Shouldn't we warn against Mary worship?

[rcwitness]

I am not offended by you thinking that I worship Mary. I will always admit that I do. It is the will of God that Mary be worshipped and the Church teaches us how this is understood and accomplished. Which is why I suggested that you learn to understand what the Church teaches before making judgements about people.

This is what I think is wrong in the eyes of Jesus, His Apostles, the Church, and Mary herself. It is not me Judging your heart, but your confession that judges yourself. You don’t have to worry about me. I know that. I won’t tell you what the Lord will say to you. I will not hold contempt for you. But I will defend my Mother from children in the faith worshiping her. Your conclusion is partly because of the lack of warnings from the Church. You are not alone. There are many who don’t even admit they worship her, but do in their heart. I am sad, because of that.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Shame on you Jeanne S! That sounds like worship to me! Nah, just kidding. I’m with you. My earthly mother passed away also. And I turn to Mary for everything. And I like what you said…I am a “Mama’s girl” Only, in my case I’m a “Mama’s boy”

Peace, Mark

Not a darn thing wrong with that!

 

[rcwitness]

Michael, you appear to distrust some others. Let us learn to distrust ourselves first. Who do you know that is actually worshipping Mary? Since God knows our hearts, the only way to know, if you suspect that someone is worshipping Mary, is to ask them. This may take the rest of your life to investigate.

I also get the impression that you may have some of this reversed. We can venerate Mary solely because God favored her first. We have Christ as our Savior only because He conceived of her in His Divine Intellect and created her to be His mother. We honor her because God honored her first by saving her from original sin so as to carry His well-beloeved Son, in Whom He is well pleased.

Since none of us received this sublime privilege, let us distrust ourselves and our hearts first.

My distrust is warranted because she is worshiped. I do love Mary, and know she can be venerated. All His work in her is based on a singularly great amount of grace in her. That is why a simple little girl can be so important to all mankind. I think she kept herself holy through her consent to Him throughout her life and that’s why she is mother to all.

 

[losh14]

John’s leaping indicates that he and is mother were cleansed of original sin through Mary. She is the Mediatrix of All Graces. The Church has taught this for some time now. Why can you not accept Church teaching?

The Church doesn’t teach that John was born free of original sin, nor that Mary cleansed him of that sin. Same for Elizabeth, John’s mother. It may be pious belief but it’s not the exclusive explanation.

I’ll let Jimmy Akin explain on this one:
jimmyakin.com/2004/12/john_the_baptis.html

 

[losh14]

Three good points are raised here (emphasis mine):

(1) I doubt if anyone believes Mary to be God…so there is no danger of too much devotion…**(2)**we feel her love and devotion to us and we return it… **(3)**asking our Holy Mother to speak to her Son and the Father on our behalf is no different than asking friends and family or the Saints to pray for us or others…

I’d only think that devotion becomes concerning if one believes:

1. That salvation is impossible without it.
2. That God will not hear our prayers without Mary’s intercession.
3. That we turn to Mary instead of Christ.

If none of these sentiments are expressed, we’re not contradicting Church teaching on how we ought to relate to the Father.

As a Catholic, I don’t think we are judged on what we believe, but what we do in our life. This is St. James whole point about Justification.

It’s less a dichotomy, more a synergy. We are judged on matters of the heart - what we believe - as well as what we do with that belief. You can do all the good deeds on earth but for selfish reasons and have no reward in Heaven. You can believe with all your heart but never be moved to assist in building the Kingdom, likewise your reward will be small. A living faith is required. This is the essence of James 2, that faith should inspire works and works should feed faith, and having one without the other means that neither is sincere.

 

[rcwitness]

The Church does give warning not to go too far but she doesn’t really lay out - by examples - what that would entail.
I think that this is part of the reason that (for instance) I might look at your devotionals and say - “Oooo that’s too much for me - I’m not comfortable with that. It sounds too much like worship”, and you might look at mine and say - “Is that all you offer? That doesn’t seem like enough. That seems like you are ignoring our Heavenly Mother”…

Peace
James

I agree. Im not interested in judging someones personal devotion. But I, in my sharing the faith, think I should make distinctions as to when devotion to mary becomes worship. I don’t think all devotion to Mary “automatically” is honoring Christ.

If someone wishes to encourage me to ask for her prayers and intercession, I will take their advice well and thankfully.

I think, in Mass we ask for her prayers and venerate her motherhood to all of us. This is recognizing her closeness to the Lord and within the mystical body of the Church. But there is distinction between her role and the Churches role in motherhood, no?

Thanks James,
I like your spirit. (it believes all things for the sake of Jesusl and His Church)
Michael

 

[Mark121359]

Well said

And asking people is one reason why I think that discussions like this one are so important. Many people benefit from them. On the one hand more people are exposed to some of the different Marion Devotions. Some difficult prayers can be explained. The nuances of veneration v worship can be explored and - to me - most importantly, people can discover that there are different levels and types of devotions.

The Church is just so great in the wondrous variety of devotional paths available.

Peace
James

Very well stated! Saint Louis-Marie Grignion de Montfort would be considered extreme to many. But the Church chose to make him a Saint. And you can be sure that Church theologians went through his writings such as “True Devotion To Mary” with a fine-toothed comb searching for the slightest error or anything that deviated from Church teachings. But as it is many, including Blessed JPll, Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, St. Maximilian Kolbe to name a few made this consecration to Mary. And all of the Franciscan Priests of EWTN as well as Mother Angelica and her Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration Sisters did as well.

 

[elliots]

It is a said “Fact” in the bible that Jesus said (roughly) that if you are asking for somthing then ask my mother first"
i suggest that you say a novena and after 3 days with your promissed penance you should look at the question inside your brain and answere it with your soul.

afterall Mary is the mother of christ and catholics are the main stem that combines all the religions of the world and it is also the religion that worships our lady Mary.

God bless my friend and have enjoyed talking to you. ive just joined today and your question took my eye and i thought i would take you out of doubt and into joy.

 

[losh14]

Welcome elliots. I hope you find much to grow in here.

It is a said “Fact” in the bible that Jesus said (roughly) that if you are asking for somthing then ask my mother first"

I’m not familiar with that passage. If you can cite it, I’d appreciate it. Possibly are you conflating it with something the Muslims are fond of citing in their attempts to convert Catholics?

A man came to the prophet and enquired: “Whom should I look after?” The prophet said: “Your mother”. The man said: “Then whom?” The Prophet said: “Your mother”. Then the man enquired: “Then whom?”. Muhammad said: “`Your mother”. The man said “Then whom?” The Prophet said: “Then your father”

afterall Mary is the mother of christ and catholics are the main stem that combines all the religions of the world and it is also the religion that worships our lady Mary.

The term “worship” makes approved devotions more difficult to accept because it sounds like we put veneration of Mary on the same level as adoration of the Lord, which of course is incorrect. To adore Mary with the adoration that is due the Lord alone is blasphemy, and to merely venerate the Lord is as much as saying “Jesus was a nice guy” while entirely missing the point of the Incarnation. It’s really better to say that Catholics are allowed to venerate Mary but give worship only to the Lord.

 

[rcwitness]

The term “worship” makes approved devotions more difficult to accept because it sounds like we put veneration of Mary on the same level as adoration of the Lord, which of course is incorrect. To adore Mary with the adoration that is due the Lord alone is blasphemy, and to merely venerate the Lord is as much as saying “Jesus was a nice guy” while entirely missing the point of the Incarnation. It’s really better to say that Catholics are allowed to venerate Mary but give worship only to the Lord.

I have to admit I am disappointed in the general responses of this thread. I tried to relate as much as I could the way I feel and agree with veneration and official teaching of the Catholic faith, but this is one of the only aknowledgments that the worship is wrong. I have been blasted with the defence of venerating her and having a mother child relationship with Mary which with I believe is deep rooted faith in the Family of the Church. But I tried to raise attention to a lack of warnings that it is sinfully wrong to worship Mary or anyone else besides the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Two posts actually admit and defend worshiping her. That is proof my question is warranted.

Michael

 

[Stephanie_Pauls]

This thread would better fit in a protestant forum.

 

[rcwitness]

This thread would better fit in a protestant forum.

Eccept for the fact that I am Catholic

 

[brb3]

Yes, we should warn Catholics not to worship Mary.
Do any here at CAF worship Mary ?

Scripture teaches we should hold her in high regard, and call her Blessed. And, along with all the saints, she AND THEY TOO, are our brothers/ sisters In GOD’s Holy Family.
All our forebears on high are cheering for us ( per Paul ) and we do well to salute them and ask them to help us in any way they can, to persevere in our faith and remain InChristos…at all times.

But, because we have direct access to Christ, ( IF WE INDEED RESIDE ‘IN CHRIST’ via the Promised Paraclete ) …we don’t need Mary (or any Saint), to pray to Christ for us. We can talk directly to our Creator…as scripture and our Church teaches us !!!

So, if some find they are generally seeking/invoking Mary ( or any Saint) to communicate to God for us … thats of concern, and we need discuss this matter with our Priests.

Am I wrong ?

 

[rcwitness]

I am not offended by you thinking that I worship Mary. I will always admit that I do. It is the will of God that Mary be worshipped and the Church teaches us how this is understood and accomplished. Which is why I suggested that you learn to understand what the Church teaches before making judgements about people, such as in the bolded section.

 

[rcwitness]

It is a said “Fact” in the bible that Jesus said (roughly) that if you are asking for somthing then ask my mother first"
i suggest that you say a novena and after 3 days with your promissed penance you should look at the question inside your brain and answere it with your soul.

afterall Mary is the mother of christ and catholics are the main stem that combines all the religions of the world and it is also the religion that worships our lady Mary.

God bless my friend and have enjoyed talking to you. ive just joined today and your question took my eye and i thought i would take you out of doubt and into joy.

 

[rcwitness]

Yes, we should warn Catholics not to worship Mary.
Do any here at CAF worship Mary ?

Am I wrong ?

Read Posts 54 and 55

 

[fred_conty]

Someone said,
“I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable with anyone being mentioned as ‘mediator’ besides Jesus. THAT is something I have a very hard time with …”

---

That’s why I wonder why we discuss this idea of Mary and her titles.
Pope Benedict XVI said that the world is not ready for certain titles of Mary because it is not sustincly a bible term, tho it has a basis in the Bible.

Yet we have another Pope who did address this specific title of Mary’s saying that it didn’t take anything away for that of Christ’s title of mediator.

Even tho it has been explained, it is still for some incomprehendsible and/or incompatible with that of Christ’s. But the compatible explaination is out there. And people are very intelligent. Then why is it so hard to grasp? I can think of no other reason except that the mind is not open in a balanced way to viewing this teaching. Once the word mediator is mentioned that is the end of the story and there is nothing more to discuss. Because to do that would mean for them the end of mediatorship of Christ, or a shared mediatorship which is unthinkable and heresy.

So there is not chance at all for open forum of discussion on this topic. But if anyone wants to understand the real meaning of it all, it is out there, and with prayer and study it can be understood, if that is what is desired. But it isn’t mandatory because it is not yet a declared article of the faith.

Peace to all.

Just some thoughts.

 

[brb3]

Read Posts 54 and 55

I just did, and I’m shocked !

Folks who think as they, need some serious spiritual counseling with their Priests, and to get reacquainted with the Paraclete, who helps us in our prayers to the Father & Son.

 

[rcwitness]

I just did, and I’m shocked !

Folks who think as they, need some serious spiritual counseling with their Priests, and to get reacquainted with the Paraclete, who helps us in our prayers to the Father & Son.

Thanks bro. I was getting discouraged.
This should be something Catholics are more grounded about. We have the Fullness of teaching and we are being a poor example. I take responsibility as though I am an accomplice, for the sake of ridding ourselves of this error.

God Bless you and pray for this!
Michael

 

[JM3]

This thread would better fit in a protestant forum.

As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make 'em drink.