SIGN PETITION to end eucharistic desecrations on youtube!

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Lost_Wanderer said:
Experience has long taught me that the more you ignore (and had others ignore) someone, chances are you’re only going to make them crave your attention more. What are you going to do when they shall resort to something so grievous that even you couldn’t turn a blind eye anymore?

For your information this wasn’t the first time someone did this. A professor from Minnesota (I think his names was Myers or something) once stated on his blog about performing a similar stunt. Suppose this atheist was inspired by him (who too is another militant atheist)?

Are we going to wait for the anti-Catholic version of the Blasphemy Challenge? (Btw, you’d be surprised how many people answered to that)

Hitler once said that if you tell a lie many times enough, people will regard it as true. To me, that speaks of the power of propaganda. Sure people like fsmdude are not exactly well-known in the YouTube community, but I bet that even without the attention of Catholics there, he’ll eventually inspire someone else and then another, thus begins the destructive and unholy chain of anti-theism.

And when YouTube is filled with desecration videos just like it was filled with videos supporting the Blasphemy Challenge, can you still think that’s something easy to ignore?
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I really don’t think it has a chance of getting to that point.
There are plenty of little statements like this (of different matters) on youtube that have been going on for years, and majority of them are ignored.

I mean just look at the amount of views and subscribers this guy has. The most views he’s had are on his first video, and it was still a small number. Since than his views have been declining, that shows that everyone is losing interest.

He hasn’t even made an impact on anyone in the youtube community. I’ve been part of that site and it’s community for years, and I’ve never even heard of his videos until now. That’s because he’s relatively unknown, the only way you can find his videos are if you are extensively searching for videos of that nature.

The only way I can see this guy influencing anybody to continue this, is if he is censored. If he is censored, he will become more controversial, and he will become a bigger attraction, and than he will gain an impact.

This solution of silencing this user will only counter-productive to the hopeful reduction of anti-Catholicism.

This person just wants attention, he wants you all to get angry and react like this over his videos. He put out the bait, and now you’re taking it and doing exactly what he wants.
 
Hobble said:
I really don’t think it has a chance of getting to that point.
There are plenty of little statements like this (of different matters) on youtube that have been going on for years, and majority of them are ignored.

I mean just look at the amount of views and subscribers this guy has. The most views he’s had are on his first video, and it was still a small number. Since than his views have been declining, that shows that everyone is losing interest.

He hasn’t even made an impact on anyone in the youtube community. I’ve been part of that site and it’s community for years, and I’ve never even heard of his videos until now. That’s because he’s relatively unknown, the only way you can find his videos are if you are extensively searching for videos of that nature.

The only way I can see this guy influencing anybody to continue this, is if he is censored. If he is censored, he will become more controversial, and he will become a bigger attraction, and than he will gain an impact.

This solution of silencing this user will only counter-productive to the hopeful reduction of anti-Catholicism.

This person just wants attention, he wants you all to get angry and react like this over his videos. He put out the bait, and now you’re taking it and doing exactly what he wants.
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But what about he Blasphemy Challenge? I doubt that was the result of Christians paying attention to it given that it was an instant mass movement upon its release. Yet it’s also the same in nature as fsmdude’s videos: Anti-religious, anti-theistic, and downright stupid and arrogant. How sure are you that this won’t grow into something all of us will regret of not stopping earlier?
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
But what about he Blasphemy Challenge? I doubt that was the result of Christians paying attention to it given that it was an instant mass movement upon its release. Yet it’s also the same in nature as fsmdude’s videos: Anti-religious, anti-theistic, and downright stupid and arrogant. How sure are you that this won’t grow into something all of us will regret of not stopping earlier?
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What harm did the Blasphemy Challenge do?
All it was, was a bunch of Atheists, stating that they were Atheists.

And what is you big plan to stop people from expressing their beliefs? How would you shut people up?

Unfortunately for you guys, the world is full of different beliefs. So if you can’t just censor certain beliefs. People have a right to express that they don’t believe in God, it’s their decision, not yours.

If you are able to express your love of God, and your religious beliefs, than why shouldn’t anyone else be able to do so about their beliefs?
 
Hobble said:
What harm did the Blasphemy Challenge do?
All it was, was a bunch of Atheists, stating that they were Atheists.

And what is you big plan to stop people from expressing their beliefs? How would you shut people up?

Unfortunately for you guys, the world is full of different beliefs. So if you can’t just censor certain beliefs. People have a right to express that they don’t believe in God, it’s their decision, not yours.

If you are able to express your love of God, and your religious beliefs, than why shouldn’t anyone else be able to do so about their beliefs?
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Hello!? Did you see how many atheists it brought to YouTube!? Go look for a vid called YouTube Atheist History (or something like that). Before, nobody even thought about Atheism but after the Blasphemy Challenge, there was a “Golden Age of Atheism”. Now YouTube’s practically swarming with their kind. Not even Christian response challenges were able to make any difference. Because of that, every time someone posts a vid about their pro-religious beliefs, that vid will occasionally draw your typical, over-opinionated atheist and he/she will start flaming. You try doing the same with their vids though and you’ll soon find yourself seriously outnumbered.

Yes people do have the right to express their beliefs. But what good is that when you hardly get support for expressing your belief yet your enemy gets tons of fans for expressing his/her own?

Does that sound like fair play to you? More like mob rule.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
Hello!? Did you see how many atheists it brought to YouTube!? Go look for a vid called YouTube Atheist History (or something like that). Before, nobody even thought about Atheism but after the Blasphemy Challenge, there was a “Golden Age of Atheism”. Now YouTube’s practically swarming with their kind. Not even Christian response challenges were able to make any difference. Because of that, every time someone posts a vid about their pro-religious beliefs, that vid will occasionally draw your typical, over-opinionated atheist and he/she will start flaming. You try doing the same with their vids though and you’ll soon find yourself seriously outnumbered.

Yes people do have the right to express their beliefs. But what good is that when you hardly get support for expressing your belief yet your enemy gets tons of fans for expressing his/her own?

Does that sound like fair play to you? More like mob rule.
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I’m sorry, but this just sounds like needless whining.
In life their will always be people with differing opinions to you, their will be a lot of them. Tough? Deal with it, that’s life.

I mean really, what do you think anyone can do about it? Do you really think it’s fair to ban all the atheists, or prevent them from speaking their opinions just because there’s some Catholics/Christians who are feeling insecure?

Let’s flip the coin for a second and look at this board itself. When an Atheist/Christian/Protestant/Jew/Muslim talks about their beliefs on here, they’re bombarded with tons of people putting down their beliefs. It’s the same situation as on Youtube, just a different majority belief.

We can’t just strip one group of people of their rights, just because another group of people are whining. Everyone has a voice, they’re entitled to use it.

If you’re unable to deal with people challenging your beliefs, than it really just makes it seem like you’re insecure about your beliefs.
 
Hobble said:
I’m sorry, but this just sounds like needless whining.
In life their will always be people with differing opinions to you, their will be a lot of them. Tough? Deal with it, that’s life.

I mean really, what do you think anyone can do about it? Do you really think it’s fair to ban all the atheists, or prevent them from speaking their opinions just because there’s some Catholics/Christians who are feeling insecure?

Let’s flip the coin for a second and look at this board itself. When an Atheist/Christian/Protestant/Jew/Muslim talks about their beliefs on here, they’re bombarded with tons of people putting down their beliefs. It’s the same situation as on Youtube, just a different majority belief.

We can’t just strip one group of people of their rights, just because another group of people are whining. Everyone has a voice, they’re entitled to use it.

If you’re unable to deal with people challenging your beliefs, than it really just makes it seem like you’re insecure about your beliefs.
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The problem with that is that YouTube was originally NOT an atheist site and it is STILL not. It is a site that’s to be used by everyone but because there’s just a really huge number of atheists there, they’ve become the unofficial Lords of Opinion. It’s the same with how the media is now being overrun by liberals even though conservatives technically hold the same rights to using it.

It’s one thing for an atheist to come here on CAF and can completely tell, just by looking, that this was a site for Catholics and another
for a Catholic to go unawares on YouTube and suddenly get shocked at the amount of atheists he/she will attract with her religious vids. For your analogy to work, you have to prove to me that YouTube itself is officially pro-atheist in any of its statements.

And finally, I just like to say that you’re missing my original point. I’m asking you again, what’re you gonna do when (regardless if we pay attention to this guy or not) someone starts promoting the Desecration Challenge?
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
The problem with that is that YouTube was originally NOT an atheist site and it is STILL not. It is a site that’s to be used by everyone but because there’s just a really huge number of atheists there, they’ve become the unofficial Lords of Opinion. It’s the same with how the media is now being overrun by liberals even though conservatives technically hold the same rights to using it.
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But we can’t control the amount of Atheists who join Youtube. Isn’t it their right to join if they want to? Youtube is a site that’s open to anyone, it wouldn’t make sense to start kicking out Atheists just to even the odds for the Christians. There is no reasonable way to control the amount of Atheists that are users on there.

I’m unsure about the Liberal Media notion too. Here the only major news stations I get are CBC and CNN.

CBC tends to be unbiased. CNN usually tries to be unbiased, but more than not leans towards a conservative bias.

Also the BBC tends to be pretty reliable and unbiased.

I’ve seen stuff from is Fox News, which is so conservatively biased that I can’t even consider it a news station.

Can you give me some examples of the Liberal Bias in media?
It’s one thing for an atheist to come here on CAF and can completely tell, just by looking, that this was a site for Catholics and another
for a Catholic to go unawares on YouTube and suddenly get shocked at the amount of atheists he/she will attract with her religious vids. For your analogy to work, you have to prove to me that YouTube itself is officially pro-atheist in any of its statements.
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Okay than, I’ll toss out that analogy.

Youtube is open to anyone though. So there is no way to control which opinion is favored, other than the amount of people who share opinions. If there are more atheists than religious on Youtube, there is no way to control it without violating peoples rights. It’s more of a sign of the times than anything.

For a religion to be strong, it shouldn’t have to strive to censor opposing beliefs, that only shows that it is becoming weak to be honest.
And finally, I just like to say that you’re missing my original point. I’m asking you again, what’re you gonna do when (regardless if we pay attention to this guy or not) someone starts promoting the Desecration Challenge?
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Well, it’s more of a question of "If’ other than “when”. But if it did happen, I’d just choose not to participate.

Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, and to treat others the way you would like to be treated. I’m sure that you would never want to have your beliefs censored, or your opinions silenced, so why would you want to do that to someone else?
 
Hobble said:
But we can’t control the amount of Atheists who join Youtube. Isn’t it their right to join if they want to? Youtube is a site that’s open to anyone, it wouldn’t make sense to start kicking out Atheists just to even the odds for the Christians. There is no reasonable way to control the amount of Atheists that are users on there.
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Hobble said:
Okay than, I’ll toss out that analogy.

Youtube is open to anyone though. So there is no way to control which opinion is favored, other than the amount of people who share opinions. If there are more atheists than religious on Youtube, there is no way to control it without violating peoples rights. It’s more of a sign of the times than anything.

For a religion to be strong, it shouldn’t have to strive to censor opposing beliefs, that only shows that it is becoming weak to be honest.
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True and I never said anything on this thread that explicitly stated as such. Still, you cannot deny that the high atheist population on YouTube does in fact render the whole site unfriendly to religious users regardless if whether or not the user plans on making religious vids. You should also know very well that the high atheist population will make it difficult to promote any and all religious (or conservative) values. The danger of that is because YouTube is a popular video site. If atheism gains the popular opinion on the topic of religion (and I think it already has), I don’t think I’d wanna see how that will extend from the internet to the whole world. I’m not asking for anyone to be banned, but a balance of opinion is seriously called for. If you can figure a way to fix that without kicking anybody out then let’s hear it quick.
Hobble said:
Well, it’s more of a question of "If’ other than “when”. But if it did happen, I’d just choose not to participate.

Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, and to treat others the way you would like to be treated. I’m sure that you would never want to have your beliefs censored, or your opinions silenced, so why would you want to do that to someone else?
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It’s one thing to express one’s opinions and another to do so in such a massive way (like the Blasphemy Challenge) that it blows it up to the proportion that cannot be ignored. Seriously, go type things like ‘Religion’ or ‘Jesus’ in the search box and take a look at what comes up on the first page. There’s a strong, firm line between turning the other cheek and letting someone push you around.

P.S.

As to liberal media. You think news networks are the only things that make up the media? Go read lifestyle mags or watch TV shows geared towards the youth. It’s quite obvious that conservative values such as pro-life and pro-family are considered the values of ‘bigots’.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
True and I never said anything on this thread that explicitly stated as such. Still, you cannot deny that the high atheist population on YouTube does in fact render the whole site unfriendly to religious users regardless if whether or not the user plans on making religious vids. You should also know very well that the high atheist population will make it difficult to promote any and all religious (or conservative) values. The danger of that is because YouTube is a popular video site. If atheism gains the popular opinion on the topic of religion (and I think it already has), I don’t think I’d wanna see how that will extend from the internet to the whole world. I’m not asking for anyone to be banned, but a balance of opinion is seriously called for. If you can figure a way to fix that without kicking anybody out then let’s hear it quick.
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I’d say the best way to balance it, is to try and draw more religious people to Youtube. Why not start here? Start some threads that inform the users of CAF about the atheist bias that Youtube is experiencing, and urge them to join the site.
It’s one thing to express one’s opinions and another to do so in such a massive way (like the Blasphemy Challenge) that it blows it up to the proportion that cannot be ignored. Seriously, go type things like ‘Religion’ or ‘Jesus’ in the search box and take a look at what comes up on the first page. There’s a strong, firm line between turning the other cheek and letting someone push you around.
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Well that’s the point of the Blasphemy Challenge though, to make it so that Atheist opinions weren’t ignored. There’s nothing wrong with hearing an Atheist opinion on religion. There are many Atheists that feel strongly that their beliefs are right, just as the people here feel strongly that their beliefs are right. It’s important for anyone to be able to have that confidence in their beliefs.

I think turning the other cheek doesn’t necessarily mean that you will let people push you around. It speaks for taking the higher ground. Turning the other cheek when someone criticizes your religion shows that you have confidence in your in your beliefs. But an attempt to silence those criticisms lowers you to a level of bitterness, it shows an insecurity in your beliefs.
P.S.
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As to liberal media. You think news networks are the only things that make up the media? Go read lifestyle mags or watch TV shows geared towards the youth. It’s quite obvious that conservative values such as pro-life and pro-family are considered the values of ‘bigots’.
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Alright, I will look it up. I don’t watch tv other than the news, but I usually get my news from the internet instead of television.
 
Hobble said:
I’d say the best way to balance it, is to try and draw more religious people to Youtube. Why not start here? Start some threads that inform the users of CAF about the atheist bias that Youtube is experiencing, and urge them to join the site.
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Tried that and heck, I’ve seen others already tried before me. I still don’t see a mass exodus to YouTube anytime soon. Personally (and I will honestly admit here and now that I am also guilty of this) forums like CAF have actually become sanctuaries from sites such as YouTube who have been overrun with disrespectful militant atheists (and a few crazy fundamentalists every now and then but that’s a different story). Why don’t you try? Perhaps you’ll have more luck and all the better given that you value freedom of speech so much plus you obviously don’t like this imbalance just as much as I do.
Hobble said:
Well that’s the point of the Blasphemy Challenge though, to make it so that Atheist opinions weren’t ignored. There’s nothing wrong with hearing an Atheist opinion on religion.
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There’s nothing wrong with that. What’s wrong is the side effect of summoning all atheists to YouTube and riling them up to wage war against theists (seriously, you have to be hopelessly blind to deny that).
Hobble said:
I think turning the other cheek doesn’t necessarily mean that you will let people push you around. It speaks for taking the higher ground. Turning the other cheek when someone criticizes your religion shows that you have confidence in your in your beliefs. But an attempt to silence those criticisms shows lowers your to their same bitter level, it shows an insecurity in your beliefs.
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I told you, I am seeing your point about censorship being a bad idea. But I just cannot ignore the great difficulty in achieving the alternative that you proposed. Perhaps people like you could help find the solution to the problem of YouTube (along with many other sites that had been overrun in the same manner) because I sir have had it.
 
I don’t have a problem with an atheist or other challenging or questioning our Catholic faith. As St. Bernadette said to a bishop who came to question her about her visions, “I was directed to tell you the story, not to convince you.”

I do have a problem when anyone of any belief system desecrates what his holy to another. This is not freedom. This is an abuse of freedom. Freedom was not meant to be used as a means to deliberately offend.

JR 🙂
 
I’ve just been skimming through and see some posts where people are saying “just ignore it”. I for one can’t. The problem that I have with the situation is not that they are expressing their opinions, but that they are desecrating our Lord! That is not something to be taken lightly. He died for us, don’t we have the responsibility of at least sticking up for Him? I’ve seen a ton of anti-Catholic mumbo jumbo on the likes of YouTube, GodTube, CAF whatever, but those were merely words. What these people are doing is beyond ignoring. Let people talk all the **** they want about Catholocism, Christianity, Judaisim, what have you, but when they desecrate our Lord Jesus and put it out there for everyone to see, you bet your butt I’m going to try to do something about it!
 
JReducation said:
I do have a problem when anyone of any belief system desecrates what his holy to another. This is not freedom. This is an abuse of freedom. Freedom was not meant to be used as a means to deliberately offend.

JR 🙂
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Freedom (of speech, in this case) as it is defined by the laws of our country and by the natural laws used more globally could definitely be said to be meant to be used as a means to offend (to an extent, fighting words excluded). If it were not, then there would be no need to legally define it in the first place. If everybody agreed and nobody ever insulted anybody else, why would we bother to define freedom of speech at all?

Happily for you, this also protects your right to have a petition, and to submit that petition to Youtube. Of course, if it ever succeeded (highly unlikely, given the statistical makeup of Youtube users), a counter petition would, again, be protected. As somebody earlier pointed out, atheists far outweigh Catholics on Youtube, and I wouldn’t put any money that you weren’t planning to burn anyway on those videos disappearing for any length of time, if ever.
 
Phixional_Ninja said:
Freedom (of speech, in this case) as it is defined by the laws of our country and by the natural laws used more globally could definitely be said to be meant to be used as a means to offend (to an extent, fighting words excluded). If it were not, then there would be no need to legally define it in the first place. If everybody agreed and nobody ever insulted anybody else, why would we bother to define freedom of speech at all?

Happily for you, this also protects your right to have a petition, and to submit that petition to Youtube. Of course, if it ever succeeded (highly unlikely, given the statistical makeup of Youtube users), a counter petition would, again, be protected. As somebody earlier pointed out, atheists far outweigh Catholics on Youtube, and I wouldn’t put any money that you weren’t planning to burn anyway on those videos disappearing for any length of time, if ever.
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I understand where you’re coming from and where you’re going with this. Since this is a Catholic forum it is appropriate to use the parameters that the Church gives us regarding freedom.

In many of her documents the Church defends religious freedom, but at the same time it condemns abuse of freedom. The violation of charity or the violation of the sacred constitutes an abuse of freedom.

Even in civil law you may not slander someone or you can end up in court. There are some situations where you can even be accused of assault.

It is not a new concept to say that freedom of speech is abused and that such abuse cannnot be tolerated by a civilized society.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
JReducation said:
I understand where you’re coming from and where you’re going with this. Since this is a Catholic forum it is appropriate to use the parameters that the Church gives us regarding freedom.

In many of her documents the Church defends religious freedom, but at the same time it condemns abuse of freedom. The violation of charity or the violation of the sacred constitutes an abuse of freedom.
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Fair enough. I don’t pretend to be knowledgeable regarding the Church’s perspective on the concept of freedom. However, given that this discussion revolves around action outside of these forums, and outside of the Church, I think it is important to take into account the definitions of freedom that others might apply to the situation.
JReducation said:
Even in civil law you may not slander someone or you can end up in court. There are some situations where you can even be accused of assault.

It is not a new concept to say that freedom of speech is abused and that such abuse cannnot be tolerated by a civilized society.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
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This is again true, but I do not think applicable to the situation. In a society that allows freedom of religion, no religion can be declared true under the law, and therefor no expression regarding that religion can be declared slander.

What’s more applicable is the concept of fighting words. One may not deliberately incite another to violence through expression. I won’t deny that those Youtube videos draw close to the line on that (not implying that Christians are more or less inclined towards violence than anybody else, I just recognize that those videos really are hateful to you). If he were to perform those acts right outside a church, I think he’d be in danger of legitimate legal action. Fighting words can only apply though, if they are being directed at you and you cannot avoid them. Posting something on Youtube does not mean you have to watch it, and the fact that its mere existence offends does not make it illegal.
 
Phixional_Ninja said:
Fair enough. I don’t pretend to be knowledgeable regarding the Church’s perspective on the concept of freedom. However, given that this discussion revolves around action outside of these forums, and outside of the Church, I think it is important to take into account the definitions of freedom that others might apply to the situation.

This is again true, but I do not think applicable to the situation. In a society that allows freedom of religion, no religion can be declared true under the law, and therefor no expression regarding that religion can be declared slander.

What’s more applicable is the concept of fighting words. One may not deliberately incite another to violence through expression. I won’t deny that those Youtube videos draw close to the line on that (not implying that Christians are more or less inclined towards violence than anybody else, I just recognize that those videos really are hateful to you). If he were to perform those acts right outside a church, I think he’d be in danger of legitimate legal action. Fighting words can only apply though, if they are being directed at you and you cannot avoid them. Posting something on Youtube does not mean you have to watch it, and the fact that its mere existence offends does not make it illegal.
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Fair enough, posting something on youtube is not illegal (some things are), but this is not one of them.

However, do you remember a few weeks ago someone created a piece of “art” with a frog on a cross? I believe it was a frog.

The Vatican came out in a rage and demanded that the piece not be exhibited because it is a sacrilage. If we are Catholics, then we must follow the Church’s lead on these issues, not the Constitution’s. If the Church calls the people of the world to accountability on a piece of art such as this one, why can’t it call people to accountability on descrating the Eucharist, the Quran, the Torah or any other object of religious faith?

When the British artist drew the cartoons of Muhammed and the Muslims were offended, it got the world’s attention. Even the Catholic Church defended the Muslims’ indignation, at the same time the Church called for restraint, because some people wanted to do violence to the cartoonist.

These may be fighting words and the Church never calls us to physical violence, but she does lead the way in open confrontation and open condemnation of any form of religious prejudice or desecration.

This is the example that Catholics must follow. For Catholics to hide behind the “Constitution says” is a cop-out. The Constitution does not overrule the Gospel or moral law. If it did we’d have a huge problem in the world, because every country has a constittution and each constitution has its immoral slants.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
These are great news! It worked! It worked! =)

Especially I smiled at this quote:
The petition spread like wildfire. America Needs Fatima webmaster Joseph Ritchie said: “I never saw so many people sign a petition so fast. They came in from all over the world, even Russia.” <<
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I was spreading the word about that petition in Russia and I’m glad we helped a bit 8)
 
As many of you might know, there have been many videos on youtube involving the eucharist being profaned and desecrated.
The youtube user responsible for these blasphemies goes by the user name “fsmdude”. here is his channel:

youtube.com/user/fsmdude

Its so sick what he’s doing. But here’s the good news. The Catholic activist organization “America needs fatima” has started a petition to end these terrible sacriligious.

Follow this link to sign petition:

americaneedsfatima.org/yt/?sc=e0005.eml1.link2

WE NEED YOUR HELP!!!

Thanks and God Bless
 
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