Should we be able to become CLOSE friends with the non Christ-centered?

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puzzleannie said:
of course not, we should only associate with people of similar backgrounds, who think, talk, act and believe as we do, so we can evangelize each other.
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Are you sayng stay away from those who donot think believe or relate the way we do, but let those who are saved( for a want of words) be our friends or have some form of relationship with us?

Jesus had friends who were close, and then He had those who He ministered to, should we not do the same?
Godbless
 
littleone said:
Are you sayng stay away from those who donot think believe or relate the way we do, but let those who are saved( for a want of words) be our friends or have some form of relationship with us?

Jesus had friends who were close, and then He had those who He ministered to, should we not do the same?
Godbless
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My guess is that puzzleannie meant what you’ve said. She was being sarcastic, maybe.
 
KingAlfred said:
I know I can’t maintain friendships with non-Christians. I find myself unable to relate to them, and eventually run out of things to talk about. Also, if I try to relate to them over a prolonged period – say for example, at work – I gradually become frustrated with the kinds of conversations we have, in as much as they lack a spiritual dimension. So, no…I don’t recommend friendships with non-believers or anti-Catholic Christians. Not a good idea.
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Do you think your inability to relate to non-Christians is lack of the same religion, or lack of a common background. ie. country, upbringing etc.
 
Have gratefully lifted the following from another thread. It says a lot.

"St. John of the Cross
Sayings of Light and Love
  1. He who wants to stand alone without the support of a master and guide, will be like the tree that stands alone in a field without a proprietor. No matter how much the tree bears, passers-by will pick the fruit before it ripens.
  2. A tree that is cultivated and guarded through the care of its owner produces its fruit at the expected time.
  3. The virtuous soul that is alone and without a master is like a lone burning coal, it will grow colder rather than hotter.
  4. He who falls alone remains alone in his fall, and he values his soul little since he entrusts it to himself alone.
  5. If you do not fear falling alone, how do you presume that you will rise up alone? Consider how much more can be accomplished by two together than by one alone.
  6. He who falls while heavily laden will find it difficult to rise under the burden.
  7. The blind man who falls will not get up alone in his blindness, and if he does, he will take the wrong road."
 
OP Your idea smacks of arrogance. Jesus hung out with sinners. Remember that.
 
from blessedtoo:

… But my understanding is that we have been clearly commanded to love others as well.
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In short, you can find commonality with ANYONE God chooses to put in your life. Start from the premise that they, as well as you, are sinners. I understand that at your age, you might romanticize the idea of a “best friend”, but as you get older you will realize that this relationship can take many forms and look different in each individual life.
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blessedtoo, we can find commality with people we’re not close friends with And we can BE a friend to someone we’re not close to and seemingly have nothing in common with. God requires us to do this and gives us the grace to “be” and to “give” to others in friendship.

Yes, we’re commanded to love people we don’t have much in common with. OP is talking about maintaining a close friendship with someone without faith. We’re not commanded to have a close friendship with others.
from Joysong:
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I believe the matter is best solved by listening to how God is calling each of us…
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True, every friendship, no matter what level or duration, is a gift from God, for each person is a gift from God to others.
from onetimeposter:
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OP Your idea smacks of arrogance. Jesus hung out with sinners. Remember that.
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The OP has not spoken of not hanging out with sinners. He’s not closing himself off from humanity or from being “a” friend. He’s merely talking about close friendships. It isn’t arrogance at all to be selective about who our close friends are.

Lazerlike,
I don’t know how to answer your original question directly. I am and have been “a” friend to many people. I’ve been blessed with a variety of friendships. But I’ve had very few close friendships in my life. I can’t imagine developing a close friendship with someone who doesn’t love God and with whom I can’t freely acknowledge God’s blessings, rejoice about God, talk about God, pray to God with. I’m trying to make Christ the center of my life – and am very imperfect at it and now and then need to be with other people who are Christ-centered to support me in my faith.
Perhaps I shouldn’t close the door to the possibility that God would will a close friendship with a non-Christian for me sometime in my future --I just doubt that it will happen.
But again, we can’t second-guess God. He gives us different gifts at different times in our lives.
 
catharina said:
Have gratefully lifted the following from another thread. It says a lot.

"St. John of the Cross
Sayings of Light and Love
  1. He who wants to stand alone without the support of a master and guide, will be like the tree that stands alone in a field without a proprietor. No matter how much the tree bears, passers-by will pick the fruit before it ripens.
  2. A tree that is cultivated and guarded through the care of its owner produces its fruit at the expected time.
  3. The virtuous soul that is alone and without a master is like a lone burning coal, it will grow colder rather than hotter.
  4. He who falls alone remains alone in his fall, and he values his soul little since he entrusts it to himself alone.
  5. If you do not fear falling alone, how do you presume that you will rise up alone? Consider how much more can be accomplished by two together than by one alone.
  6. He who falls while heavily laden will find it difficult to rise under the burden.
  7. The blind man who falls will not get up alone in his blindness, and if he does, he will take the wrong road."
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Catherina, I love this. PM me.👍
 
I get the impression that some are not really hearing what the OP has said, even though he spent a great deal of time typing to convey his thoughts. How easy it is to find scriptures and sayings of the wise to oppose him, but are we listening to his spirit? Or are we judging by standards that we would never impose on our own children? I offer these scriptures from the book of Sirach teaching us caution concerning our friendships.

Ch. 13:15 Every being is drawn to its own kind; with his own kind every man associates. Is a wolf ever allied with a lamb? Can there be peace between the hyena and the dog?

**Ch. 9:10 ** Discard not an old friend, for the new one cannot equal him. A new friend is like new wine which you drink with pleasure only when it has aged. 15. With the learned be intimate; let your conversation be about the Law of the Lord.
16. Have just men for your table companions.

**Ch. 6:6 ** Let your acquaintances be many, but one in a thousand your confidant. 14. A faithful friend is a sturdy shelter; he who finds one finds a treasure.
15. A faithful friend is beyond price, no sum can balance his worth. 16. A faithful friend is a life-saving remedy, such as he who fears God finds. 17. For he who fears God behaves accordingly, and his friend will be like himself.

**Ch. 7:34-36 ** Frequent the company of the elders; whoever is wise, stay close to him. Be eager to hear every godly discourse; let no wise saying escape you. If you see a man of prudence, seek him out; let your feet wear away his doorstep.

Ch 11:29 Bring not every man into your house, for many are the snares of the crafty one.
And I suppose we could cite many verses in the new testament as well. The book of Sirach is “wisdom literature.” May we consider well what it teaches us and use prudence in the choice of our friends, always considering that perfect will of God speaking in our heart, and how He would have us choose.
 
Joysong said:
I get the impression that some are not really hearing what the OP has said, even though he spent a great deal of time typing to convey his thoughts. How easy it is to find scriptures and sayings of the wise to oppose him, but are we listening to his spirit? Or are we judging by standards that we would never impose on our own children? I offer these scriptures from the book of Sirach teaching us caution concerning our friendships.

Ch. 13:15 Every being is drawn to its own kind; with his own kind every man associates. Is a wolf ever allied with a lamb? Can there be peace between the hyena and the dog?

**Ch. 9:10 ** Discard not an old friend, for the new one cannot equal him. A new friend is like new wine which you drink with pleaasure only when it has aged. 15. With the learned be intimate; let your conversation be about the Law of the Lord. 16. Have just men for your table companions.

**Ch. 6:6 ** Let your acquaintances be many, but one in a thousand your confidant. 14. A faithful friend is a sturdy shelter; he who finds one finds a treasure.
15. A faithful friend is beyond price, no sum can balance his worth. 16. A faithful friend is a life-saving remedy, such as he who fears God finds. 17. For he who fears God behaves accordingly, and his friend will be like himself.

**Ch. 7:34-36 ** Frequent the company of the elders; whoever is wise, stay close to him. Be eager to hear every godly discourse; let no wise saying escape you. If you see a man of prudence, seek him out; let your feet wear away his doorstep.

Ch 11:29 Bring not every man into your house, for many are the snares of the crafty one.
And I suppose we could cite many verses in the new testament as well. The book of Sirach is “wisdom literature.” May we consider well what it teaches us and use prudence in the choice of our friends, always considering that perfect will of God speaking in our heart, and how He would have us choose.
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So very wise and lovely. Thanks.🙂
 
peary said:
**Wow…such an elitist attitude! ** :eek:
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Not really. The Bible is full of admonitions reflective of this attitude.It’s not an expression of elitism, but of faithfulness to the Lord. How can a strong believer become a close friend with an atheist? At some point, divergences will arise that will invariably affect the relationship. One must work hard to preserve one’s devotion, and to bring it to maximum effect in changing the world. I don’t subscribe to elitism, but only to the dictates of my religion.
 
“Jesus had friends who were close, and then He had those who He ministered to, should we not do the same?”

But is that a true friendship if you’re ‘ministering’ to your non-Christian friend, in an effort to convert him or her? I say it isn’t. And, what’s to say your non-Christian friend isn’t trying to convert you to his belief system? I had a good friend who was a devout Mormon. At one point, I had to distance myself from him, after concluding he was constantly, yet very subtley, trying to convert me. We remained friendly and on good terms, but we weren’t close personal friends. Religion was too much of an issue between us.
 
I think that the morals of a person can limit the degree of friendship more than one’s belief in Christ.

I can see myself becomeing close friends with a good Jew, an Amish person and I have been good friends with Hindus .

But I know I can not bring myself to be a close friend to a Christian who shows no remorse for lying ,cheating or otherwise breaking the moral laws. Many people who call themselves Christian I meet brag about cheating on taxes, laugh about making false insurance claims, co-habiting etc. Those people, I would be hard pressed to become close with.
 
elts1956 said:
Do you think your inability to relate to non-Christians is lack of the same religion, or lack of a common background. ie. country, upbringing etc.
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Belief in Christ, His primacy in our lives, and our total submission to His will. How can I associate with someone who has no concept of what I’ve just described, much less any inclination to live that way? I knew someone who frequently became frustrated when I mentioned the role of spirituality in my work. She would sarcastically snap, “We’re talking about work, not God. God doesn’t work here.” After that, I was guarded in what I said in our conversations, which isn’t a characteristic of a genuine friendship.
With an acquaintance, that’s fine, but not in the case of a true friend.
 
Joysong said:
I get the impression that some are not really hearing what the OP has said, even though he spent a great deal of time typing to convey his thoughts. How easy it is to find scriptures and sayings of the wise to oppose him, but are we listening to his spirit? Or are we judging by standards that we would never impose on our own children? I offer these scriptures from the book of Sirach teaching us caution concerning our friendships.

The book of Sirach is “wisdom literature.” May we consider well what it teaches us and use prudence in the choice of our friends, always considering that perfect will of God speaking in our heart, and how He would have us choose.
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That is my impression too.
OP was not asking if possible to make friends with non Christ-centered people. We all be friends with many non Christ-centered people.

He was talking about being with CLOSE friends with non Christ-centered people.

“Close friends” means you spend lot of time together if possible, you share each other’s hearts, you understand each other well, you trust, support, and identify with each other’s values.
 
InLight247 said:
That is my impression too.
OP was not asking if possible to make friends with non Christ-centered people. We all be friends with many non Christ-centered people.

He was talking about being with CLOSE friends with non Christ-centered people.

“Close friends” means you spend lot of time together if possible, you share each other’s hearts, you understand each other well, you trust, support, and identify with each other’s values.
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So I’ll say again that I was blessed to grow into close friendships with both of my parents who were lifelong Catholics. I was also blessed to grow into a close friendship with my mother-in-law who was Jewish all of her life. Why would any such friendships be surprising to anyone? I always knew that my mother-in-law did not have the fullness of faith given to us. Yet I also always knew of her devout love of God. I know that she came closer to Our Lord and our Faith within our friendship than she ever had come in her life. How can that be a problem?
 
catharina said:
So I’ll say again that I was blessed to grow into close friendships with both of my parents who were lifelong Catholics. I was also blessed to grow into a close friendship with my mother-in-law who was Jewish all of her life. Why would any such friendships be surprising to anyone? I always knew that my mother-in-law did not have the fullness of faith given to us. Yet I also always knew of her devout love of God. I know that she came closer to Our Lord and our Faith within our friendship than she ever had come in her life. How can that be a problem?
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It is great you have a close relationship with your MIL. That is a true blessing. No problem at all.

While you may be talking about close family relationship, I am actually talking about friend with “spiritual intimacy”.And I think that may be what the OP was asking about.

Everyone’s definition of “spiritual intimacy” is different. How we define it also depends on where we are on our own spiritual journey.
Post #75** originally by Joysong:**
If anyone has read St. Teresa of Avila’s Life, you may remember that she blamed her visits to the parlor for her fall from a high degree of spiritual graces from God. Yet what were these visits, but conversations about God, initially? As idle talk goes, eventually these turned to things of the world, and it became a distraction to her that prevented her deep recollection in prayer.
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One has to have the same experience of deep recollection to understand what St. Teresa is talking about. My answer to the original question comes from that angle. I just cannot imagine a person in deep recollection with contemplative prayers who practice the presence of the Lord all the time, can form spiritual intimacy with someone who is not Christ centered.

By the way, I will be off CAF for the next three days.
 
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