Should "youth Masses" be different?

[japhy]

I don’t understand why the teens can’t volunteer for reading or ushering positions or join the choir at the regular Sunday masses and will only get involved in a special teen mass. … Much better to get the teens involved in the regular Sunday masses, and become a part of the larger church community.

Can I vote for you in the upcoming primaries?

 

[benedictgal]

Can I vote for you in the upcoming primaries?

Tcraig has my vote, with japhy as his running mate in November!

 

[THurifer2]

Teens eventually become 30 year olds. What will they do for entertainment then? I am wondering why the liturgy needs to be adapted to fit the needs of a certain age group? Why don’t we have Masses for 80 year olds with big band music?

 

[Michael_Welter]

Teens eventually become 30 year olds. What will they do for entertainment then? I am wondering why the liturgy needs to be adapted to fit the needs of a certain age group? Why don’t we have Masses for 80 year olds with big band music?

I hope you’re not suggesting that the music at Mass is supposed to be entertaining. It certainly is not. It is meant to draw us into worship. Different people respond differently to different music. For me, contemporary praise and worship music draws me into worship, so I attend our Life Teen Mass, and I see many teens there being drawn into worship by the music.

 

[japhy]

Teens eventually become 30 year olds. What will they do for entertainment then? I am wondering why the liturgy needs to be adapted to fit the needs of a certain age group? Why don’t we have Masses for 80 year olds with big band music?

Lawrence Welk was Catholic… too bad he never wrote any Mass settings!

 

[benedictgal]

I hope you’re not suggesting that the music at Mass is supposed to be entertaining. It certainly is not. It is meant to draw us into worship. Different people respond differently to different music. For me, contemporary praise and worship music draws me into worship, so I attend our Life Teen Mass, and I see many teens there being drawn into worship by the music.

First of all, it is not the music that should be the main focus; rather, it is the One who is at the center of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Appropriate liturgical music is certainly a tool that helps draw the faithful into the Sacred Mysteries, but, there is something deeper.

While there are perhaps some good pieces of contemporary music, much of what is contained in Spirit and Song (the OCP hymnal) is drawn from the Protestant Praise repertoire and has no place in the Catholic Mass. A lof of the music, like Bread of Life, is focused more towards the individual rather than on God. A lot of this music is also celebratory of the community, with adoration of God and contemplation of the Sacred Mysteries of our Faith taking on a secondary role.

Furthermore, some contemporary composers also take excessive liberties with the parts of the Mass. Christopher Walker’s hand-clapping Gloria is one such example. The Gloria is not even recognizable as the one that is supposed to be prayed/sung at Mass. It is a complete paraphrase, and, if you look at the notes, there are sections where the composer inserts a (clap, clap). OCP was called on that one and had to move it to the hymns section.

 

[Michael_Welter]

First of all, it is not the music that should be the main focus; rather, it is the One who is at the center of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Appropriate liturgical music is certainly a tool that helps draw the faithful into the Sacred Mysteries, but, there is something deeper.

I agree completely. The Eucharist is the central focus of the Mass. The music is there to aid us in our worship of Christ, who becomes present in the Eucharist.

While there are perhaps some good pieces of contemporary music, much of what is contained in Spirit and Song (the OCP hymnal) is drawn from the Protestant Praise repertoire and has no place in the Catholic Mass. A lof of the music, like Bread of Life, is focused more towards the individual rather than on God. A lot of this music is also celebratory of the community, with adoration of God and contemplation of the Sacred Mysteries of our Faith taking on a secondary role.

Again, I agree. I’ve also noticed that there is probably more contemporary protestant music that is appropriate at Mass, then there is contemporary Catholic music that is appropriate at Mass. Songs that focus on the individual, or the people, miss the point of Mass.

Furthermore, some contemporary composers also take excessive liberties with the parts of the Mass. Christopher Walker’s hand-clapping Gloria is one such example. The Gloria is not even recognizable as the one that is supposed to be prayed/sung at Mass. It is a complete paraphrase, and, if you look at the notes, there are sections where the composer inserts a (clap, clap). OCP was called on that one and had to move it to the hymns section.

Excellent point, as well. I’m contantly reminding our music leaders that they cannot use musical Mass parts that change the words of the prayers of the Mass.

 

[anamchara]

There is a widespread assumption in Catholic circles that Masses for young people (“youth Masses”) must be different from “ordinary” Masses. The music must be different (rock-based), the style must be different (exuberant and informal), etc.

So, is this assumption justified? Do young people benefit from such liturgies? Do they even want such liturgies? Do they eventually “mainstream” and come to appreciate and desire the very different music and style of e.g. a Papal Mass?

I’d especially like to hear from younger people on this question.

My daughter nearly 13yrs prefers the youth Mass. She likes the music. Her dad sings with them and she is hoping to join in with her sax when she gets a bit better. They already use two trumpets. I know people will throw hissy fits on that instrument in a Mass. And I think it’s good for her to see the older high school kids as lectors. The whole youth group attends and they are excellent Catholic role models for the younger teens and pre-teens. It’s all done with taste and reverence. And it is NOT an entertainment or performance. The music/singers and instruments are way off to the side. You can’t even see them unless are you setting over by them.

Yes, I think we need something for the youth if this is what they want. If they don’t then they don’t have to attend this Mass.

 

[AlexV]

Yeah, and if youth want ice cream instead of vegetables, give it to them.

If they want recess instead of science class, give it to them.

It’s all about them, after all.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Yeah, and if youth want ice cream instead of vegetables, give it to them.

If they want recess instead of science class, give it to them.

It’s all about them, after all.

I think you missed the point of that post. As long as Mass is done correctly, there is latitude in the musical style that is allowed. People will get more out of Mass if they can select one with music that leads them into worship.

 

[THurifer2]

I hope you’re not suggesting that the music at Mass is supposed to be entertaining. It certainly is not. It is meant to draw us into worship. Different people respond differently to different music. For me, contemporary praise and worship music draws me into worship, so I attend our Life Teen Mass, and I see many teens there being drawn into worship by the music.

You completely and totally missed my point…totally…

You statement makes it sound like contemporary music can only draw people into worship.

I have news for you! Big band music was at one time contemporary.

Can I ask you why your would think it is OK to cater to a certain age group? If rock/pop/ contemporary music is acceptable why wouldn’t big band music be?

THe point is SOME DAY these teens are going to be 80 years old and they wont have “comtemporary” music to worship with…The ones that haven’t bolted that is.

 

[anamchara]

Yeah, and if youth want ice cream instead of vegetables, give it to them.

If they want recess instead of science class, give it to them.

It’s all about them, after all.

Speaking in extremes Alex, doesn’t get you anywhere.

 

[anamchara]

I think you missed the point of that post. As long as Mass is done correctly, there is latitude in the musical style that is allowed. People will get more out of Mass if they can select one with music that leads them into worship.

Well said Michael.

 

[benedictgal]

Speaking in extremes Alex, doesn’t get you anywhere.

Alex V does have a point, however. Perhaps it’s because that, collectively, we have forgotten what the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is all about.

I grew up in the mid seventies-early eighties when all of this phenonemna was beginning about “youth” having their own thing. Luckily for me, my parents didn’t buy into any of it. We went to Mass as a family and that was it.

It wasn’t until I went moved to Austin to go to UT that I was “exposed” to this “Youth Mass” movement. One Mass at the University Catholic Center pretty much turned me off of the whole thing. The hand-clapping and questionable hymn selection gave me the impression that I wasn’t in a Catholic Church. The folks were also standing during the Consecration (even though they all looked able-bodied enough to kneel on the floor–no kneelers).

I suppose, looking back, that this was the harbinger of things to come. I didn’t like it when I experienced it back then, and, now, if I had children, I certainly would not allow them to attend something like it.

The bottom line is that there is a time and a place for everything. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass should not be reduced to a mere “feel-good experience” where substance, solemnity and a true sense of the divine are traded in for hand-clapping, Protestant praise music that bears little to no semblance of Catholic theology.

Alex V correctly observes that if we give our kids a physical diet of sweets without the substance, the end result is decay. There is joy in the liturgy. But, it is a joy that goes deeper and beyond what the senses can perceive. Our ancestors in the Faith would never have stood for the kind of stuff happening in our Masses today. Why? They recognized that they were in the presence of something greater than themselves. They knew that something very extraordinary was unfolding before them. That is what our Holy Father is trying to restore. There were those who didn’t like what Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger had to say back when he was championing the issue in his books. Now that he is Pope, I’m wondering if these same nay-sayers have changed their minds, or, if they are still maintaining their opinion that it’s all about culture.

 

[AlexV]

The point, too, is that things like Gregorian Chant and Latin aren’t just permitted or tolerated. They are AUTHENTICALLY the Roman Rite at its core and center. We have an obligation as Catholics to expose new generations to their heritage. Not to offer something else (usually to the exclusion of said tradition) and then smirk and say they’d demand the tradition we didn’t bother to offer them if they really wanted it.

 

[anamchara]

Actually, not end of story.

I didn’t want to get into yet another one of these, becasue no doubt people will jump on me and my experiences.

The vatican has promoted and encouraged the “youth Mass” ministry model. They have approved LT not only as a ministry model, and mass, but also as an official “lay association of the Christian faithful” . Cardinal Arinze himself is in close contact with Lifeteen, and has himself given his OK.

Thank you. But unfortunately, that won’t be good enough for some.

 

[Michael_Welter]

You statement makes it sound like contemporary music can only draw people into worship.

That’s not at all what I said. Britney Spears sells contemporary music, but I don’t think anyone will be drawn into worship by it. My point is that some people are drawn into worship by contemporary praise and worship music. Others by Gregorian Chant, and still others by traditional choir music. I am drawn into worship by contemporary praise and worship music. There are some people who want me to feel inferior because of that.

Can I ask you why your would think it is OK to cater to a certain age group?

Maybe you didn’t notice that Jesus catered to the youth. Scripture shows Him treating children differently than He treated adults.

 

[AlexV]

Latin and chant. Pride of place. Not merely tolerated…but the norm to which the vernacular and “contemporary” music, within certain prescribed limits, are tolerated as indults.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Latin and chant. Pride of place. Not merely tolerated…but the norm to which the vernacular and “contemporary” music, within certain prescribed limits, are tolerated as indults.

What does “pride of place” mean? We have fine china that we keep in our china cabinet, on display. It has pride of place in our china cabinet, but we rarely use it. Is that how we should treat latin and chant?

 

[AlexV]

Of course not, if you bother to read papal decrees on Sacred Music. Of course yes, if you’re the average “liturgist” who doesn’t even know the language of the rite you allegedly specialize in.