If you were engaged in conversation with another person but your listening was solely devoted to the pleasure of music rather than the pleasure of listening to the others sharing, yes, that violates the purpose of conversation and the communion of the persons.
There is no need for her overly personal accusations and attacks that are stemming totally from an imagined conspiracy directly against herself. Lets stick to the important topic at hand.How is anything that she wrote “strange” or “violent”?
See you don’t understand, I am NOT objecting to your statements in terms of the teachings of the church and the truth. The way we see Christ has got nothing to do with this. Nowhere have I said the OP should go against catholic teaching. My advise has been to not let the appearance of happy protestants change her faith and to not leave the church because she is struggling with one of its teachings. What do you know, a non catholic, telling a catholic to STAY catholic!
It is against forum rules to tell someone to leave the Church, and furthermore, how dare anyone tell any of the lost little lambs to stay away until they can properly find their way back to the Church, without the help of Jesus looking for them each and every Sunday?Well saidWhat is happening here?!
The OP is in a very serious situation. She has already demonstrated an understanding of Church teaching, and has admitted that she is struggling with accepting it, because of the trials she and her husband are facing.
She doesn’t need to be put down. Her struggles should not be minimized.
She needs to be encouraged not to be fearful.
She needs to be directed to models of NFP that offer a high level of certainty.
She needs to be counseled to go back to her priest and speak to him if her conscience is still troubled.
And she needs to be told that if, despite all her efforts to form her own conscience, that if her husband still doesn’t understand, and out of fear he goes and gets a vasectomy or insists upon condom usage, she is not culpable. Her husband may yet come to a place of conversion or acceptance. But right now they are scared.
I think the use of the word “pathetic” and other such words used in this thread to mock the internal conflict experienced by the OP and other posters who have gone through similar crises, is just mean and unfair. Would you look someone in the face and call them pathetic? Because there are people on the other end of the internet connection, even if you cannot see their face.
The OP was asking if the Church would prefer that she “excommunicate” herself because she cannot accept a hard teaching right now. I said of course she should stay. To whom should she go? The Church that Christ founded has the teachings that lead to eternal life. But some posters here appear to be so angry at her internal conflict, as well as those of a couple other posters who struggle similarly, that they are willing to say yes, leave. I remember one poster saying that if she finds herself unable to refrain from communion while she struggles with dissent (remember she and her husband are only discussing vasectomy, and nothing has been done yet), then yes, she should leave the Church until such time as she finds she no longer dissents.
Here is the post I mentioned.
Yes there ARE other people on the other side of theWhat is happening here?!
The OP is in a very serious situation. She has already demonstrated an understanding of Church teaching, and has admitted that she is struggling with accepting it, because of the trials she and her husband are facing.
She doesn’t need to be put down. Her struggles should not be minimized.
She needs to be encouraged not to be fearful.
She needs to be directed to models of NFP that offer a high level of certainty.
She needs to be counseled to go back to her priest and speak to him if her conscience is still troubled.
And she needs to be told that if, despite all her efforts to form her own conscience, that if her husband still doesn’t understand, and out of fear he goes and gets a vasectomy or insists upon condom usage, she is not culpable. Her husband may yet come to a place of conversion or acceptance. But right now they are scared.
I think the use of the word “pathetic” and other such words used in this thread to mock the internal conflict experienced by the OP and other posters who have gone through similar crises, is just mean and unfair. Would you look someone in the face and call them pathetic? Because there are people on the other end of the internet connection, even if you cannot see their face.
The OP was asking if the Church would prefer that she “excommunicate” herself because she cannot accept a hard teaching right now. I said of course she should stay. To whom should she go? The Church that Christ founded has the teachings that lead to eternal life. But some posters here appear to be so angry at her internal conflict, as well as those of a couple other posters who struggle similarly, that they are willing to say yes, leave. I remember one poster saying that if she finds herself unable to refrain from communion while she struggles with dissent (remember she and her husband are only discussing vasectomy, and nothing has been done yet), then yes, she should leave the Church until such time as she finds she no longer dissents.
Oh please, first of all this is not about saving humanity anyone. Are you really unfamiliar with the over populations in some parts of the world and the number of children if foster care that simply will never have a family of there own. I have three children, should I just go on having more that I cannot afford. I am not a person with a new house, new furniture, new cars, yearly vacations, etc. We work hard for our money and put all our savings into putting our kids through Catholic school, where they never talk like some of you people.
Leave the barbs for hypocritical clerics and use a compassionate tone when speaking to the rank and file. That’s what I’ve learned from close reading of Christ’s approach.
Now we are getting somewhere.
Highlighted portion. I am sorry but I do not understand your paragraph. Could you please edit for grammar and syntax errors and repost this portion? I would appreciate it. Thank you.
And here’s where we get off the “compassionate tone” train and jump into “real talk.” You want to talk vitriol? It’s here shelby. I’m sorry, it’s right there in what you just wrote.
This was my position before this thread went all Charlie Sheen on us.
Highlighted red: Where did AvocadoMom say that?
From a catholic perspective - YES
No, I am not misunderstanding. Telling them to stay away from Church is telling them to miss Mass, which is a mortal sin. A person already struggling should keep going to Mass, even if they refrain from Holy Communion.
What is happening here?!
The OP is in a very serious situation. She has already demonstrated an understanding of Church teaching, and has admitted that she is struggling with accepting it, because of the trials she and her husband are facing.
She doesn’t need to be put down. Her struggles should not be minimized.
She needs to be encouraged not to be fearful.
She needs to be directed to models of NFP that offer a high level of certainty.
She needs to be counseled to go back to her priest and speak to him if her conscience is still troubled.
And she needs to be told that if, despite all her efforts to form her own conscience, that if her husband still doesn’t understand, and out of fear he goes and gets a vasectomy or insists upon condom usage, she is not culpable. Her husband may yet come to a place of conversion or acceptance. But right now they are scared.
I think the use of the word “pathetic” and other such words used in this thread to mock the internal conflict experienced by the OP and other posters who have gone through similar crises, is just mean and unfair. Would you look someone in the face and call them pathetic? Because there are people on the other end of the internet connection, even if you cannot see their face.
The OP was asking if the Church would prefer that she “excommunicate” herself because she cannot accept a hard teaching right now. I said of course she should stay. To whom should she go? The Church that Christ founded has the teachings that lead to eternal life. But some posters here appear to be so angry at her internal conflict, as well as those of a couple other posters who struggle similarly, that they are willing to say yes, leave. I remember one poster saying that if she finds herself unable to refrain from communion while she struggles with dissent (remember she and her husband are only discussing vasectomy, and nothing has been done yet), then yes, she should leave the Church until such time as she finds she no longer dissents.
