Should Women Wear Veils In Church

[Ceil-1]

Why are these threads always hijacked ? Those who are insisting on head coverings, after those, whose business it is to make these judgements, have deemed it a pious devotion and no longer normative, are overstepping their boundaries.

I was hoping for some fresh insight into the reasons for headcovering, and the discussion is hijacked by smug, supercilious types who put themselves over the very people who have the authority to speak on these issues.

The thread asked should women wear veils. I want to know why I should wear a veil. If a law was in effect in 1917, apparently our leaders have forgotten it. Why don’t you go browbeat them?

If they issued a directive that veils are to be worn, I would do it, and joyfully. They have not. I have discerned for myself and feel it pleases the Lord to do so. Enough sanctimony. I’m sure your wives would appreciate a nice dinner out.

 

[redrosetea]

No I am not being chased around my church, people I attend church with, have better manners, and aren’t into judging others ,like they are on this thread…

 

[scylla]

No I am not being chased around my church, people I attend church with, have better manners, and aren’t into judging others ,like they are on this thread…

Hmm, I know that it sometimes it can be hard to tell someones tone on the internet, yet I have seen no judging on this thread.

People have pointed out that it is quite right and good to wear a veil and that we those who do not are not to be looked down upon. Every woman should wear a veil yet it is their choice not to. No one is forced to wear a veil.

You might not like them but that is what the Bible recommends and it is a good thing to do, no one is forcing you to do wear one and no one says you are evil to not do so.

If anyone has judged you on this thread or said something to that effect I apologize to you for them.

It is quite wrong to encourage anyone not to wear a veil as that would be going against our faith in respecting the sacred. This would be similar to encouraging someone to not go to daily Mass. Though someone has the option to do something good no one should ever encourage someone not to do something good.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[catharina]

Hmm, I know that it sometimes it can be hard to tell someones tone on the internet, yet I have seen no judging on this thread.

People have pointed out that it is quite right and good to wear a veil and that we those who do not are not to be looked down upon. Every woman should wear a veil yet it is their choice not to.

**This is called judging. This is your opinion. The Church is not teaching this “should” at this time. Some on this thread are teaching this “should.” **

---

**We are not Protestants. We do not follow Scripture only. We are Catholics. The Code of Canon Law (1983) removed the Canon that once required the “should.” It existed for women as a law of the Church from 1917 to 1983. Now it does NOT exist as a law. ****It is not a “should.” I don’t think anyone here has recommended ‘no head coverings.’ Rather, people are stating the obvious: this is no longer a “should” for Catholic women. **

**We are a Church that observes both Scripture and Tradition. A part of the tradition is observing Canon Law - rather than fighting Canon Law. **

No one is forced to wear a veil.

You might not like them but that is what the Bible recommends and it is a good thing to do, no one is forcing you to do wear one and no one says you are evil to not do so.

If anyone has judged you on this thread or said something to that effect I apologize to you for them.

It is quite wrong to encourage anyone not to wear a veil as that would be going against our faith in respecting the sacred. This would be similar to encouraging someone to not go to daily Mass. Though someone has the option to do something good no one should ever encourage someone not to do something good.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[scylla]

Interesting, I never expected such a response on a Catholic forum…

Lets see, maybe you misunderstand what I meant by should. Is it a good thing? Is it a holy thing to do?
Should does not mean that it is a requirement. I should go to daily Mass as in my example, every Catholic would agree to that statement. It is a good and holy thing to do. It is not a requirement.

I have only stated the truth that it is a good and holy thing to do. To veil oneself in the presence of the Sacred and Holy is a good thing to do. It should be done. It doesn’t have to be done as it isn’t a requirement of Catholic teaching.

I am not sure what your objection is, would you please explain where I have judged or where I have gone against Catholic teaching. I have only stated fact, that it is a good and holy thing to do, that we should do good and holy things.

I know it can make some people who do not like to do so uncomfortable, but that is no reason to object to the statements.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[redrosetea]

It is your interpretation of veiling it is not mine, nor the Popes…As far as I know he is still Peter…many on this thread think they are wiser than him, or holier than him

When the Holy Father tells me to veil, I will immediately…I will not do it for someone on the BB to feel like they are madame full charge, and can tell everyone how to worship

 

[seekerz]

I believe, and Scripture does seem to indicate this, that for women, wearing a head covering was a custom. In many eastern cultures, women are still expected to cover their heads.

The “respect for the angels” or “sign of piety” explanations, taken by themselves do not completely convince me that God requires this of us otherwise it would mean the same piety and respect is not being required of men.

I believe that taken in the cultural context, women covering their heads was a sign of submission to authority (not necessarily God’s authority, but the authority figures in society and the Church, usually male).

I’m open to correction here, but that’s the way I see it.

 

[catharina]

Interesting, I never expected such a response on a Catholic forum…

Lets see, maybe you misunderstand what I meant by should. Is it a good thing? Is it a holy thing to do?
Should does not mean that it is a requirement. I should go to daily Mass as in my example, every Catholic would agree to that statement. It is a good and holy thing to do. It is not a requirement.

I have only stated the truth that it is a good and holy thing to do. To veil oneself in the presence of the Sacred and Holy is a good thing to do. It should be done. It doesn’t have to be done as it isn’t a requirement of Catholic teaching.

I am not sure what your objection is, would you please explain where I have judged or where I have gone against Catholic teaching. I have only stated fact, that it is a good and holy thing to do, that we should do good and holy things.

I know it can make some people who do not like to do so uncomfortable, but that is no reason to object to the statements.

God Bless
Scylla

Perhaps this view will help you understand.
It’s been mentioned here.

Women and men SHOULD visit the Blessed Sacrament as frequently as possible. This article of faith supercedes any notion that women SHOULD have a headcovering to do so.

 

[scylla]

Perhaps this view will help you understand.
It’s been mentioned here.

Women and men SHOULD visit the Blessed Sacrament as frequently as possible. This particular article of faith supercedes any notion that women SHOULD have a headcovering to do so.

I agree if it is impossible then it is not necessary at all.

In the same way that visiting the Blessed Sacrament supercedes the fact that I should dress in nice clothes. I can visit in a shirt with holes in it if necessary. I should seek to wear something nice and respectful in the same way that women should wear a veil. They do not have to or should not be looked down upon if they do not. It is a good and holy thing to do.

I am still not sure of what your objection is, unless you think that it isn’t a good and holy thing to do? I am in no way saying that no woman can be in the presence of the sacred with her head uncovered, I do not think it is a requirement.

Can you please explain your objection or have I cleared up my statement enough?

God Bless
Scylla

 

[catharina]

I agree if it is impossible then it is not necessary at all.

In the same way that visiting the Blessed Sacrament supercedes the fact that I should dress in nice clothes. I can visit in a shirt with holes in it if necessary. I should seek to wear something nice and respectful in the same way that women should wear a veil. They do not have to or should not be looked down upon if they do not. It is a good and holy thing to do.

I am still not sure of what your objection is, unless you think that it isn’t a good and holy thing to do? I am in no way saying that no woman can be in the presence of the sacred with her head uncovered, I do not think it is a requirement.

Can you please explain your objection or have I cleared up my statement enough?

God Bless
Scylla

Excellent clarification. Thank you.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Women and men SHOULD visit the Blessed Sacrament as frequently as possible. This particular article of faith supercedes any notion that women SHOULD have a headcovering to do so

.

But Catharina (with respect). . .I think you’re arguing a non sequiter here.

Men and women should visit the Blessed Sacrament as frequently as possible. True.

But how that supersedes the notion that women should have a headcovering to do so simply doesn’t follow. What does a woman needing to wear a headcovering have to do what how often she can visit the Blessed Sacrament?

If the Church were to rule tomorrow that “men and women must now be sure to cover their heads in the presence of the blessed sacrament”. . .would you have any problem accepting it?

If yes . . .why? Hundreds of thousands of men and women wear a near ubiquitous ‘baseball cap’ daily --it would be no undue burden on them. Those who do not wear a cap or other covering would purchase one. Those who are indigent would go to the parish where a committee would no doubt have made arrangements to have various sizes and styles of coverings available to those in need.

If no, no problem. . .then why it is a problem when ‘women’ only are proposed to cover? If this is something that you’d accept if it was for ‘both’. . .then it should be acceptable for one or the other, coming as a church decision–unless you felt the Church’s decision was purely and simply sexist. . .and that’s a whole 'nother topic, as the rationale for head covering is not and never has been sexist.

Of course, if you thought it a problem for both men and women that would be a ‘consistent’ thing. . .but I’d still be curious why it would be a problem. As I said, the majority of people wear some kind of hat or covering at least some of the time for a variety of reasons. . .why not wear one for an hour once a week at Mass, or for the regular visits to the blessed sacrament?

 

[scylla]

I believe, and Scripture does seem to indicate this, that for women, wearing a head covering was a custom. In many eastern cultures, women are still expected to cover their heads.

The “respect for the angels” or “sign of piety” explanations, taken by themselves do not completely convince me that God requires this of us otherwise it would mean the same piety and respect is not being required of men.

I believe that taken in the cultural context, women covering their heads was a sign of submission to authority (not necessarily God’s authority, but the authority figures in society and the Church, usually male).

I’m open to correction here, but that’s the way I see it.

I agree that it is not a requirement.

Women and men are different and of course the same actions would not be required of men. Our faith is not based upon culture but upon submission to God.

It would be shameful for a man to wear headcovering unless it is a bandage or something like that. It would be an insult to women as men are different.

In our culture it is difficult to accept veiling as holiness doesn’t matter and most women do not think of holiness as something good. It is to be ridiculed and spat upon in our culture.
You veil what is holy. I would recommend listening to Alice Von Hildebrand and her talk about Holiness and Veiling.

Here is a quick link to a taste of the beauty and sacredness of womenhood that has been lost in todays culture.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I also would like to make it clear that I do not say that women (right now) ‘must’ wear a veil.

IF (and only if) it were the considered judgment of the Church that she do so, that would make a difference.

I only say that the particular scenario given in so far as I understood it seemed to be a non sequiter.

IF a woman were required to wear a veil, that has absolutely no ‘effect’ on how often she can visit the Blessed Sacrament.

But (right now), a woman can visit the Blessed Sacrament as often as she chooses–with or without a veil.

 

[redrosetea]

One time when we were still required to veil I wore one of those whimsy ( almost invisible) veils to mass. They had a small bow on the top, and it was just a sheer veil…It was windy and this thing was weightless…It must have blown off before mass ,and I never knew it, and my husband didn’t notice it

I put my hand up and felt it was gone in the middle of mass. I didn’t know what to do. My husband wanted us to leave pronto…I felt it would be worse to walk out, hatless , it would let everyone see I had no hat, and perhaps think I was flouting church teaching

I didn’t go up for communion and was so upset I didn’t even know what was going on …All I could think of was I had sinned, even though I didn’t do it on purpose

DO you think God saw my bare head or saw my loving heart?

 

[catharina]

.

But Catharina (with respect). . .I think you’re arguing a non sequiter here.

Men and women should visit the Blessed Sacrament as frequently as possible. True.

But how that supersedes the notion that women should have a headcovering to do so simply doesn’t follow. What does a woman needing to wear a headcovering have to do what how often she can visit the Blessed Sacrament?

If the Church were to rule tomorrow that “men and women must now be sure to cover their heads in the presence of the blessed sacrament”. . .would you have any problem accepting it?

**Men AND women and/or Men OR women, it would be no problem for me. What is a problem for me is wading through the excruciatingly tedious arguments that we (women) ARE to do so now - because once we had to do so. Do you grasp that? Yet? There are days when one might imagine he or she is surrounded by a slew of mini-Popes on this forum. I don’t like it. **

---

I follow Rome not the-man-in-the-street.

If yes . . .why? Hundreds of thousands of men and women wear a near ubiquitous ‘baseball cap’ daily --it would be no undue burden on them. Those who do not wear a cap or other covering would purchase one. Those who are indigent would go to the parish where a committee would no doubt have made arrangements to have various sizes and styles of coverings available to those in need.

If no, no problem. . .then why it is a problem when ‘women’ only are proposed to cover? If this is something that you’d accept if it was for ‘both’. . .then it should be acceptable for one or the other, coming as a church decision–unless you felt the Church’s decision was purely and simply sexist. . .and that’s a whole 'nother topic, as the rationale for head covering is not and never has been sexist.

Of course, if you thought it a problem for both men and women that would be a ‘consistent’ thing. . .but I’d still be curious why it would be a problem. As I said, the majority of people wear some kind of hat or covering at least some of the time for a variety of reasons. . .why not wear one for an hour once a week at Mass, or for the regular visits to the blessed sacrament?

Oh yes - no disrespect intended but do you think maybe you HOUND people about things that are simply inconsequential??

 

[scylla]

One time when we were still required to veil I wore one of those whimsy ( almost invisible) veils to mass. They had a small bow on the top, and it was just a sheer veil…It was windy and this thing was weightless…It must have blown off before mass ,and I never knew it, and my husband didn’t notice it

I put my hand up and felt it was gone in the middle of mass. I didn’t know what to do. My husband wanted us to leave pronto…I felt it would be worse to walk out, hatless , it would let everyone see I had no hat, and perhaps think I was flouting church teaching

I didn’t go up for communion and was so upset I didn’t even know what was going on …All I could think of was I had sinned, even though I didn’t do it on purpose

DO you think God saw my bare head or saw my loving heart?

God saw your loving heart, of course.

No one has said circumstances beyond your control make it wrong to not wear a veil and no one has said it is wrong not to wear a veil. They have just said it is a good thing to do.

This is similar to the people in nursing homes who cannot visit the Blessed Sacrament, they have no control over the circumstances. God sees their heart, yet this doesn’t make it wrong to visit the Blessed Sacrament it is a good and holy thing to do.

We should always try and do what is good and holy. Just because sometimes things happen it doesn’t make it not right to try and do so.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Tantum_ergo]

DO you think God saw my bare head or saw my loving heart?

I don’t think that God put it into a false dichotomy of ‘either/or’.

I think that God saw your bare head AND your loving heart. When you went into church, you thought you had your veil on. It’s not as if you went in deliberately without one. It’s not as if you had even carelessly forgotten.

So God saw what really was (bare head) but knew it was not your intent to flout him (loving heart).

He saw both and He understood both, so there is no reason to be concerned over the misinterpretation that this was either ‘simply’ the bare head or ‘simply’ the loving heart. . .that it wasn’t ‘just’ not doing the ‘letter of the law’ through circumstances outside your control but instead (not 'together with) a situation where the ‘spirit’ was complied with anyway.

Please, please, let’s stop the wrongly intepreted ‘either/or’ scenarios. They’re divisive when they shouldn’t be.

Especially coming from somebody with such a mondo cool name. I LOVE Red Rose tea!

 

[redrosetea]

Its a good thing to do if it makes you feel better about yourself…I am fine with my barehead…I would never tell anyone else not to wear one, but I refuse to wear one just to make someone else feel better

I can see we have a few tea drinkers on this forum…I now get my tea from Ireland and Austraila… so I guess I am international

 

[catharina]

Its a good thing to do if it makes you feel better about yourself…I am fine with my barehead…I would never tell anyone else not to wear one, but I refuse to wear one just to make someone else feel better

I can see we have a few tea drinkers on this forum…I now get my tea from Ireland and Austraila… so I guess I am international

My tea? Ordinary Jasmine Green Tea from Chinese friends and good old American Chamomile form Oregon.

 

[catharina]

I don’t think that God put it into a false dichotomy of ‘either/or’.

I think that God saw your bare head AND your loving heart. When you went into church, you thought you had your veil on. It’s not as if you went in deliberately without one. It’s not as if you had even carelessly forgotten.

So God saw what really was (bare head) but knew it was not your intent to flout him (loving heart).

He saw both and He understood both, so there is no reason to be concerned over the misinterpretation that this was either ‘simply’ the bare head or ‘simply’ the loving heart. . .that it wasn’t ‘just’ not doing the ‘letter of the law’ through circumstances outside your control but instead (not 'together with) a situation where the ‘spirit’ was complied with anyway.

Please, please, let’s stop the wrongly intepreted ‘either/or’ scenarios. What a grand idea. That would be perfectly lovely.

They’re divisive when they shouldn’t be.

Especially coming from somebody with such a mondo cool name. I LOVE Red Rose tea!