Should "youth Masses" be different?

[Michael_Welter]

But what does “geared toward them” even mean? As you say, no two people are exactly alike. And yet it seems to me that every “youth Mass” is exactly alike, or copies one of at most two or three models. It seems to me that the proponents of “youth Masses” do believe that all young people are exactly, or very nearly, alike.

Not all youth are required to go to youth Masses. Many youth, as have stated here, prefer different Masses. I have been to many youth Masses, and they don’t all use the same music, or musical styles, but they do tend to use more contemporary music.

 

[japhy]

Not all youth are required to go to youth Masses. Many youth, as have stated here, prefer different Masses. I have been to many youth Masses, and they don’t all use the same music, or musical styles, but they do tend to use more contemporary music.

Of course they’re not required to go to “youth Masses”. But you’ve hit on a point here: the youth Masses you’ve attended don’t use the same music or necessarily the same style of music, but they do tend to use contemporary music. That tendency is an important one. It can imply that teens (or younger people in general) need newer (more contemporary) music, for whatever reason… to encourage them to participate more by singing, or to make them feel at home, or something. (I don’t know for sure.)

Do the teens themselves choose this music? Or has it already been selected for them when they get there? (Probably the latter.) If it is the latter, how was it determined that teens do “need” this contemporary music?

If you get a newborn puppy as a pet and restrict its diet to some food group in particular (to the exclusion of others), that puppy might eventually “need” that food group… but it didn’t have to be so. You created that “need”.

This, I think, is what VociMike is trying to do, by the way. I wish people would stop thinking he’s being vociferous (unless that’s what the “Voci” part means…) and nasty and sarcastic and tactless. He’s been asking questions that deserve intelligent, thoughtful, and thorough answers. I think I’ve made an attempt at providing one such answer.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Excellent points, and I think the issue isn’t that teends, or youth in general, “need” any particular style of music. Life Teen, or other youth Masses, offer a contemporary style for those who prefer it. I’m 49, and I prefer it. The Church, in her wisdom, allows us to offer different musical styles in different Masses, to meet the preferrences of a diverse church.

 

[benedictgal]

Excellent points, and I think the issue isn’t that teends, or youth in general, “need” any particular style of music. Life Teen, or other youth Masses, offer a contemporary style for those who prefer it. I’m 49, and I prefer it. The Church, in her wisdom, allows us to offer different musical styles in different Masses, to meet the preferrences of a diverse church.

I would suggest that you read Pope Benedict’s excellent book, “The Spirit of the Liturgy” as he makes some very compelling and convincing arguments regarding the use of “rock music” in the liturgy. I have heard some of the contemporary music and it is more Protestant praise pop than it is suitable for use in the Mass.

Remember, too, that the Holy Father wrote in Sacramentum Caritatis that “we cannot say that one song is as good as another” when it comes to the Mass.

The Church, in her wisdom, does allow different styles; however, not all music is suitable for the Holy Sacrifice.

 

[jmcrae]

yes for the same reason Masses for younger children should be different.

however the assumptions made by those who plan such events, esp about music, are to my mind and according to comments of young people involved, way off the mark and often patronizing. for one thing, if you want to use contemporary music, fine, but make sure it is their era, not yours, 60s and 80s don’t fly with these kids.

Off topic, but just wanted to comment before reading the rest of the thread; one of the most eye-opening things for me working with high school age kids this year, is that they are “into” Pink Floyd, the Beatles, and Queen. I am quite astounded, since, of all things, this is not what I was expecting.

As to the folk sounds of previous eras, you are right; they are way too sappy for this crowd. I would recommend not trying to cater to their tastes at all, but just to bring on some really good, really solid hymnody that is what it claims to be.

 

[benedictgal]

Off topic, but just wanted to comment before reading the rest of the thread; one of the most eye-opening things for me working with high school age kids this year, is that they are “into” Pink Floyd, the Beatles, and Queen. I am quite astounded, since, of all things, this is not what I was expecting.

As to the folk sounds of previous eras, you are right; they are way too sappy for this crowd. I would recommend not trying to cater to their tastes at all, but just to bring on some really good, really solid hymnody that is what it claims to be.

You get a big AMEN from me!

 

[cmudd]

Honestly, as I said before, I can talk about it, but no doubt…it will be another free for all. I dont’ want to get into this again. I’m tired. Exhausted really.

You can do research about it…Lifeteen has an excellent program.

Lifeteen is ridiculous!!! It was started by a guy who is currently under investigation for having numerous sexual encounters with teenage boys. The bishop of his diocese has sent out a warning to his flock to avoid any *Worship Services *over which he presides. The man’s priestly faculties have been suspended but he continues to operate, and with various protestant communities no less!

When I was a teen, I had the great misfortune of attending many a Lifeteen mass. It was embarrassing! There were an inordinate number of middle-aged divorcees who appeared far more energized by the rock-theme than the teenagers who they dragged there. Then, in the sanctuary you had the 10-20 social cast-offs who had been mislead to believe that the mass needs to be an expression of their own culture. They seemed to be the only teens into what was going on.

Like other gaudy and banal innovations, the “youth mass” (which is the term used to justify any number of liturgical innovations at masses for infants to thirty-somethings) and/or Lifeteen mass operate under the un-Aristotelian yoke of subjectivity. Unlike the tradition prayer of the mass, which is formulated on the millennia-old notion that everything has a distinct and unalterable nature (including man), the “youth mass” is an expression of our subjective feelings.

Throughout the history of the Church, the sacred liturgy was formed and molded into something that was a natural expression of what man’s devotion to God needed to be. The Church says, “Man’s nature dictates that we use certain gestures and music to uplift the spirit so that it can better reflect on his relationship with God.” Lifeteen says, “Young people are bored and need to be emotionally engaged in the mass if they will ever be interested.” Never seemed to be a problem over the last 1500 years, but, we can go with that idea…

The innovations in many liturgies suggest that men need different expressions for different ages/sexes/classes/etc… This is subjectivism and does not reflect Catholic tradition.

In summation, “youth masses” are a flawed experiment because they incorrectly rely on the subjective emotional response of individuals rather than appeal to their innate desire to worship God spiritually, emotionally, intellectually, etc…

 

[Michael_Welter]

I would suggest that you read Pope Benedict’s excellent book, “The Spirit of the Liturgy” as he makes some very compelling and convincing arguments regarding the use of “rock music” in the liturgy. I have heard some of the contemporary music and it is more Protestant praise pop than it is suitable for use in the Mass.

Remember, too, that the Holy Father wrote in Sacramentum Caritatis that “we cannot say that one song is as good as another” when it comes to the Mass.

The Church, in her wisdom, does allow different styles; however, not all music is suitable for the Holy Sacrifice.

I have read “The Spirit of the Liturgy”. It’s an excellent book, and I’m trying to get more people from my parish to read it. I completely agree that not all music is suitable for the Liturgy. I’ve also attended Mass with Pope Benedict XVI, in which contemporary music was used. Our Church will never ban contemporary music for the Mass, as that would be a violation of the Word of God: Sing a new song unto the Lord.

 

[japhy]

I’ve also attended Mass with Pope Benedict XVI, in which contemporary music was used.

The Pope does not micromanage every liturgy he attends; furthermore, he only recently replaced the former Master of Papal Ceremonies with a far more properly liturgically-minded man. Slowly, but certainly, you will see the Masses he celebrates reflect a much more solemn, traditional, and timeless sentiment.

Our Church will never ban contemporary music for the Mass, as that would be a violation of the Word of God: Sing a new song unto the Lord.

Well, until the Church releases its official interpretation on Ps 98[97]:1, I think that’s a bit hasty.

 

[benedictgal]

I have read “The Spirit of the Liturgy”. It’s an excellent book, and I’m trying to get more people from my parish to read it. I completely agree that not all music is suitable for the Liturgy. I’ve also attended Mass with Pope Benedict XVI, in which contemporary music was used. Our Church will never ban contemporary music for the Mass, as that would be a violation of the Word of God: Sing a new song unto the Lord.

Remember, though, that the Mass to which you refer was the first World Youth Day over which Pope Benedict XVI presided. Furthermore, Archbishop Marini was his MC. Things are going to be different, I suspect, and the tone of the next WYD Mass will really bear Benedict’s stamp. If you notice, the Masses celebrated by our Holy Father have taken on a much greater degree of solemnity and the music is far better than it was when he began his reign.

The Church may not ban the music entirely, but, I suspect that once the proposed Office of Liturgical Music gets off the ground, things are going to get mighty interesting. By the way, it would not be a violation of the Word of God because, remember, the hymns must also conform to Catholic dogma and doctrine, which a lot of the contemporary hymns do not. That is why the Synod Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist raised a great deal of concern regarding the use of music in Youth Masses. There are songs out there that have dubious lyrics that promote questionable theology.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

There is a widespread assumption in Catholic circles that Masses for young people (“youth Masses”) must be different from “ordinary” Masses. The music must be different (rock-based), the style must be different (exuberant and informal), etc.

So, is this assumption justified? Do young people benefit from such liturgies? Do they even want such liturgies? Do they eventually “mainstream” and come to appreciate and desire the very different music and style of e.g. a Papal Mass?

I’d especially like to hear from younger people on this question.

No
No
Some
No

When they grow up and are no longer being entertained, they simply don’t know what to do. They seem to simply stop coming to Mass beacuse they are no longer being entertained or seek out the entertainment style of other Christian Communities.

 

[St_Aloysius]

I like the Youth Masses I’ve been a part of. They’ve been as orthodox as the regular Masses and have a lot more spirit to them, IMHO. (And, no, I don’t mean just the music. I mean, as far as kids participating and getting into it.)

On the other end of the spectrum, I love the Tridentine Latin Mass. I think it’s the epitome of beauty and a tradition that the Church should never forsake. But there are fewer discrepancies between these “extremes” than some would have you believe.

So long as the purpose is glorifying Christ, and is done in a proper and orthodox manner, there is no innate impediment to be found in Youth Masses. Christ is there in the Eucharist just the same–and if a Youth Mass helps kids my age (14) grasp his Presence there a little better, or helps them to join in the Prayers and Songs of the Feast, then so be it! (In my experience, this is the ONLY time you will often see such unanimous participation from teens…)

My opinion. Feel free to disagree.

Pax

 

[Homerun40968]

Absolutely not! I am 15 years old and much prefer the TLM, rather than teen mass, because the secularism and insincerity of teen mass rises to a level beyond belief. If there’s one thing I DON’T want, it’s a nonreligious social event!

 

[benedictgal]

I like the Youth Masses I’ve been a part of. They’ve been as orthodox as the regular Masses and have a lot more spirit to them, IMHO. (And, no, I don’t mean just the music. I mean, as far as kids participating and getting into it.)

On the other end of the spectrum, I love the Tridentine Latin Mass. I think it’s the epitome of beauty and a tradition that the Church should never forsake. But there are fewer discrepancies between these “extremes” than some would have you believe.

So long as the purpose is glorifying Christ, and is done in a proper and orthodox manner, there is no innate impediment to be found in Youth Masses. Christ is there in the Eucharist just the same–and if a Youth Mass helps kids my age (14) grasp his Presence there a little better, or helps them to join in the Prayers and Songs of the Feast, then so be it! (In my experience, this is the ONLY time you will often see such unanimous participation from teens…)

My opinion. Feel free to disagree.

Pax

Hello, my young friend. Just a couple of questions for you. Just what do you mean by the Youth Masses having “more spirit” to them? And, what do you mean by having the kids "participate more?

It’s a common misconception (I had this for quite a few years) that in order to “participate” in the Mass, you had to take some sort of an active role, meaning you had to serve as a lector, sing in the choir, take up the collection, be an altar server, serve as an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion and the like. Some also think that they aren’t participating if they don’t clap or sway or “get excited” by yelling “Amen” several times during the homily. But, that is not the real meaning.

Active participation means to really get into the Sacred Mysteries that are unfolding before you. It means beginning your participation even before you get to Mass, like maybe reading the Sunday readings the night before or praying on your way to Mass. It also means pouring your whole heart and your whole self into the Mass and really praying it. There is something truly out of the ordinary happening during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Active participation also means joining our humble sacrifices to Jesus’ sacrifice. We unite ourselves to Jesus.

Furthermore, it helps to be aware that the bodies inside the church aren’t the only ones present during the Mass. The angels surround the altar and adore Jesus.

The Mass is something beyond ourselves, as I mentioned in the thread you started.

Now, as I said in the thread you started, I was once your age. I’m happy that you do have an understanding for the TLM. If you go to World Youth Day, you will probably find a group that’s going to have it, and celebrated by Cardinal Arinze, no doubt.

Glad to have you on board. Your vocabulary is beyond your years, but, when I was your age, I used those words as well!

 

[VociMike]

Absolutely not! I am 15 years old and much prefer the TLM, rather than teen mass, because the secularism and insincerity of teen mass rises to a level beyond belief. If there’s one thing I DON’T want, it’s a nonreligious social event!

Why do you think teen Masses are like that? Is it the teens who make them that way, or is it the older organizers?

 

[Michael_Welter]

By the way, it would not be a violation of the Word of God because, remember, the hymns must also conform to Catholic dogma and doctrine, which a lot of the contemporary hymns do not. That is why the Synod Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist raised a great deal of concern regarding the use of music in Youth Masses. There are songs out there that have dubious lyrics that promote questionable theology.

Yes, that is very true. ALL music used in the Mass, even contemporary praise and worship music, must conform to Catholic teaching. There is much that doesn’t. But, fortunately, there is much that does.

 

[KCT]

I haven’t waded through all the posts . . .

Our parish has a youth Mass once a month. The high school age kids are lectors, cantors, EM’s and take up the collection & gifts. They do a nice job.

However, I doubt there has been much catechesis regarding the Mass. I think if the kids are properly taught, then some contemporary music that is more to their liking is not a problem.

Recently, one of the youth cantors joked about doing a rap solo during one of the songs, which makes me wonder if she sees it as a show. (i.e. lack of catechesis) —KCT

 

[japhy]

Our parish has a youth Mass once a month. The high school age kids are lectors, cantors, EM’s and take up the collection & gifts. They do a nice job. However, I doubt there has been much catechesis regarding the Mass.

Let me quote something from another thread that touches this:
What do the liturgical directors seek to accomplish? “Active participation”? If so, what else do they do to promote “active participation”? Do they teach the teens what the prayers they say mean so that they can give the assent of faith? Do they teach the teens about the parts of the Mass so they know when silence is appropriate? Do they teach the teens about “active participation” through listening and praying? Or does all “active participation” require some distinct physical manifestation: you’re not “actively participating” unless you’re in the choir, an altar server, a reader, the person who brings up the bread and wine during the Offertory… you’re not “actively participating” unless you stand around the altar during the Eucharistic Prayer, hold hands with everyone during the “Our Father”, shake everyone’s hand (or hug them) during the Peace, etc.

I actively participate – I “assist” – at Mass by listening, speaking, praying, singing, receiving, offering, and doing what is proper to my role (and no further) as a lay member of the congregation. Sometimes I’m the reader for the Mass. Sometimes (though not recently) I sing in the choir. Once I brought up the offerings. A couple times I was an usher. I used to be an altar boy. But I could do without all of that and still be actually participating in the Mass.

Now, I understand that some people feel a need to do something more: they need to be a reader or hold hands or something else. But that should not be to the detriment of the people who do not feel such a need. And perhaps the reason they do not think the other stuff is “enough” is because they haven’t been catechized properly.

 

[Michael96]

When people question the value of contemporary music in church I always remember that the same questions were posed early in the eighteenth century. The object of people’s complaints was Isaac Watts - who wrote When I Survey The Wonderous Cross.

Music in mass, along with music anywhere, seems to be a matter of taste to quite a large extent. Thankfully most parishes have the opportunity to offer a variety of styles, so that all can find a worship form they feel comfortable with.

 

[tcraig]

I’ve never been to a real “youth mass” (for the 12 and under crowd) though I’ve been to plenty of masses that have been massacred in a mistaken attempt to “entertain” the younger crowd. I don’t really understand the purpose of a special “youth mass”, though, because there’s a big difference between a six-year-old and a pre-adolescent 12-year-old.

I’ve also been to a few “teen masses”. At these, the teens exclusively are the readers, ushers. They also have contemporary pop/rock music with teens as the musicians and only teens in the choir. I think the music is inappropriate for the liturgy, and I don’t understand why the teens can’t volunteer for reading or ushering positions or join the choir at the regular Sunday masses and will only get involved in a special teen mass.

I think teen youth groups outside of mass are great, and that’s a perfect venue for more contemporary praise songs. However, I think that having special “teen masses” is kind of silly; it’s like having a 65+ mass, or a single adults’ mass.

Much better to get the teens involved in the regular Sunday masses, and become a part of the larger church community.