Should we support our own?

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I will not vote for any candidate that supports abortion, and I do not care if they have a capital D or R along side their name.
 
Phil19034,
you are far more informed about US politics than I am, so I cannot debate all your issues.

I read
_Mike Pence is a former Catholic therefore Canon Law does apply to him.

Therefore, Kaine commits grave sin almost every time he publicly discusses his Catholic faith and how his faith supports same sex marriage, abortion, etc.

I am old-fashioned and believe in the ‘once a Catholic always a Catholic’ view. If one feels tired one cannot say I am no longer a Catholic and the obligation to go to mass doesn’t apply to me.

One cannot say any individual commits a sin in specific circumstance, as this is God’s judgement. All one can give are general principals, as mortal sins involve grave matter, clear knowledge and full consent. I cannot claim Pence commits sin by not attending mass on Sundays.
 
(name removed by moderator),
thanks for your list.
Your figures suggest that Republicans, being in the majority, will be able to gain support for the overthrow of Roe vs Wade. When this happens I will be pleased to acknowledge the sincerity of Republicans’ pro-life policies.
 
Tis_Bearself
Tis_Bearself said:
I consider him somebody who’d probably sell his own grandma to win an election.

And I’m not in love with the guy who is raised Catholic and then ditches the faith for some evangelical Protestant church either.
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I do not think many Democrats would sell their grandmas to win elections. Not too many would like to buy old grandmas.

In the future I would like to start a debate about why so many Catholics become evangelical Protestants.
 
I have replied to many of the posts here. The general message seems clear that Catholics cannot vote Democrat. So should one either abstain from voting of vote Republican, even if one objects to most of their policies? This is a bleak picture.
 
This thread seems to show it may be sinful for Catholics to vote Democrat. Yet I note that in last year’s presidential election 37% of white Catholics voted for Hillary Clinton, while 67% of Hispanic Catholics voted for her.

White Catholics preferred the thrice married Donald Trump, who seems to condone sexual assaults and supported an alleged child molester, over Mrs Clinton who has remained married to one man.
 
I don’t think Trump seemed to support sexual assault to those of us who voted him in.
Hillary Clinton supported full term abortion, even to within a day of being born.
She also seemed to support open borders, and had various political scandals under her belt. Not to mention her work in the Middle East.
The Clintons are a political power couple. Their marriage, based on things said against Mr Clinton, don’t seem to be…monogamous, if you know what I am saying.
 
A bishop’s concern is with ministering to the flock. Spreading the Gospel. Serving the poor and marginalized.
Whether a politician is a member of the Catholic Church is not the deciding criteria for support. Does the politician serve the Gospel?

Abortion is the most pressing issue whether we like it or not. It’s the most barbaric and direct attack against human well being.
Hence a bishop should speak against pro-abortion politicians.
Mike Pence being an ex-Catholic is unfortunate but not the only criteria for support/not.
 
NoelFitz said:
AdamPeter,
of course one does not support abortion, but if Catholic politicians support justice, health care, decent education, decent living conditions and fair taxes they should be supported.
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Reminiscent of one German man talking to another in 1941???: "Hans, he has turned the economy around, food is plentiful, the roads are paved, order has been restored, our money is again worth something, schools are open and the children are being well educated, we are again strong and powerful as a nation. Of course there is that thing with the Jews, but really, shouldn’t we all support Adol… well, you know the rest.
 
NoelFitz said:
The general message seems clear that Catholics cannot vote Democrat.
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Huh?
Catholics can and do vote Democrat if they feel it’s the better choice or even the “lesser of two evils”. Some Catholics believe that if a Dem is “pro-choice”, then he or she will never, ever be the “lesser of two evils” but instead will always be the more evil choice. This is a valid position. Other Catholics may make the decision based on another issue, such as where the Dem stands on labor or immigration. I think that is also a valid position.

Whether or not to vote Democrat in these circumstances is a far cry from your original position that seemed to suggest that Tim Kaine was such an awesome Catholic that the bishops and everybody else should line up behind him cheering him on to victory. I don’t find Tim Kaine to be an awesome Catholic, and I told you so, while further stating that I do not like Mike Pence either.

Now somehow this has turned into a discussion of the comparative morality of Hillary and Donald, neither of whom are Catholic? Weird.
 
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Tis_Bearself.

You start your recent post with 'Huh, and end with ‘weird’, but what you write between is solid.

I am here to learn, and be encouraged in the faith. Strange as it may seem to you I have not always been infallible. I did not mean to start a comparison of two individuals. I meant to claim we should support our own. Catholics should be united.

Fundamentally I am pleased to hear Catholics can vote Democrat.

I am reminded of my time in the US when a friend with great feeling admitted he was going to vote Republican (Nixon) and said his late father would spin in his grave if he knew.

Let’s all try to be united in a hostile world.

complete my joy by being of the same mind, with the same love, united in heart, thinking one thing. (Phil. 2:2 NAB).
 
AdamPeter,
Is there a politician in the US who is a demagogue, against people on the basis of their religion or ethnicity, considers immigrants evil and generally wants his country to be ‘over-all’?
There are differences between the US and Germany in the 1930s.
 
(name removed by moderator)
I am pleased to hear one can vote one’s conscience in the US, so it is not really a Hobson’s choice.
The US was the leading country on earth, and it is a sad now to see it destroying itself.
 
NoelFitz said:
Catholics should be united.
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I think politically this is impossible. There are a huge number of Catholics and they come from all kinds of socioeconomic backgrounds, cultures, levels of education, all over the map. When Ronald Reagan ran for President, there were many Catholics who voted for him because he was anti-abortion or because they agreed with him on other policies. And there were also many Catholics who didn’t vote for him, including both my parents, because they didn’t like his overall platform.

I’m not even sure that it’s desirable for all Catholics to vote as a bloc. I highly doubt all the Apostles were on the same page politically. You had a radical revolutionary and a tax collector and a couple of poor fishermen and a doctor and a few other things. What mattered was that they all agreed on belief in Jesus Christ. If the Church is going to have a wide reach and connect with a lot of people, then it’s good to be diverse, especially in a country like USA where the two political parties really are not that far apart (it’s not like one party is going to destroy the Catholic Church or restructure the whole constitution and political system, etc. and both parties basically want economic gains for the country, want the stock market to do well, etc.).
 
Keep politics out of church. We need to focus on church teaching, not party political lines. Catholics are a variety. We have conservatives, moderates, independents, and liberals. All Catholics should reject communism. Christianity suffered greatly under communism.
 
NoelFitz said:
Phil19034,
you are far more informed about US politics than I am, so I cannot debate all your issues.

I read
_Mike Pence is a former Catholic therefore Canon Law does apply to him.

Therefore, Kaine commits grave sin almost every time he publicly discusses his Catholic faith and how his faith supports same sex marriage, abortion, etc.

I am old-fashioned and believe in the ‘once a Catholic always a Catholic’ view. If one feels tired one cannot say I am no longer a Catholic and the obligation to go to mass doesn’t apply to me.

One cannot say any individual commits a sin in specific circumstance, as this is God’s judgement. All one can give are general principals, as mortal sins involve grave matter, clear knowledge and full consent. I cannot claim Pence commits sin by not attending mass on Sundays.
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Mike Pence is sinning by going to a Protestant Church and not going to mass. However, he MAY NOT be committing a Mortal Sin due to the criteria you provided.

However, the type of religious service Mike Pence attends is not a political issue. When Catholics are called to vote for politicians, the Church does not ask us to examine their entire lives in regards to Canon Law. What we are asked to do is consider their stance on “political issues in play” in regards to Church teaching and whether we believe they are a “person of good will” – not necessarily a person of impeccable character.

For example:
  1. the issue of birth control is not politically in play. It’s not something being actively discussed in Congress or State Legislatures to outlaw. Therefore, we Catholics do not have to vote for anti-birth control candidates.
  2. the political issues of abortion, euthanasia, etc are politically “in play” and are actively debated. Therefore, the views of a politician on these issues is important to the Church.
God can work with flawed leaders like Trump, just has he did with flawed leaders like King David. But that’s only if the leader is not actively acting against the dogmatic teaching of the Church.

God Bless
 
My post was directed toward the idea of there existing one overriding issue that takes precedence over all others in deciding how to cast a ballot. It had nothing to do with the idea of a single politician. Sorry you didn’t understand the nuance.
 
I am grateful to all who contributed to this thread. The replies were not really encouraging us to support our own, This was disappointing, but not unexpected.

I am reminded of St Paul
So then, while we have the opportunity, let us do good to all, but especially to those who belong to the family of the faith (Gal. 6:10 NAB)

I had hoped that there would have been more understanding and sympathy for our struggling fellow Catholics in public life who have difficult problems to face, since they represent more than pious Catholics, and are obliged to follow their consciences.

We are not the keepers of their consciences, but they are part of our family, the people of God.
 
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