Should "youth Masses" be different?

[AlexV]

They exist for youths 12 and under. Not teenagers of say 15-16.

A teenager of 15-16 would laugh hysterically at the idea that the language of those canons was meant for him.

 

[jmdsc]

I was always taught that the word “Catholic” itself means “ALL”.

I would prefer that children be taught to love the liturgy “as is” rather than making up different situations that, by name and definition, excludes part of the “ALL”.

 

[AlexV]

The Church did just fine without “children’s liturgies” until c. 1974. It’s rather arrogant to imagine that for almost 2 millenia people knew nothing about children and the liturgy, only suddenly to discover how to “reach” children in 1974.

 

[whatevergirl]

There is a widespread assumption in Catholic circles that Masses for young people (“youth Masses”) must be different from “ordinary” Masses. The music must be different (rock-based), the style must be different (exuberant and informal), etc.

So, is this assumption justified? Do young people benefit from such liturgies? Do they even want such liturgies? Do they eventually “mainstream” and come to appreciate and desire the very different music and style of e.g. a Papal Mass?

I’d especially like to hear from younger people on this question.

At our teen mass, the only thing that is different is that the kids from the youth group (usually juniors and seniors in high school) make up the choir…and there are more teens in attendance. Other than that, it is a formal and traditional mass. My son who is 15 enjoyed it, because the homily is directed for the youth’s benefit, and he enjoyed seeing kids his own age, a altar servers, and in the choir. Other than that though…the mass is no different, from a formality standpoint, than any mass we attend as a family. I personally like the teen mass too–it is nice to see a mass time set aside to bring the youth of our parish together. It is not necessary–I don’t recall ‘teen’ masses when I was a teen, but I think that it is special when a parish offers such a mass. Just my two cents.:twocents:

 

[kwitz]

I’ve been trying to formulate a question for some time along these lines - desparately trying not to offend anyone but also knowing how things are misinterpretated via the internet and knowing how sensitive this topic is. So anyway - here it goes.

I’m speaking as someone who attends neither the LifeTeen Mass at my parish (although both of my teenagers do and love it) nor do I go to a EF Mass (although it is on my New Year’s resolution to see what it’s all about).

What I don’t understand is so many times I see is that “some” of those on this forum arguing against a separate Mass for teens are the very same people who insist on a separate EF for them - and vice versa.

To me, it seems a double standard. It’s OK for “us” to have our special teen Mass but the TLM should be limited (again, it could be vice versa).

Both sides go to extreme examples - ie kids around the altar, latin mumbled (none which should happen but probably do occasionally) etc to “prove” their point.

As always, I know not everyone from either side falls into this category.

Hopefully, that made some sense and if I was offensive - I was equal opportunity!

Kris

 

[Joysong]

What I don’t understand is so many times I see is that “some” of those on this forum arguing against a separate Mass for teens are the very same people who insist on a separate EF for them - and vice versa.

You said a mouthful, my friend! To take it a step further, the ones who insist on a separate EF are not content to have one monthly, but I have seen posts that demand (yes, demand) that it be daily!

What is not apparent in these posts, is that while some of us have defended the cause for those who wish to enjoy the EF, while not relishing it for themselves, it is for the same reason that defense is offered for those who desire a youth mass – likewise again, not relishing it for themselves.

 

[AlexV]

Difference is pretty big, of course. The Roman Rite has a codified Extraordinary Form. It has certain provisions for children (NOT young adults, take note) that are also clearly codified. “Life Teen”, for example, isn’t part of the Roman Rite.

End of story.

 

[VociMike]

I’ve been trying to formulate a question for some time along these lines - desparately trying not to offend anyone but also knowing how things are misinterpretated via the internet and knowing how sensitive this topic is. So anyway - here it goes.

I’m speaking as someone who attends neither the LifeTeen Mass at my parish (although both of my teenagers do and love it) nor do I go to a EF Mass (although it is on my New Year’s resolution to see what it’s all about).

What I don’t understand is so many times I see is that “some” of those on this forum arguing against a separate Mass for teens are the very same people who insist on a separate EF for them - and vice versa.

To me, it seems a double standard. It’s OK for “us” to have our special teen Mass but the TLM should be limited (again, it could be vice versa).

Both sides go to extreme examples - ie kids around the altar, latin mumbled (none which should happen but probably do occasionally) etc to “prove” their point.

As always, I know not everyone from either side falls into this category.

Hopefully, that made some sense and if I was offensive - I was equal opportunity!

Kris

I know this wasn’t your intention, but you have just effectively derailed this thread.

 

[agapewolf]

Difference is pretty big, of course. The Roman Rite has a codified Extraordinary Form. It has certain provisions for children (NOT young adults, take note) that are also clearly codified. “Life Teen”, for example, isn’t part of the Roman Rite.

End of story.

Actually, not end of story.

I didn’t want to get into yet another one of these, becasue no doubt people will jump on me and my experiences.

The vatican has promoted and encouraged the “youth Mass” ministry model. They have approved LT not only as a ministry model, and mass, but also as an official “lay association of the Christian faithful” . Cardinal Arinze himself is in close contact with Lifeteen, and has himself given his OK.

 

[benedictgal]

Actually, not end of story.

I didn’t want to get into yet another one of these, becasue no doubt people will jump on me and my experiences.

The vatican has promoted and encouraged the “youth Mass” ministry model. They have approved LT not only as a ministry model, and mass, but also as an official “lay association of the Christian faithful” . Cardinal Arinze himself is in close contact with Lifeteen, and has himself given his OK.

He has agreed with it to a certain extent, agapewolf. It is not a blanket authorization as he has already told LifeTeen that they cannot have the kids around the altar. Furthermore, LifeTeen is not codified, nor has it been given indult status. It runs the same danger that the NeoCatechumenal movement has had because it took excessive liberties with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to the point that Pope Benedict XVI gave them a two-year moratorium to clean up. The two years have now ended and they cannot celebrate the Mass in their own way. They must adhere to the Roman Missal.

Remember, that during Lineamata (working document) for the 2005 Synod on the Eucharists, the bishops listed “Youth Mass” as one of the shadows.

One interesting note about LifeTeen and Youth Masses: I called EWTN on a different matter and the convesation turned to LifeTeen. I asked one of their liturgists about the movement and they said that LifeTeen had approached them about televising one of their Masses. EWTN declined because of the form and manner (inclusive of the music) LifeTeen used in handling the Mass.

 

[VociMike]

Actually, not end of story.

I didn’t want to get into yet another one of these, becasue no doubt people will jump on me and my experiences.

The vatican has promoted and encouraged the “youth Mass” ministry model. They have approved LT not only as a ministry model, and mass, but also as an official “lay association of the Christian faithful” . Cardinal Arinze himself is in close contact with Lifeteen, and has himself given his OK.

What is the “youth Mass ministry model”? What does it include? Why is it a “better” Mass for young people? Do young people prefer it over other styles of Mass? Do they benefit from it over other styles of Mass? Do they enter adulthood with a stronger, more well-formed faith having experienced the “youth Mass ministry model” as teens, then those teens who attended other styles of Mass?

 

[japhy]

Remember, that during Lineamata (working document) for the 2005 Synod on the Eucharists, the bishops listed “Youth Mass” as one of the shadows.

Just so other people know what benedictgal is talking about, the Synod of Bishops, when it is preparing the agenda for its meetings, first produces a Lineamenta, which is a glorified outline with questions for the bishops to consider and answer, which drives the Instrumentum Laboris, the next document in the chain.

In the Lineamenta for the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist as the Source and Summit of the Life and Mission of the Church, part of Chapter III was subtitled “Lights and Shadows in Appreciating the Gift”; let me quote part of it:
The lights which come from the Eucharist as sacrament need to be separated from the shadows which come from human deeds. For example, there are indications in Eucharistic catechesis and practice of an overemphasis on a single aspect, e.g., on the Eucharist as meal, on the baptismal common priesthood, on the sufficiency of a Liturgy of the Word only and on ecumenical practices at Mass which are contrary to the faith and discipline of the Church.

Ritual practices need to regain a sense of the totality of the mystery of the Eucharist, understood to be: the Word of God proclaimed, the community gathered with a priest who celebrates in persona Christi, the rendering of thanks to God the Father for his gifts, the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of the Lord, his sacramental presence as a result of the Lord’s words of consecration, the offering to the Father of the sacrifice of the Cross and communion with the Body and Blood of the risen Christ.
Questions from this section were:
In the Encyclical Letter Ecclesia De Eucharistia (n. 10) the Holy Father mentions “shadows” in the celebration of the Eucharist. What are the negative aspects (abuses, misunderstandings) existing in Eucharistic worship? What elements or actions done in practice can obscure the profound sense of the Eucharistic mystery? What is the cause of such a disorienting situation for the faithful?

 

[japhy]

(Continuing from my previous post.)

Remember, that during Lineamata (working document) for the 2005 Synod on the Eucharists, the bishops listed “Youth Mass” as one of the shadows.

The responses from the Lineamenta were worked into the Instrumentum Laboris; here are a couple excerpts:
Shadows in the Celebration of the Eucharist
27. … It is widely held that Christ’s presence is a result of the community and not Christ himself, who is the font and centre of our communion and head of his Body, the Church.

Neglect of prayer, contemplation and adoration of the Eucharistic mystery has weakened the sense of the sacred in relation to this great Sacrament.

…

Some liturgical celebrations suffer from an improper balance, ranging from a passive following of rituals to an excessive creativity which sometimes draws too much attention to the celebrant of the Eucharist. The latter is often characterized by lengthy commentaries which do not allow the Eucharistic mystery to speak for itself through liturgical signs and formulas.

…

Liturgical Song
62. … [Some responses] lamented the poor quality of translations of liturgical texts and many musical texts in current languages, maintaining that they lacked beauty and were sometimes theologically unclear, thereby contributing to a weakening of Church teaching and to a misunderstanding of prayer. A few responses made particular mention of music and singing at Youth Masses. In this regard, it is important to avoid musical forms which, because of their profane use, are not conducive to prayer.

 

[agapewolf]

What is the “youth Mass ministry model”? What does it include? Why is it a “better” Mass for young people? Do young people prefer it over other styles of Mass? Do they benefit from it over other styles of Mass? Do they enter adulthood with a stronger, more well-formed faith having experienced the “youth Mass ministry model” as teens, then those teens who attended other styles of Mass?

Yes yes yes and yes. For many.

 

[VociMike]

Yes yes yes and yes. For many.

Not at all helpful without answering the first questions in the list:

What is the “youth Mass ministry model”?
What does it include?
Why is it a “better” Mass for young people?

 

[agapewolf]

Not at all helpful without answering the first questions in the list:

What is the “youth Mass ministry model”?
What does it include?
Why is it a “better” Mass for young people?

Honestly, as I said before, I can talk about it, but no doubt…it will be another free for all. I dont’ want to get into this again. I’m tired. Exhausted really.

You can do research about it…Lifeteen has an excellent program.

 

[benedictgal]

Honestly, as I said before, I can talk about it, but no doubt…it will be another free for all. I dont’ want to get into this again. I’m tired. Exhausted really.

You can do research about it…Lifeteen has an excellent program.

Agapewolf, it’s not the merits of LifeTeen that are in question, it is the program’s handling of the Liturgy. The same concept holds true for the NeoCatechumenal Way. The Holy Father didn’t have an issue with their catechesis. The huge problem stems from the way the Mass is celebrated. I have personally seen the NeoCatechumenal form of the Mass. It is something entirely different from the Ordinary Form, in fact, it barely resembles the OF.

Now, I’m not saying that LifeTeen Masses, or Youth Masses, resemble what goes on in the NeoCatechumenal Movement. However, Pope Benedict XVI made the Liturgy the cornerstone of his papacy. The actions he has taken, so far, indicate that he wants to right the barque of Peter where it concerns the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

You might need to step back and separate the two aspects of LifeTeen. The program, itself, may have merits (I can’t speak to something I haven’t experienced); however, having gone to a couple of the LifeTeen Masses, I can certainly see where the problems lie.

 

[Michael_Welter]

I don’t think we can lump all youth together, and say yes, or no, they don’t need a Mass geared toward them. No two people are exactly alike. That’s why we have different styles of music available at different Masses. There are some things that must remain the same at all Masses. There are other things which can be different for different Masses, and music is one of them.

I’m not a youth, but attend our Life Teen Mass, because the contemporary music touches me and draws me into worship. I love Gregorian Chant, but would not to attend a Mass featuring Gregorian Chant. I can’t participate, so it won’t draw me into worship. For me, Gregorian Chant is purely entertainment.

 

[VociMike]

I don’t think we can lump all youth together, and say yes, or no, they don’t need a Mass geared toward them. No two people are exactly alike.

But what does “geared toward them” even mean? As you say, no two people are exactly alike. And yet it seems to me that every “youth Mass” is exactly alike, or copies one of at most two or three models. It seems to me that the proponents of “youth Masses” do believe that all young people are exactly, or very nearly, alike.

 

[VociMike]

Honestly, as I said before, I can talk about it, but no doubt…it will be another free for all. I dont’ want to get into this again. I’m tired. Exhausted really.

You can do research about it…Lifeteen has an excellent program.

Does this mean that “Lifeteen Masses” are synonymous with “youth Masses”?