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halleone
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Thank you, Basilios, well said!
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TimothyH
Guest
It’s not a social meet-and-greet. These are people we are supposed to pray for and supposed to give our lives for if called upon to do so. To turn, greet, wish them the peace of Christ, pray for their salvation while Christ is present on the altar, is a good work, an generous act for the benefit of their salvation.
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april32010
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Filii_Dei
Guest
I may be a foreigner here, but I’ve always found these threads to be quite amusing. I’m not sure if people are complaining about the Sign of Peace itself or the fact that people shake hands during the Sign of the Peace. Maybe it’s where I come from, but these two are completely separate issues, so I find it interesting when the two are conflated.
For some information, we don’t shake hands here. We perform a slow and solemn bow to one another with our hands pressed together in a position of prayer. I hardly find it distracting, and I have in fact found it to fit in perfectly well with the reverent atmosphere of mass. People who attempt the shaking of hands are perceived as being too casual or personal during a solemn and prayerful occasion like the mass, and such personal gestures are only reserved amongst friends or family. Hardly an issue for the rest of us! In fact, if you complained about ‘germy hands’ during the Sign of Peace in our diocese, we would think you mad. We don’t shake hands, so why complain about it?
This is why I have many questions: Where did the rubrics prescribe the shaking of hands? Why do people insist on shaking hands as the only possible expression of the Sign of Peace? Is it not possible to politely refuse the shaking of hands? Why do people practice such an casual manner of the Sign of Peace? And why do people think that the Sign of Peace must be casual? Lastly, why attack the Sign of Peace for being casual when the problem is really just that people are performing it casually? It’s like criticising the OF for liturgical abuse when the problem is the abuse, not the liturgy.
That is not to say the sign of peace is without its critics. Some have argued that the Sign of Peace is not traditional and would be better served either eliminated or moved to a different part of the Mass where it would flow better, to which I am inclined to share some perspective, while recognising that the Church has the authority to dictate the rubrics of the Mass. However, I feel that threads like these are less a discussion on the propriety of liturgical actions and more about our personal reluctance to shake hands. The answer seems glaringly obvious to me: just don’t!
For some information, we don’t shake hands here. We perform a slow and solemn bow to one another with our hands pressed together in a position of prayer. I hardly find it distracting, and I have in fact found it to fit in perfectly well with the reverent atmosphere of mass. People who attempt the shaking of hands are perceived as being too casual or personal during a solemn and prayerful occasion like the mass, and such personal gestures are only reserved amongst friends or family. Hardly an issue for the rest of us! In fact, if you complained about ‘germy hands’ during the Sign of Peace in our diocese, we would think you mad. We don’t shake hands, so why complain about it?
This is why I have many questions: Where did the rubrics prescribe the shaking of hands? Why do people insist on shaking hands as the only possible expression of the Sign of Peace? Is it not possible to politely refuse the shaking of hands? Why do people practice such an casual manner of the Sign of Peace? And why do people think that the Sign of Peace must be casual? Lastly, why attack the Sign of Peace for being casual when the problem is really just that people are performing it casually? It’s like criticising the OF for liturgical abuse when the problem is the abuse, not the liturgy.
That is not to say the sign of peace is without its critics. Some have argued that the Sign of Peace is not traditional and would be better served either eliminated or moved to a different part of the Mass where it would flow better, to which I am inclined to share some perspective, while recognising that the Church has the authority to dictate the rubrics of the Mass. However, I feel that threads like these are less a discussion on the propriety of liturgical actions and more about our personal reluctance to shake hands. The answer seems glaringly obvious to me: just don’t!
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sw85
Guest
As for the actual sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by the Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. However, it is appropriate that each person, in a sober manner, offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest.
Also:
The Rite of Peace follows. The celebrant prays that the peace of Christ will fill our hearts, our families, our Church, our communities, and our world. As a sign of hope, the people extend to those around them a sign of peace, typically by shaking hands.
–United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, The Structure and Meaning of the Mass
Singapore may have prescribed things differently, of course.
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clem456
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yep
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godisgood77
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It really is unfortunate that this topic is so polarizing. The SOP is a little “t” tradition. If you are uncomfortable shaking hands don’t do it. God gave you, me and everyone free will and the right to choose what we do. The Church should never dictate that you must do something… lest it become a legalistic, rules based organization focused more on telling it’s faithful what they cannot rather than focusing on living out a life centered on Christ and his example.
Its actually very simple… you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
And a word on charity for some of the posters in this thread…(as I tell my young children)…If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. I sometimes daydream about how great our world would be if we were all struck dumb for 6 months and there was no talking… We would truly see who the Christians are…
Its actually very simple… you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
And a word on charity for some of the posters in this thread…(as I tell my young children)…If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. I sometimes daydream about how great our world would be if we were all struck dumb for 6 months and there was no talking… We would truly see who the Christians are…
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KendraDZ1902
Guest
Growing up in the USA, I don’t see shaking hands as being casual. That is how we greet people here. If some stranger tried to hug me, I would go all “stranger danger” on them. lol. People shake hands at a job interview, business meeting, etc. If I were to meet the President of the United States, I would shake his hand. That’s just what we do here.
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curlycool89
Guest
Permission from their confessor to receive the Eucharist daily?
I know I’ve heard this use to be a “thing” (like a few hundred years ago), but this view had become antiquated even before Vatican II and the Ordinary Form. Here’s EWTN (adapting from the Baltimore Catechism):
I’m at a seminary, and it seems that most guys receive daily or most days (I don’t pay too much attention, but most guys go into the line for communion, blessings are rare as guys who aren’t receiving generally don’t approach). We have not heard anything from the Rector telling us about a need for permission, and my spiritual director has never mentioned anything about it (it’s a Sulpician-run seminary, so they’re at Mass almost every morning with us).
Exactly. If it is turning into a social then that’s not right, but most places it doesn’t.
We all shake hands at our Seminary Mass, usually the guys in your pew and in the adjacent pews. Again I haven’t counted, but it probably only takes around 10-15 seconds and then the Lamb of God is being sung. If there was a problem, we’d hear about it (Seminary is a place for learning, so we have been corrected a few times by the Rector on liturgical manners, so we would have heard if something was wrong).
But anyways:
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jim1130
Guest
I enjoy the sign of peace; however, it is way out of control anymore. It really rankles me that people are spilling over pew backs and fronts to shake any and everyone’s hand. The shaking of hands is still going on when we begin “the Lamb of God.” I have no problem if we shed it altogether, but since we do practice it I limit the number of hands I shake.My parish will share the sign of peace once a year at Christmas. The rest of the year, the priest simply does not invite us to do it. These are all OF masses. I don’t know for sure, but I really doubt that you must share the sign of peace in an outward display if you don’t want to. Although, you could just look at it as a form of suffering, and offer it up! Ha ha…
It is like hand holding during the Our Father. I don’t do it.
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Usige
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Whoa. Let’s hold on there. There are huge differences between rejecting doctrine like Protestants or heterodox Catholics and disliking liturgical practices. Disliking liturgical actions is not even in the same league. At worst it would be a sin of pride or charity. This is no different then people who might avoid an OF mass that makes heavy use of Latin.
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jim1130
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I will not hold hands during the recitation of The Our Father. does that make me a radical? I think the shaking of hands has gotten way out of control. It is absolutely ludicrous. We are talking moderation here.
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sw85
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The GIRM makes clear that the sign of peace should be offered only to those nearby. My own policy is to keep my feet planted firmly on the ground; if anyone is out of arm’s reach, they get a polite smile, nod of the head, and/or hand wave.
If people are diving over pews or walking through glass to shake your hand, they’re doing the sign of peace wrong.
If people are diving over pews or walking through glass to shake your hand, they’re doing the sign of peace wrong.
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TimothyH
Guest
You know, I visit my girlfriend’s Evangelical Church from time to time, and the pastor asks those present to greet each other before their worship starts. I always turn to those around me and say, “May the peace of Christ be with you” and shake their hands. Most people are like, “Wow. Thanks! And you too!” or something like that.
One guy looked at me funny. I think I tipped my hand and he figured I was Catholic, but I really don’t care.
If you can’t shake hands with someone next to you whom God himself became man and died for, and for whom God might call you to die, then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be a Christian. Saint Maximilian Kolbe comes to mind. He gave his life so that another human being whom he didn’t know could live and be with his family. Whould he have not shook the man’s hand at Mass? We are going to love each other in Heaven more than we have ever loved anyone or anything on this earth. Should we not start getting used to that now?
People talk about picking up a half-chewed Eucharist and consuming it because the Eucharist is Jesus and yet they can’t shake hands with someone who is a stone in God’s temple, someone who has the Holy Spirit - God himself - dwelling within him? I don’t understand…
“Body of Christ” is not just a trite phrase. It is an ontologicial reality. If we are part of Christ’s body then we share the same blood, we rise and fall together, and our fate is tied together in a supernatural way. Why would anyone not shake hands, or bow, or say hello, or want to just stand there and ignore everyone around them?
I thought “Jesus and me” was part of other religions, not Catholic Christianity. It seems that some here must believe in “Jesus and me” Christianity and want to stand in a little “Jesus and me” spiritual bubble at Mass.
I’m sorry. Call me a liberal, OF, modernist, tradition-hater, Protestant sympathizer heretic. I really don’t care. But if you can’t shake hands with someone right next to you at Mass then you have to go back to RCIA again and start all over, or need to volunteer at a hospice or something so that you can learn what it means to be a Christian, what it means to live as Christ actually taught.
-Tim-
One guy looked at me funny. I think I tipped my hand and he figured I was Catholic, but I really don’t care.
If you can’t shake hands with someone next to you whom God himself became man and died for, and for whom God might call you to die, then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be a Christian. Saint Maximilian Kolbe comes to mind. He gave his life so that another human being whom he didn’t know could live and be with his family. Whould he have not shook the man’s hand at Mass? We are going to love each other in Heaven more than we have ever loved anyone or anything on this earth. Should we not start getting used to that now?
People talk about picking up a half-chewed Eucharist and consuming it because the Eucharist is Jesus and yet they can’t shake hands with someone who is a stone in God’s temple, someone who has the Holy Spirit - God himself - dwelling within him? I don’t understand…
“Body of Christ” is not just a trite phrase. It is an ontologicial reality. If we are part of Christ’s body then we share the same blood, we rise and fall together, and our fate is tied together in a supernatural way. Why would anyone not shake hands, or bow, or say hello, or want to just stand there and ignore everyone around them?
I thought “Jesus and me” was part of other religions, not Catholic Christianity. It seems that some here must believe in “Jesus and me” Christianity and want to stand in a little “Jesus and me” spiritual bubble at Mass.
I’m sorry. Call me a liberal, OF, modernist, tradition-hater, Protestant sympathizer heretic. I really don’t care. But if you can’t shake hands with someone right next to you at Mass then you have to go back to RCIA again and start all over, or need to volunteer at a hospice or something so that you can learn what it means to be a Christian, what it means to live as Christ actually taught.
-Tim-
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Basilios
Guest
Protestants have to shake hands because that’s as deep as their communion gets.
At Mass, when we receive Jesus Christ, that’s our Communion. With Him and with eachother. There’s no need for the handshaking. A kiss of peace, at a different time, according to good traditional liturgical custom, yes, why not. But there’s a mistake in using the handshaking as a means of expressing corporate unity when in fact the higher expression is right there what you are there for - Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.
I am not at Mass for anybody but Jesus. That’s not “Jesus and me” thinking; that’s just Catholicism.
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TimothyH
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You don’t do the sign of peace. You pray it.
It is an empty action, void of meaning, unless in the back of your mind you are praying to Jesus, present on the altar, to really and truly grant those around you his peace, the same peace he breathed on the disciples in the upper room when he appeared to them after having risen from the dead.
And guess what… every consecration is a little Easter, a ressurection of Jesus who becomes present in the physical world on the altar. As he appeared to the disciples in the upper room, he does for us, appearing on the altar so that we can be at peace. And just like he breathed on the disciples in that upper room when he appeared to them, he breathes the breath of life into us, and we should be doing the same for everyone around us, praying for them, wishing them peace, and showing a visible sign of our prayer by acknowledging their presence, shaking their hand, etc.
The sign of peace is not just an action. It is a prayer. At least that’s the way I see it. It is not something you do but something you pray.
-Tim-
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jim1130
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tim - I shake hands only with those in my immediate area and cease immediately when the Lamb of God begins, if not well before that.
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Usige
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Oh, I agree. There have been times at daily mass that father has to ask everyone to return to their seats so that he could continue. There is one gentlemen in particular that reminds me of a politician “pressing the flesh” while trying to shake every hand in the nave even if they are 80+ feet away. I just just acklowedge those in my immediate vicinity, close my eyes and concentrate on Christ.
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TimothyH
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Read my post above, number 56.
Your communion is not with Jesus alone. You don’t incorporate Jesus into your body. He incorporates you and everyone else present, into his body.
If you are there only for Jesus then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Christian communion. Being at Mass just for yourself and Jesus is not Catholic teaching.
-Tim-
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jim1130
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I think you are on to something. Shake hands in the imemdiate area then turn attention striaght ahead, close eyes, and bow head.
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