Should we bring back vergers?

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JosiahOaklin1776

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This used to be a role by a man who would hold a long cane in front of the cross making the way through the crowd and protecting the priest deacons alter boys etc.
I got the idea from Dr taylor marshall after a woman got punched at mass
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So what do you think? Is there an alternative
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) the man in the black robe is the virger
 
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You’d be my first pick

You can still be a virger and be married
 
@JosiahOaklin1776, maybe you remember this incident from a year ago? I don’t think a verger could have prevented it.

 
I’m not sure if office of verger was a particularly widespread office in the Catholic Church’s history. They seem to have been largely (but not exclusively) confined to the to Church of England prior to the Reformation. After the Council of Trent, only the Anglicans in Western Christianity retained vergers on a widespread basis. For example, the black and white photo in the first post is that of an Episcopal procession.

That being said, most of their responsibilities in the Catholic Church were undertaken by other offices. For example, the Diocese of Rome used to employ mazzieri (mace-bearers) who lead papal processions with a silver mace. The mace, like the verger’s rod, was intended to push away over-enthusiastic and unruly crowds, but overtime came to be primarily ceremonial.
 
@JosiahOaklin1776, not sure he looks like he could do much if I am being honest. He looks too old to move quickly.
 
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So basically he’s like a security guard? What can he actually do in a crisis? Beat somebody with that long stick? Seems impractical.
Can we get Swiss guards for all over the world? Or in certain regions that are more dangerous for priests? I.e. France. Canada.
 
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I don’t think it would hurt for a couple of men from the parish to sit on either side of the sanctuary (as “security.”) In the case that @BartholomewB provided, they may have been able to stop that young woman before she even got that far.
 
I think each parish has to assess this on their own and make their own decision.
 
Well it’s not like someone intent on attacking them is going to care about permission.
 
I remember I was walking past my local church and I saw cops with guns standing out front and I feared the worse. Rushing over I asked what was going on and they told me to “leave these people to pray in peace.” I stayed out front and called the bishop to ask if he was okay (we were good friends before he retired) and he said everything was fine and that the cardinal was in town.

I asked the police to take the phone and let me in but they refused and told me if I didn’t leave they would be arresting me.

I find that guard of any stripe cares more about being a wall than actually protecting.

I fear if you give people weapons they look for opportunities to “do their job.”
 
i like the idea of some sort of swiss guard but that is pretty expensive, it should be a volunteer job

Also I know it’s unlikely but just imagine
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It would be a terrible idea.

Statistically, the chances of being pushed/punched/attacked during the Mass are enormously, enormously low. Driving to Mass in a car is over 1000 times more dangerous than sitting in the pew or a priest giving a homily.
 
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A woman quickly runs onto the stage. A pair of enthusiastic men run up and grab her and end up bruising her (these things tend to happen when there’s a chemical rush and everything is happening really fast). Turns out, she is severely mentally ill and had no intention of attacking anybody. Her family is angry and it develops into a legal dispute.
 
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Except on certain rare occasions (like a Papal visit or the inauguration of a bishop) having security around in situations where the chances that they are needed are enormously unlikely can often be a liability rather than help.
That was a situation that they used an appropriate use of force and they acted.
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The court might not agree, and for good reason.
 
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I don’t know if we need the verger specifically, but I DO support bringing back Porters (or at least a lay version of them)

Get rid of “ushers” and change them to “Porters.” They would still have the same job as the “usher” but will also be charged with security.

Find retired or currently employed police officers and/or military to volunteer (pay if absolutely necessary).

I think the virger would only be necessary if a church needed a guard inside the sanctuary.
 
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27lw said:
So basically he’s like a security guard? What can he actually do in a crisis? Beat somebody with that long stick? Seems impractical.
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The Verger was a vested security guard in the Sanctuary (and during procession), while the Porters were security guards in the nave.

And yes, he would hit people with the stick if they were trying to harm someone, esp the priest.
 
Most Cathedrals (esp in the cities) have security guards anytime the bishop is celebrating Mass.

I know it’s like that in Philadelphia. Everytime the Archbishop celebrates Mass, there are uniformed security guards in the Nave
 
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