be and less proud. For one thing, it’s not all about me and my feelings anymore–we have kids, and they need stuff. The time hasn’t come yet (and hopefully it will never come), but if my kids genuinely needed something, I would suck it up and have my husband ask my in-laws, and it would be the right thing to do.

It all depends on the actual situation and family dynamics, of course. I believe, for instance, that pensmama87’s husband is an only child and that his parents are reasonably well-off, so that enters into the calculation. Also, family cultures vary–in many families, it would be regarded as offensive or hurtful not to inform older family members about serious material needs. My in-laws would feel that way, and I can imagine feeling at least a little the same way down the road, when our children are grown and have families of their own.

You’re quite right that any help should be asked for, rather than demanded.

Nothing wrong with accepting help that’s offered. It would be questionable if someone offered something you need but you opt not take it. God works through others and He often moves others to step in. I can’t see a broken van door needing repair, especially when it has two doors, being something worth offending others over. The parts to fix plus shipping since our local auto parts store didn’t have it in stock was $30. It was less than 15 mins labor. If it’s worse than ours (we had no inside our outside handle on it) and the latching mechanism is broken it might be harder or more expensive.

It’s not pride that keeps people going, it’s just how life works. We could ask for help but where would it come from? My mom is widowed and disabled. My husbands family lives in a dirt floor shack. We are better off than where we both came from and actually have sent money to our parents at times. More often his than mine because my siblings live close to mom and there are tons of us. My husband is the only one in his family so if we can’t help, no one would. You end up getting very creative when hard time hit when you have mouths to feed. Staying positive is necessary because when you start fretting and getting desperate you begin to make snap decisions. Those are usually not the best choices to make. Step back, observe, pray for guidance and trust yourself to make good decisions

 

[EasterJoy]

It’s very natural, though, and it destroys relationships. The borrower avoids the lender or the lender starts scrutinizing the borrower’s financial choices.

I believe that generosity should be in the form of gifts, not loans. If I don’t have money to give, I don’t have it to lend, either.

Again–sometimes getting a loan is the only sensible thing to do. You just have to swallow your pride, accept the temptations both lender and borrower will face, and just do it.

Many families do loans instead of gifts because it keeps things even between the siblings. The parents don’t necessarily concern themselves with being paid back, but they keep a list so that the division of the inheritance will take the loans into account. Some families do it that way. Likewise, many people who will take a loan with the promise of paying it back will not take a gift. It is wise to be willing to wave loans to relatives so long, farewell, it is has been good to know you, but avoiding loans altogether can be counter-productive just as taking them without reason can have many downsides. I think one does well to be flexible about these things, as is the case with most things having to do with family life. Never say never, because you can’t know how creative the future will be with you!