Should "youth Masses" be different?

[VociMike]

There is a widespread assumption in Catholic circles that Masses for young people (“youth Masses”) must be different from “ordinary” Masses. The music must be different (rock-based), the style must be different (exuberant and informal), etc.

So, is this assumption justified? Do young people benefit from such liturgies? Do they even want such liturgies? Do they eventually “mainstream” and come to appreciate and desire the very different music and style of e.g. a Papal Mass?

I’d especially like to hear from younger people on this question.

 

[Freshman88]

I know that my Catholic friends and I were ostracized by such masses. We prefer more Orthodox and Traditional forms of worship, always have.

That’s all I have to really say from experience - I distance myself from such groups because I fear that behind bad liturgy is bad theology. Rightly or wrongly, I feel more comfortable in orthodox settings and so that’s where I remain.

So no, I do not think that youth masses have to be different.

 

[japhy]

I’m 26. I was once younger.

When I was younger, I wasn’t exposed to LifeTeen or youth-oriented Masses so much, although the parish at my college was essentially student-run (with the exception of the priest) and it was basically a college-student-oriented Mass. I’ve never felt comfortable with “Contemporary Christian Music” being played at Mass. The parish I grew up at now has a sing-songy call-and-response word-changing “Our Father”. It is out of place. It changed “give us this day our daily bread” to “give us today all that we need”. It’s campy and cheesy and silly.

To sum up how I feel about “youth Masses”, here’s the ending of a blog post I wrote nearly a year ago. (Editorial note: If you read the post, I make some comments about the Novus Ordo, now the “Ordinary Form”. Since a year ago, I have grown less fond of the Ordinary Form of the Mass – even though it’s the only one I have access to. I don’t think it is “inferior”, but I am curious if it is “another rite”. At the very least, it represents a desire to avoid certain elements found in the Extraordinary Form. But I digress.)

The heart of the matter is that I don’t think we need to concoct a Mass (a “liturgy lite” as I refer to it in my comments at Katerina’s site) to cater to younger Catholics. I think more time should be spent focusing on proper catechesis, on teaching the liturgy as it is and fostering respect for it. I don’t deny that younger Catholics can feel out of place and un-attended-to, but Youth Ministry needn’t avoid the liturgy in reaching the younger generations. It should embrace it and make it embraceable to a group that may need extra assistance in finding the beauty and grace in something that might seem “old”.

G. K. Chesterton said that we don’t need a church that moves with the world, we need a church that moves the world. I recognize the truth of that statement when I consider the various compromises and changes being found in other denominations these past several years (such as renaming the Persons of the Trinity to be politically correct). When the Church becomes just an expression of our temporal fancies and preferences, the Mass ceases to be the vehicle by which God invites us to share in the Holy Sacrifice of the Lord.

 

[Joysong]

Maybe it would be a good question to ask the Popes who hold World Youth Days in which a mass is celebrated. Do any of us believe the focus there is silence and gregorian chant?
I am really edified by the immense throngs of young people who attend these. God bless Pope John Paul II who envisioned the hunger in youth and met the need! And God bless Benedict XVI for following through with this!

The Church has also sanctioned special Eucharistic Prayers specific to youth that are not used in ordinary liturgies.

Personally, I do not think these liturgies should be scheduled weekly, but I don’t think a monthly mass geared to youth is unconventional. That would be only 12 per year.

 

[VociMike]

Personally, I do not think these liturgies should be scheduled weekly, but I don’t think a monthly mass geared to youth is unconventional. That would be only 12 per year.

I’m curious as to why you think this (that “youth Masses” every week is too much)?

 

[puzzleannie]

yes for the same reason Masses for younger children should be different.

however the assumptions made by those who plan such events, esp about music, are to my mind and according to comments of young people involved, way off the mark and often patronizing. for one thing, if you want to use contemporary music, fine, but make sure it is their era, not yours, 60s and 80s don’t fly with these kids. There is a wealth of good solid contemporary Christian praise music out there, and a growing solid base of good music for Catholic liturgy, so use it and lose the Kumbaya and Gather stuff. also if Gregorian chant is introduced and taught properly kids love it, they also love a Latin Mass, they also love a Mass done properly, formally, ritually correct, solemnly and with all indication that this is a connection with the divine, not another concert with bad acoustics.

oh yeah, if you are going to use “their” music make sure your performers and sound system are up to it, and that the cantors are liturgically trained and know the order of the Mass, what to say and sing when and where.

like Masses for children these events should be limited on the governing assumption that there are no private or exclusive Masses. Mass is the Sunday assembly of the entire community, parish or otherwise based, it is repeated only when the space does not accommodate the entire community and was never meant to be a series of exclusive events for mutually exclusive groups among the parish.

 

[AlexV]

The so-called Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children are of course valid, but I think a reasonable case could be made that they are disasters in practice.

No question they are unheard of in the history of the liturgy; Vatican II did not call for them; they were the creation (out of whole cloth) of Bugnini’s congregation, and they were NOT inserted into the Missal definitively until 2002 (where, bizarre indeed, they appear in Latin, complete with a little note telling you that of course they are not meant to be used in Latin, but the Latin is there to serve as a basis for translation).

Interestingly, Bugnini’s “Directory for Masses with Children” actually contains a discouragement from bringing children to Mass every day. Bugnini deserves credit for being the first congregational secretary to get a decree published that actually discourages Mass attendance.

As for World Youth Days…just because a pope does something doesn’t make it desirable or laudable.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Isn’t the Eucharistic Sacrifice supposed to the the ONE THING (if not the major thing) that expresses the unity in Christ of ALL the disparate groups of people in the Church?

Not only that expresses this unity, but creates it?

 

[Phemie]

When we had a monthly ‘Youth Mass’ in our parish it was the only Mass on Sunday (there was an anticipated Sunday Mass on Saturday evening). Far from leading the youth to an adult liturgy, many families only ever showed up for the Youth Mass, the music was Christian worship stuff that was of abysmal quality and not always theologically sound. It became their only experience of Mass thus fostered the idea that that was how Mass was supposed to be.

When it was suggested that different (read “more liturgically sound”) hymns might be used the adult musician’s response was “The kids don’t want to sing that.” We finally figured out that the kids were never offered “that” because she didn’t want to play the traditional hymns that didn’t lend themselves to her country style guitar strumming.

She played what she wanted including a version of the Our Father set to “I Don’t Know How to Love Him” from Jesus Christ Superstar, something very disconcerting to those of us who grew up with that song. When we were supposed to be praying to our God, the words “He’s a man, he’s just a man, and I’ve had so many men before, in very many ways he’s just one more” were running through my head. She couldn’t figure out why that was a problem.

Thankfully that Youth Mass was abandoned.

 

[LauraSings]

I ought to start out by explaining that I am a product of the 1970s “Jesus Movement,” and I cut my (Protestant) Christian teeth on programs from Campus Crusade for Christ and Intervarsity Christian Fellowship - and on music from people like 2d Chapter of Acts, Keith Green, Resurrection Band, Dallas Holm… I remember John Michael Talbot when he was a Protestant and one of the first recording artists for Sparrow Records.

Now, in retrospect, I see a LOT of problems with the sort of segregation being promoted as “LifeTeen Masses.”

They promote ROTTEN theology, reducing Our Lord and Savior to “Buddy Jesus.”

They promote a carelessness and overfamiliarity with the Creator of the Cosmos.

They compromise on the dignity and beauty of the liturgy of the Church.

The music at these is often insipid and even heretical.

It’s an insult to teens to suggest that they aren’t mature enough to join the real Communion of the Faith with the older folks.

I think the cultural needs of a younger generation to discover the pertinence of Faith, and its expression in a manner that is meaningful to them, would be better expressed in an informal coffeehouse setting separate and distinct from the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[puzzleannie]

if you want another among dozens LIFE TEEN thread I suggest you start one.

I also think if we are going to discuss Children’s Mass or Teen Mass we should discuss the Mass as intended in the rubrics, not simply repeat amusing anecdotes about bad Mass days we have witnessed.

 

[Digitonomy]

You are asking two distinct questions:
Should “youth masses” be different, and
Should there be “youth masses”?

My answers are an emphatic yes, and maybe.

If you’re going to call something a youth mass, presumably there should be something to distinguish it and justify that name. If there were to be say a Republican mass, I assume there would be something different about them - songs about pious elephants? Dissection of the party platform in the homily?

It’s kind of like asking,
“Should a rocket car be different?” Obviously it should.
“Should there be a rocket car?” I really don’t know.

 

[Joysong]

Puzzleannie:

like Masses for children these events should be limited on the governing assumption that there are no private or exclusive Masses. Mass is the Sunday assembly of the entire community.

Voci-Mike, in answer to your question, as to why I would limit these liturgies to once monthly, I think annie’s answer coincides with my views. Census-wise, youth are the minority in an assembly. I have seen masses that worked well for them on a week night after regular catechetical lessons, and that too, is occasional. The pastor is free to gear the entire homily, accordingly, to their age group.

A few other points are secondary, such as getting these children to weekly rehearsals with their busy schedules. Half-hazardly showing up to sing without solid training beforehand would result in very inadequate ministry.

There is an old saying in Proverbs 25:17, “Let your foot be seldom in your neighbor’s house, lest he have more than enough of you, and hate you.” This is another consideration that would apply to both the youth, who may become less enthused about serving, given their rapacious restlessness and difficulty with commitment, and some adults who would weary of remaining tolerant after several weeks of exposure.

 

[benedictgal]

Maybe it would be a good question to ask the Popes who hold World Youth Days in which a mass is celebrated. Do any of us believe the focus there is silence and gregorian chant?
I am really edified by the immense throngs of young people who attend these. God bless Pope John Paul II who envisioned the hunger in youth and met the need! And God bless Benedict XVI for following through with this!

The Church has also sanctioned special Eucharistic Prayers specific to youth that are not used in ordinary liturgies.

Personally, I do not think these liturgies should be scheduled weekly, but I don’t think a monthly mass geared to youth is unconventional. That would be only 12 per year.

Joysong, you are misinterpreting the two Eucharistic Prayers as these are only for children 12 and under, and, they are only to be said when these children constitute the MAJORITY of the faithful present for these Masses (school Mass, retreat).

Now, Pope Benedict has only had one Youth Day Mass. With the change in the Papal Master of Ceremonies and with the changes the Holy Father is implementing in the liturgies for St. Peter’s, I suspect that you will see a very different World Youth Day liturgy.

Furthermore, I do not think that “young people” need a Mass for themselves. The particular music used does not speak to the Mystery that unfolds before us at every Mass. I walked out of such a Mass when I was in college (no kneeling, feel-good experience with no substance). This was not the kind of ministry that Pope John Paul II was envisioning.

Incidentally, Francis Cardinal Arinze observed that at the last World Youth Day (2005) he celebrated a TLM and a Holy Hour and the young people filled the huge church to capacity. You can’t very well say that young people aren’t attracted to something that features Gregorian Chant and Latin.

 

[japhy]

Vatican II did not call for them; they were the creation (out of whole cloth) of Bugnini’s congregation, and they were NOT inserted into the Missal definitively until 2002 (where, bizarre indeed, they appear in Latin, complete with a little note telling you that of course they are not meant to be used in Latin, but the Latin is there to serve as a basis for translation).

That is bizarre. And, if there’s one thing I’ve learned in the past year of reading Church documents, we have a lot of things Vatican II did not call for (and quite a few things it stressed avoidance of).

Interestingly, Bugnini’s “Directory for Masses with Children” actually contains a discouragement from bringing children to Mass every day. Bugnini deserves credit for being the first congregational secretary to get a decree published that actually discourages Mass attendance.

Please tell me the current Directory does not include that. Please.

As for World Youth Days…just because a pope does something doesn’t make it desirable or laudable.

I think Pope Benedict and his new Master of Ceremonies will bring a refreshingly traditional and reverent celebration of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to WYD. I hope they bring such a celebration to the United States in April. And there’s always Juventutem.

 

[AlexV]

“27. Weekday Mass in which children participate can certainly be celebrated with greater effect and less danger of boredom if it does not take place every day (for example, in boarding schools). Moreover, preparation can be more careful if there is a longer interval between diverse celebrations. [Notitia 1]”

There you have it, folks. Vintage Bugnini. The underlying Bugnini thesis is always the same: we were ignorant fools for millenia until Bugnini. Then we suddenly learned all about liturgy. And yes, this paragraph remains in the 2002 Missal.

 

[VociMike]

You are asking two distinct questions:
Should “youth masses” be different, and
Should there be “youth masses”?

My answers are an emphatic yes, and maybe.

If you’re going to call something a youth mass, presumably there should be something to distinguish it and justify that name. If there were to be say a Republican mass, I assume there would be something different about them - songs about pious elephants? Dissection of the party platform in the homily?

It’s kind of like asking,
“Should a rocket car be different?” Obviously it should.
“Should there be a rocket car?” I really don’t know.

You raise a good point or two.

A “youth Mass” could be a Mass for an existing group of young people (at a retreat, a conference, a high school, etc). But it could also be a Mass designed to attract young people. Your “rocket car” example corresponds to the latter, but not to the former.

Clearly, the former are legitimate Masses. The question then becomes “should Masses with a predominantly young attendance be different, and if so, how?”

The latter types of Mass are another matter. Should Masses be explicitly designed to attract young people? And if so, how? Why would young people need “special” Masses to attract them? Is “normal” Catholic liturgy not good enough, and if not, why not? And are young people actually attracted to such “youth Masses”? Or are as many or more actually repelled by them as are attracted by them?

 

[lizaanne]

I don’t really see a need for them, but then again I’m 43 .

The teens I know personally prefer a full out TLM - smells and bells kids all the way. They absolutely hate the teen Mass at their previous parish.

For awhile, about 4 years ago, I was attending my previous parish’s teen Mass. I absolutely LOVED the music - it was a full jazz band, extremely tallented people, and the music was wonderful. Then I realized that they were becoming my reason for being there. I stopped going to that Mass immediately and started attending earlier in the day to a “normal” Sunday Mass.

There is a very very fine line when you start turning Mass into entertainment that needs to be considered. We want our young people going for the right reasons - not because it’s fun, the music is uplifting, and they have a good time. It is important they do not loose their focus, and honestly, I don’t think a lot of parish youth formation leaders are equiped to ensure that doesn’t happen.

~Liza

 

[japhy]

Should Masses be explicitly designed to attract young people? And if so, how? Why would young people need “special” Masses to attract them? Is “normal” Catholic liturgy not good enough, and if not, why not? And are young people actually attracted to such “youth Masses”? Or are as many or more actually repelled by them as are attracted by them?

I’d like to go to a liturgy for 26-year-olds only, please.

 

[Joysong]

The Church has also sanctioned special Eucharistic Prayers specific to youth that are not used in ordinary liturgies

.

Joysong, you are misinterpreting the two Eucharistic Prayers as these are only for children 12 and under, and, they are only to be said when these children constitute the MAJORITY of the faithful present for these Masses (school Mass, retreat).

I would say you are again reading my words with foggy glasses, or an intent to engender argument and demean, in the name of instructing this ignorant woman’s misinterpretation. Is there no end to this? I merely made a comment that they exist for youth and are NOT used in ordinary liturgies. Your assumption: I did not understand they were for use when children are the majority, simply because I omitted the exact wording you used, yet it was implied in my original statement.

Enough.