Should we bring back vergers?

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I dearly wish some church still did this. I have beaten the bounds of my own yard on the appropriate days for 2 years. The neighbors probably think I’m doing some weird witchcraft walking around my property reciting a litany in Latin, but because I’m mostly British Isles heritage I feel connected to my roots doing it.
 
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InThePew said:
Personally as a priest, I find the idea of armed security in my church aberrant
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Police officers have extensive training, including simulations, to react with immediacy when necessary. I wouldn’t feel safe anywhere there wasn’t properly trained security officers–they can do more damage than anything. I know at our parish, there are police officers and those retired (my husband) who are attending mass and maintain awareness of their surroundings. They have the training and experience to see when someone is acting differently even if it’s only body language. Police have crisis intervention training and deescalation techniques. (I feel the need, given our current climate, to say that clearly there are officers and agencies who are not well trained or they ignore their training–a topic for a different discussion).

I don’t like the idea of citizens carrying weapons with minimal training; their intentions are likely good but mistakes are deadly. As a priest, I imagine parish security (not hired officers like @(name removed by moderator)) would make your safety feel even more precarious.

Regarding tasers…someone on meth or with mental illness often is able to carry on and exhibit extra human strength when high. Tasers work on most people, but the criminal elements often are so high that what works on normal people is wholly ineffective.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
That wouldn’t happen in ten thousand years.
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Depends on how widespread it is. I would bet money that if it were implemented over an area at least as big as the average US Diocese on the first Sunday of Advent, it would have happened somewhere in that area by Christmas.
 
InThePew said:
Outside of certain parts of the US ( cough cough Texas *cough cough ) carrying guns, mace, tasers, batons, nunchucks or swords in a public place is illegal except for (trained) police officers.
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Many security officers nationwide in USA are off-duty police. Obviously they have the necessary training, etc. It is a way they make extra money and also help the community.

They may or may not wear a gun in church, depending on the location, local laws, and the wishes of the bishop, rector, or pastor. They may also be wearing it concealed carry, so we don’t know if they are armed or not.

By the way, Texas is not the only place in USA where people often go armed. Far from it. Nor are all the armed people in the South or in some backwards area. Just assume wherever you are in USA, armed people are around, because they are.
 
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If it wasn’t a violation of privacy, I’d post the Facebook picture I saw in my feed this morning of the local police playing with the kids at St. ____'s Elementary School up the street.

There’s a lot of good police. And a lot of good Catholic police, judging by the crowds at their funerals at the local Catholic church. (We are fortunate that they do not often get killed in the line of duty here, but a couple of them have died of heart attacks or traffic accidents.)

By the way, my great-grandpa and my favorite cousin were Irish cops. And good Catholic men.
 
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No, I call the police to make my lawyers job easier if I have to protect my wife from a violent drunken neighbor.

“See your honor, I called the cops twice begging police to do something. The guy slashed my tires in retaliation. I called again and nothing. He then corned me in the laundry room and I feared for my life so we fought, I snapped his neck.”

I call because I have too, not because I want too.
 
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Anrakyr said:
No such thing.
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Yes, there are good police officers and good agencies. My husband retired a year ago and was a force commander, supervising hundreds of officers. His force was effective, intelligent, well trained, and took pride in their service to their community. Problems were addressed swiftly and problem officers/repeat offenders were dismissed promptly. Many of his officers quit lucrative jobs because they wanted to serve their communities, many were especially driven to do so after 9/11.

There are bad officers. There are bad agencies. We hear about these in the news. What we don’t see in the news are the thousands of officers who give too much for a job that pays too little (they aren’t moonlighting as off duty security officers for the fun).

My husband was almost killed whilst on duty some years ago, trying to earn extra money doing a detail at Christmas. Thank God he did not die. I thank God he retired just before the proverbial stuff hit the fan. He no longer gets screamed at, spit upon, derided, provoked by being insulted by someone less than an inch from his face. It’s also nice that we don’t have to be in the midst about contracted hits being put out for officers in our area or see good officers thrown under the political bus to make certain politicians look better in the eyes of the media. Police are given an impossible job and punished for doing said job. People pour hours into reviewing a video clip out of context wherein an officer had microseconds to assess and respond. Officers are being fired and personally destroyed for following their training. We’ve eliminated mental health institutions and expect police to cover every base from custody disputes to drug induced manic delusions to corralling mental health patients.

I get steamed at people categorically deriding police. I live with a man who gave 25 years to help his community–he was good enough at it to be given command, at one point leading all of the training and leadership development for the agency. Many of the officers–good men and women–are currently taking early retirement or scrambling to find different careers.
 
NevermoreLenore said:
I get steamed at people categorically deriding police. I live with a man who gave 25 years to help his community–he was good enough at it to be given command, at one point leading all of the training and leadership development for the agency. Many of the officers–good men and women–are currently taking early retirement or scrambling to find different careers.
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I get steamed by low bar to entree police force who won’t call out their own on bad behaviour.
 
Anrakyr said:
I get steamed by low bar to entree police force who won’t call out their own on bad behaviour.
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And so to call them out, you lump all police officers, good and bad together, and say they’re all bad. It doesn’t matter what the good cops do, they’re all bad. They’re all just like the corrupt ones.

What a way to encourage the good police officers to stay that way.
 
Fauken said:
And so to call them out, you lump all police officers, good and bad together, and say they’re all bad. It doesn’t matter what the good cops do, they’re all bad. They’re all just like the corrupt ones.
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I’m yeah, if we were in a room and you killed someone and we all collectively shrugged we’d be guilty too.

Good cops that won’t call out bad cops are not good cops.
 
I know you get this. Most others do not. My husband always said the most unruly, difficult, and resistant are drunk women. In your post you mentioned three officers restraining one person–you and I get it, but everyone else are often up in arms–‘there’s no way it was necessary for three officers to hold down one person!’ Uh, yep, sometimes that is what it takes.
 
Anrakyr said:
I’m yeah, if we were in a room and you killed someone and we all collectively shrugged we’d be guilty too.

Good cops that won’t call out bad cops are not good cops.
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Except you make no distinction between the ones that do and the ones that don’t. They’re all the same to you.
 
And yet the unwillingness to hold them accountable is clear in other threads where “we got to vote trump to stop abortion.”

Completely ignoring a montage of lies and mismanagement.

While I don’t want to high jack the thread but that’s the mindset we are dealing with.

“They are here to protect so the desire to join them must be good.”

You’d hope but isn’t proof.
 
Anrakyr said:
Good cops that won’t call out bad cops are not good cops.
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You really think a good officer in an agency of thousands has any control on hiring and disciplinary actions?

I have been at MANY funerals of slain officers. Good officers–great, even. I won’t change your mind and it isn’t worth my time attempting to do so, given you categorically dismiss an entire profession with simplistic and uncharitable talking points. I have no issue with people who have differing opinions to my own, but I cannot respect people who don’t seek to understand all sides of an issue and appreciate that situations such as these are every shade of grey and contain integrating and nuanced elements to which there is no easy solution.
 
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